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Author Topic: BT30 spindle from scratch - with power drawbar and ATC of course  (Read 408845 times)

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Offline simpson36

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Re: BT30 spindle from scratch - with power drawbar and ATC of course
« Reply #360 on: December 16, 2012, 05:41:36 AM »
. . .  I just got the Chiron changer working from Mach a few days ago, still not ordered the controller yet, that will have to wait until the new year :(
Hood

It is working, but you don't have the controller yet? How does this happen?  What did I miss  ???

Mach is talking to my PLC :)
Got it fully working today, few days back I jumpered a wire to the Tool 9 coil so it will now raise and today I got the cylinder/prox's and arm fitted to Tool 10 and arm to tool 7. Only thing I have to do now is make up some doors for a couple of the holders, using tape on one at the moment ;D
Heres a vid of all 12 tools being called, http://youtu.be/oJ8KAuzgSjE
Forgot to screw the damper on the cylinder of tool 10 so it comes down with a clunk but I think I might just manage to get my hand in to damp it, if not I will drop the cylinder and get it done as I dont like it hitting the end so fast.

Hood

Very  8)   Now just add remote control and you can keep your tools anywhere . . . .

Offline simpson36

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Re: BT30 spindle from scratch - with power drawbar and ATC of course
« Reply #361 on: December 16, 2012, 06:12:20 AM »
I just measured the swing on mine.  Are you sitting down?  

213 degrees from carousel pickup to spindle. Carousel pickup to the arm 'parking pot' is another 37 degrees.

Total swing 250 degrees!  :o  I doubt I could even articulate that much swing.

140 degrees would be no problem though, if you wanted to add that. Would be very simple and give you close to full power ate each end of the swing.  

What processor are you using to control the sequence and read sensors?   ( Speaking of processing, I have a lot of questions about your Kflop project. Is there a thread going on that?)

Steve,

Nope, you're not going to do 213 degrees without a 4-bar linkage.  I considered that approach, but it's too difficult to design to get the desired motion.

I'm using the term 'articulated' generically. We're likely talking about the same thing; common example would be this hoe bucket. Total sweep on the swing arm is actually 250 degrees. I'm not sure if that is doable even with such a linkage. Certainly 140 degrees would be no problem. Early on I had an articulated arm design, but at that point the rotation was something like 190 degrees. Later the sweep increased to 250 degrees total, but by then I had elected to go with a motor and transmission for other reasons, so I never looked into it.




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Right now, it's running entirely on the KFlop, but I'll be moving it to an Arduino shortly.  Actually, I'm moving most of my external devices (coolant, PDB, ATC, pendant, control panel) to a network of Arduinos.  It will really cut down on I/O usage on the KFlop, and the amount of wiring in the whole systems.


I will use an Arduino also. I just got a shipment of them in for another project so I just 'threw another shrimp on the barbie'. I use the highest model which has three serial ports built in, and I use all of them. So far as I know, there is no arbitration built into the RS232 standard, so you will have your hands full using it in the way you intend . .  at least it seems that way to me. Why did you choose RS232 over USB or Ethernet?

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Ask away on the KFlop.  No thread on that topic.  Wouldn't really belong here on the ArtSoft forum, given that I'm using my own home-grown CNC controller app, rather than Mach3.

Regards,
Ray L.

My questions would be limited (at this time) to using the Kflop with MACH as an alternative to the Smoothstepper using Kflops's MACH plug in. For beter or worse, I am pretty much married to MACH at this point.  :'( If you have not used the Kflop in that manner, then I have no further questions, your honor.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2012, 06:19:14 AM by simpson36 »

Offline simpson36

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Re: BT30 spindle from scratch - with power drawbar and ATC of course
« Reply #362 on: December 16, 2012, 06:24:32 AM »
"DANGER Robin Hood DANGER"

(;-) TP

Looks like Will Robinson sold the robot. I would have kept the robot and sold Dr. Smith . . .

Offline simpson36

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Re: BT30 spindle from scratch - with power drawbar and ATC of course
« Reply #363 on: December 16, 2012, 06:31:52 AM »

Right now, it's running entirely on the KFlop, but I'll be moving it to an Arduino shortly. 

Ray L.

OK, then the  game is still on. 8)

Contest rules say final form including control and all sensors. No tortoise in sight yet, but I have the scent.

Re: BT30 spindle from scratch - with power drawbar and ATC of course
« Reply #364 on: December 16, 2012, 10:29:05 AM »
Steve,

"Articulated" and "4-bar" are actually different animals.  4-bar refers to a specific type of linkage that is simple (made of, surprisingly, 4 bars each with pivots at each end, and those pivots connecting them all together.   Googling "4-bar linkage" will give you many examples.  This class of linkage, properly designed, is capable of producing nearly ANY motion profile desired.  But, as I said, the design of such a linkage for complex motion profiles can be quite difficult.  Introductory 4-bar design was the topic of an entire semester-long class when I was in college.  Obviously an articulated arm is a viable option, but an expensive one, due to the extra joints, and extra actuators/sensors required.  I ruled that approach out on mine pretty early.  I'm sure it makes good sense on yours.

I used RS232 because it's simple, cheap, robust, and is built into virtually every MCU on the planet.  USB is too finicky, not good over any distance, and NOT good in a noisy environment.  RS232 will handle all of those easily.  For what I'm doing, high speed is not required.  I created a very simple "network" protocol that allows me to have up to 10 devices in the network, with a combination of "star" and "ring" connections, for maximum flexibility.  The KFlop is the network "Master", and all other devices are, essentially, intelligent "slaves".  Right now, I've implemented on controller that handles the spindle, coolant, and air blasts, and also acts as the network "hub", since the KFlop has only one serial port.  The pendant and control panel devices are on the "ring" side of the network, and the PDB and ATC are on the "star" side.  The KFlop can simply send a serial command that says, for example, "Turn on Flood", "Load Tool #5", etc., and each device does what it's told, and reports back status to the KFlop.  This makes the only connections to the KFlop for all these peripherals the serial link, and all the I/Os, control logic, relays, sensors, etc. move to the MCU on each peripheral.   Since all are running the same "network stack", 90% of the code on each device is identical, with only the part that implements each controllers unique functionality being different for each.  The code is very simple, and very robust, and can easily be ported to virtually any MCU.

Re: Mach and KFlop - I did do a complete implementation of Mach3 with KFlop, but abandoned it once I got my own app going back last January.  I was able to do this in such a way that 95% of the code was common between my Mach3 implementation, my KMotionCNC implementation, and what I now use for my own app.  So, I could, if I wanted, resurrect Mach3 probably in a few hours.  I just haven't wanted to....  Anyway, if you have questions or need help getting it going under Mach3, don't hesitate to ask.  And, of course, you're welcome to my code if you want it.  

Regards,
Ray L.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2012, 10:32:42 AM by HimyKabibble »
Regards,
Ray L.
Re: BT30 spindle from scratch - with power drawbar and ATC of course
« Reply #365 on: December 16, 2012, 01:25:14 PM »

Right now, it's running entirely on the KFlop, but I'll be moving it to an Arduino shortly. 

Ray L.

OK, then the  game is still on. 8)

Contest rules say final form including control and all sensors. No tortoise in sight yet, but I have the scent.



Hey!  No changing the rules mid-game!  :-)  The dedicated controller was not part of the original design, and won't be completed for a while, as its part of a larger effort to completely re-build my E-Box, which will be timed by availability of a custom BOB being designed by a friend.

Regards,
Ray L.
Regards,
Ray L.

Offline BR549

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Re: BT30 spindle from scratch - with power drawbar and ATC of course
« Reply #366 on: December 16, 2012, 01:54:28 PM »
Ray has already WON the competion. I just need an address to send him a beer of his choice (;-)



(;-)TP

Offline simpson36

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Re: BT30 spindle from scratch - with power drawbar and ATC of course
« Reply #367 on: December 16, 2012, 02:34:44 PM »

Right now, it's running entirely on the KFlop, but I'll be moving it to an Arduino shortly. 

Ray L.

OK, then the  game is still on. 8)

Contest rules say final form including control and all sensors. No tortoise in sight yet, but I have the scent.



Hey!  No changing the rules mid-game!  :-)  The dedicated controller was not part of the original design, and won't be completed for a while, as its part of a larger effort to completely re-build my E-Box, which will be timed by availability of a custom BOB being designed by a friend.

Regards,
Ray L.

Contest rules from October 14th:

Contest rules: everything does not have to be powder coated or otherwise 'spiffy',  but the automatic tool change has to be . . well . .  automatic,  and under its own power. No manual operation and no  . .  uh . .  temporary actuators . . . 

However, other  . .  'favored contestants' will be allowed to demonstrate the completed ATC on a totally non functional mock up of the milling machine head . . .  because there is no actual mill yet . .  and because he is making the rules. 

Contest winner is responsible for any and all federal, state and local taxes on prizes, which may include a case of the contestant's favorite beer  . .  and bragging rights.


Therefor I maintain that the game is still on. The A in ATC is for Automatic . . not Almost. Until one device is competed and functioning automatically in final form, no winner.

Besides, I don't want the contest to be over . . this is way too much fun.  ;)

Offline simpson36

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Re: BT30 spindle from scratch - with power drawbar and ATC of course
« Reply #368 on: December 16, 2012, 03:08:06 PM »
Steve,

"Articulated" and "4-bar" are actually different animals.  4-bar refers to a specific type of linkage . . . .


Articulated is just another way of saying 'jointed' so I would submit that a 4bar is a specific type of articulation . . although there are numerous types of 4 bar arrangements, so I would then use the term 'specific' only in a general way. How's that for an oxymoron?

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  I created a very simple "network" protocol  . . . .

There is the answer. I have not the time nor talent to create a protocol, so I shall have to be satisfied to huddle with the rest of the masses.

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Anyway, if you have questions or need help getting it going under Mach3, don't hesitate to ask.  And, of course, you're welcome to my code if you want it. 

Regards,
Ray L.

Much appreciated.

I'm looking to get rid of a USB smoothstepper and early reports on the new Ethernet version were all good, but now it is starting to look a bit like the earlier incarnation with problems going unfixed for extended periods. Kflop seems to be on top of things and responsive to questions.

On topic, of particular interest is the Kflop is extensible and may be a better portal for the ATC operational data than trying to communicate with MACH. I like the idea of having Kflop orchestrate separate CPUs which each have their own process to control. Kflops user code interface is where I would seek whatever advice you might be willing to provide, but the prerequisite of course is to have the Kflop.

To that end, initially all I really need to hear is (regarding the MACH plug-in) 'It works' or 'It works except for this bug, that anomaly, this workaround, etc' (in which case I would pass).

Your endorsement would be enough for me to acquire a Kflop and invest some time in it.

Offline BR549

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Re: BT30 spindle from scratch - with power drawbar and ATC of course
« Reply #369 on: December 16, 2012, 04:09:43 PM »
Programmers ya just gotta like um.

(;-) TP