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Author Topic: Chiron FZ12 on its way sometime soon(ish)  (Read 193101 times)

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Offline Hood

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Re: Chiron FZ12 on its way sometime soon(ish)
« Reply #70 on: October 30, 2012, 06:59:40 PM »
That was the main contactors, rated at 90 amps and they look like the originals so must have been happy being warm ;D
Hood

Offline Hood

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Re: Chiron FZ12 on its way sometime soon(ish)
« Reply #71 on: October 31, 2012, 02:43:04 PM »
Managed to hook up air to the machine today and manually operated all the solenoids. The one I wasnt sure about is indeed an air blast to clean the tool being clamped. That is great news for me as it means I can parallel it to the tool changer up output and it will save me having to buy an extra output module for the PLC :)
There are quite a few leaks but nothing major and most at this time seem to be from pipe connections. I will be replacing all the pipework anyway so hopefully that will cure the leaks.

Hood

Offline Hood

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Re: Chiron FZ12 on its way sometime soon(ish)
« Reply #72 on: October 31, 2012, 03:03:50 PM »
Pic attached of the wiring I managed to get done today, all that is left to do for this part is run the power to the PLC, the serial cable and 24v feeds to the relay contacts.
I am likely going to have the motherboard in the control panel along with one of the CSMIO MPG modules, that will mean I have to run a long serial cable there and a cable from the MPG module to the CSMIO main controller back in the cabinet but doing it that way means I dont have to run long monitor leads, keyboard and trackball leads etc so its the best option I think.
Hood
Re: Chiron FZ12 on its way sometime soon(ish)
« Reply #73 on: November 01, 2012, 09:29:20 AM »
I guess the best way to reduce my ignance is to ask ignant questions. :-[

I found your DirectLogic PLC's website and looked around a bit but am still clueless other than the fact that if I ever get smart enough to need one, that's the place to go to save my money!

I don't have any experience at all in industrial automation so am curious about what it does and how you control it with Mach.  Got a dumbed-down explanation of what it does and how you make it do it?

Thanks!
Milton from Tennessee ya'll.

Offline Chaoticone

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Re: Chiron FZ12 on its way sometime soon(ish)
« Reply #74 on: November 01, 2012, 10:00:35 AM »
Hood, glad that was for the tool blow off, that's great! 

Dickey, the PLC is a Programmable Logic Controller. Think of them as relays you can turn on and off with software rather than wires.  Hood is going to to have his handle the tool changes on this machine.  Mach will send a signal to the PLC via serial that simply says get tool #XX.  The PLC will get the tool and put it in the spindle and then send a signal back to Mach via serial that says (done) "OK, the tool you requested is in the spindle and ready to run.  Mach will continue form there.  The advantages to this are many IMO.  One is that Mach can be performing other task such as running the tool path while the PLC is getting other things ready to change the tool.  Also, PLCs are rock solid.  They can last a very long time and do the same thing over and over perfectly.  You can get different modules for different types of signals too.  Different voltages, AC/DC, even high speed outputs to do things as drive a stepper or servo.  Analog inputs and outputs booth voltage and miliamp............. they are very versatile.  The list goes on and on.

Correct me if I'm wrong Hood.

Brett 
;D If you could see the things I have in my head, you would be laughing too. ;D

My guard dog is not what you need to worry about!
Re: Chiron FZ12 on its way sometime soon(ish)
« Reply #75 on: November 01, 2012, 10:30:44 AM »
Cool, thanks Brett.  I saw that the PLC comes with software to set it up so using that you tell it what input signals to look for and what you want the outputs to do?  Sounds like a little standalone computer that can do many and wonderful things as long as you configure it properly.  Nifty, that.

Hopefully Hood will touch on what the toolchanger looks for to do its job and how he sets it up later on when he gets around to it.  (Not that I have a toolchanger on my ORAC....yet. ;D )
Milton from Tennessee ya'll.

Offline Hood

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Re: Chiron FZ12 on its way sometime soon(ish)
« Reply #76 on: November 01, 2012, 11:32:37 AM »
Brett has explained it pretty well :)
I will maybe add that in the ladder within the PLC you can set up "virtual" relay  contacts, timers etc, And  them, Or them etc, very versatile.
 A lot of what a PLC does can be done with Brains or VB script within Mach but the PLC  is, as Brett says, rock solid, industrial quality and takes the load away from the computer for repetitive tasks. Add to that you only need one cable to communicate to Mach (serial or Ethernet) and that you can input different voltages it makes integrating things like 24v switches,relays etc a breeze.

Most industrial machines have PLCs, either built into the controller itself or a standalone one.

Tooolchangers are all different so their ladders can look vastly different, for example my lathe one uses timers in the ladder, the one I am doing for the Chiron is just straight I/O.  I will post a section of the ladder I have done for this toolchanger tonight when I get home..

Hood
« Last Edit: November 01, 2012, 11:39:13 AM by Hood »
Re: Chiron FZ12 on its way sometime soon(ish)
« Reply #77 on: November 01, 2012, 01:35:47 PM »
...tonight when I get home.
You go home at night?  With all the problems you solve on the forum and all the "real" work you get done I visualized a lumpy couch in the corner of your shop with a pile of meat pie boxes and Belhaven bottles stacked up beside it!:)
Milton from Tennessee ya'll.

Offline mc

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Re: Chiron FZ12 on its way sometime soon(ish)
« Reply #78 on: November 01, 2012, 02:23:54 PM »
Belhaven? That's far too expensive for somebody from above the Tay ;D

Offline Hood

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Re: Chiron FZ12 on its way sometime soon(ish)
« Reply #79 on: November 01, 2012, 03:17:25 PM »
Well any alcohol is too expensive for me, I dont touch the stuff ;D

Ok here is an explanation of the ladder in the PLC for the Chirons toolchanger, it is a lot harder to explain in writing than it is to actually do in the ladder ;D.

Inputs to PLC
There are 28 inputs in total

There are 2 prox switches on each tool cylinder, one for up and one for down. So 24 of them
.
There are also two prox switches on the cylinders that raise and lower the whole tool cage

There is one on the tool  clamping cylinder to indicate that it has unclamped.

I also have an input from my spindle drive to indicated spindle zero speed. That is settable in the drive to come on at whatever speed I choose and will likely be around 50rpm as the changer actually needs some rotation to engage the spring loaded dog into the tool holder.

Outputs from PLC
There are 16 Outputs, actually 17 bit the air clast I have just connected to the Toolchanger Up relay, so both will operate at the same time.

There are 4 rungs in this ladder for each tool and below you will see them.
The first rung goes like this
Tool 1 Signal From Mach is seen so the rung starts, when the signal from the drive indicates the spindle speed has dropped sufficiently it closes then the next two are OR’d, they are Tool 1 Up Prox and Cage Up Prox, however you will notice I have then as Normally Closed contacts in the ladder, that means that they will allow the ladder to complete if there are not any signals from them, i.e. if tool 1 was down then that contact would open.
So Tool 1 is Up so the NC contact is closed, the Tool cage is Up so at this point that contact is open. So we now have a complete path to the Solenoid output to unclamp the tool.
It unclamps which closes the contact below which is the Unclamped prox and the Tool is Up so the Tool Down contact next in the rung being a normally closed contact allows that part of the ladder to complete which means the Cage Down solenoid is activated.
In the next part the cage down prox is seen so it close.. The next  part is looking at all the tool prox switches, they are in the ladder as NC so if all tools are up there will be no passage through to the output as all these contacts would be open. That is fine as if no tools are down there is no need to operate the Tool 1-12 solenoids. If however one tool is down then that would be a closed contact and allow that section of the ladder to complete and the Tool 1-12 Up solenoid would be operated output would be active.

Now to Rung 2.
We have the tool call from Mach and the Spindle Zero speed signal like before so they are closed, cage down and unclamped likewise. The Tool 1-12 Up Output is a NC contact, that means that this rung cant complete until all tools are up and the outputs has been switched off. It will be off as all tolls should now be up and because of that the output will not get power due to the part of the rung being shut off (NC contacts for Tool 1, 2 etc Up Prox being seen) So that contact is closed now and allows you to move onto the next, this is just an added safety, I have all Tool up prox inputs on that line, if one is not up then the rung cant complete. I have deleted them from the ladder so it able to be viewed in the pic and only have the first two but they will be added back in after I finish typing this ;D Anyway that rung completes so the Tool 1 Down Solenoid operates.

Now onto the next rung. Tool 1 signal from Mach, Zero Spindle speed are closed and when tool 1 prox is seen then that closes, the other tool up proxs are closed because the tools are up (again I have deleted them to allow me to get the pic on screen) and the rung completes and the tool cage Up solenoid operates.

Now if we go back to the first rung you will see a few things have happened.
First thing was, as mentioned before, Tool 1-12 solenoid was shut off as the tools were all up.
The rung above was also shut off when  Tool 1 prox down was seen.
In the first part of  rung 1 the Tool 1 Down NC contact is now open because Tool 1 is down but as I have the cage Up Prox as a NC it is still activating the tool unclamp solenoid but as the cage has now just been sent up that closes and the tool now gets clamped.
That is the toolchange complete and the only thing wee need to do now is tell mach so it can shut off the tool call signal and then carry on with the machining.
Rung 4 does that, Cage is up, Tool Unclamp signal is not seen, tool 1 down prox is seen so the rung is complete and the signal is sent to Mach, the toolchange macro in Mach  has been waiting for this so now it sees it it shuts off the tool call then tells Mach to continue.

All of the above will happen in something like 1 second or less, shame it took me 30 mins to type it and probably a lot longer for you to read ;D
Hood
« Last Edit: November 01, 2012, 03:22:16 PM by Hood »