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Author Topic: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)  (Read 166479 times)

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Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
« Reply #180 on: July 14, 2017, 07:22:59 PM »
Any progress on a demo license for the mach4 plugin? I have been using Mach3 with a DMC-1880 for a few years and have some time to play with Mach4 upgrade (demo).
I know it is not supported but I have tested contour mode with the DMC-1880 and it has worked smooth. It did conflict with my probing macros, that's why I thought it would be good to test on a fresh install of Mach4.
Thanks,
Jon
Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
« Reply #181 on: February 05, 2019, 05:48:08 PM »
Tony,

Unfortunately, there is no demo version of the Mach 4 plugin.  I will see if I can implement that.

Nice work on that variable J head!  You managed to get rid of all the noisy parts quite nicely.  :)  i have replaced so many of those bushings i lost count.  I much prefer a pulley J head because of the noise those things will start making.  And they will get noisy pretty damned fast.  Just watch the spindle bearings and make sure they don't heat too much at those speeds!

Steve

Steve,

It has been a while since I have checked in to the forum.  I see that much progress has occurred with the Mach4 Galil plugin, but that the DMC 2143 has not been tested yet.  I am still willing to do this if you can release a demo version of the plugin.  You will understand that I am unwilling to buy the plugin until I am sure that it will work. 
Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
« Reply #182 on: July 03, 2019, 03:20:33 PM »
Steve,

I'd like to refresh this topic on the Mach 4 Galil plugin working with DMC-2100 or 2130 controllers over Ethernet & TCP/IP.  I am in the process of helping a friend trying to implement the Mach4 Galil plugin with the Mach4 Hobby version and Windows 10 OS.

We can ping the DMC on a local, isolated network with the PC but it is not discovered by the Galil plugin.

Additionally, when the plugin was downloaded using the IE browser from the Arsoft download page it came down as a ZIP file extension, the contents of which did not contain a file with the .m4plugw extension but rather .m4pw along with 2 .DLL files.  Whether we changed the plugin extension or not, the error when attempting to add this plugin was "not a valid zip file format" or words to that effect.

That's when I decided to just select the ZIP file in the Plugin "Add" process and it then it loaded.

I download the Mach4 Galil plugin with another PC and then and only then was the downloaded file named "mcGalil.m4plugw".

BTW: The Galil is used in conjuction with a ICM 1900 connected to two Kollmorgen drivers and AKM AC servos in a X,Z axis solution.  The DMC-2130 can be configured and operated successfully by the Galil Tools software.

Can you or anyone shed some light on this?

Much appreciated,

airnocker
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« Last Edit: July 03, 2019, 03:26:28 PM by airnocker »
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Offline smurph

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Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
« Reply #183 on: July 03, 2019, 08:04:43 PM »
The Mach 4 plugin REQUIRES that the Galil GDK be installed (to get the GCAPS service) on 64 bit machines.  This is most likely why the plugin doesn't discover the Galil.  You will have to remove all Galil config entries in the profile's Machine.ini, make sure that the GCAPS service is installed and running, and then try to configure the Galil plugin again. 

However, only 41x3 and 40x0 controllers are officially supported with the Mach 4 Plugin.  None of us have any of the older controllers to fully test it out.  So your mileage may vary.  And we really don't have any plans to try and support them.  They may work, but they might not.  :( 

m4plugw is what we call a plugin package.  It is basically a zip file.  You can rename it to .zip and open it up.  Or you can use it to install the plugin from the plugins tab in the control config dialog.  Similarly, if you change the name of a .zip file to m4plugw.  Vice verse.   

Steve
Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
« Reply #184 on: July 03, 2019, 08:38:36 PM »
The Mach 4 plugin REQUIRES that the Galil GDK be installed (to get the GCAPS service) on 64 bit machines.  This is most likely why the plugin doesn't discover the Galil.  You will have to remove all Galil config entries in the profile's Machine.ini, make sure that the GCAPS service is installed and running, and then try to configure the Galil plugin again. 

However, only 41x3 and 40x0 controllers are officially supported with the Mach 4 Plugin.  None of us have any of the older controllers to fully test it out.  So your mileage may vary.  And we really don't have any plans to try and support them.  They may work, but they might not.  :( 

m4plugw is what we call a plugin package.  It is basically a zip file.  You can rename it to .zip and open it up.  Or you can use it to install the plugin from the plugins tab in the control config dialog.  Similarly, if you change the name of a .zip file to m4plugw.  Vice verse.   

Steve

Steve. thanks for your prompt response! We understand the Mach4 Galil Plugin support caveats and understand the plugin may or may not work with the DMC-2130.  We have no option at the moment but to try it.  I will download the GDK and install it, zero out the Galil config entries from the profile's Machine.ini, then go from there.

On the plugin package renaming the .zip file to .m4plugw....been there, done that and it did not work.  It did like the .zip file though by faking out the 'Add' dialog box to display all files by entering *.* then selecting the .zip file.

I thought it very curious and strange, however, that one computer downloaded the plugin as a .zip package and a different computer downloaded the plugin  as a .m4plugw extension from the same Mach4 Galil Plugin download page.

Again, thanks.

airnocker

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Offline smurph

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Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
« Reply #185 on: July 03, 2019, 11:08:42 PM »
https://www.machsupport.com/ftp/Mach4/Plugins/Galil/mcGalil.zip

That is a newer plugin.  Just unzip the contents into the plugins directory. 

Steve
Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
« Reply #186 on: July 03, 2019, 11:56:59 PM »
https://www.machsupport.com/ftp/Mach4/Plugins/Galil/mcGalil.zip

That is a newer plugin.  Just unzip the contents into the plugins directory. 

Steve

Thanks for clarification.

airnocker

Everything depends on everything else
Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
« Reply #187 on: July 06, 2019, 12:59:29 AM »
Here is an update on our efforts mentioned a few posts back regarding Mach4/Galil Plugin, Galil DMC-2130 with an ICM-1900.

My friend is using a older version of the Galil Tools DTK (I forget what it is called) to configure and run Terminal command line tests, which worked just fine.  It turns out the reason why, when we tried to configure the Mack4 Galil plugin, the DMC's IP address did not appear in the Detected Devices section was because the DMC happened to be powered down (while all other machine electronics were powered up).

Tonight, after running successful tests with the tool's Terminal window, sending commands for ON/OFF tests, changing RPMs of the servos, changing
their RPMs etc, for sure the DMC was powered on.  We opened Mach4, clicked Configure>Plugins>Galil and the DMC magically appeared in the Detected Devices.

We could then select it, ">>" (move it) over to the Registered Devices side, select it on that side and click Edit Settings and were able to access all Galil config tabs and parameters to edit and save a Profile name.

Having read some of smurph's other excellent and informative post here https://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php?topic=26396.msg187197#msg187197 about how the servo's encoder outputs should be connected to the encoder inputs of the DMC/ICM and NOT the servo drive's encoder inputs, in order to the PID filter tuning to be part of the Galil/Mach4 DRO loop for best positional accuracy results, this brought up a new question.

The two servos are Kollmorgen AKMs 3 phase, High Voltage AC driven by their own S200 drives, one for an X-gantry and one for a Z-gantry.  These servos came with encoders with 13 signals associated to the 15 pin D connector.  In addition to the standard A+,A-,B+,B-,Z Index, Z index Reference,+5VDC, +5V Common, there are two Temperature sensing lines and U,X,Z signals for the three phase drive windings.  Now I can see the benefit to the Kollmorgen closed-loop servo drive, encoder speed/position feedback along with having winding feedback and servo temperature monitoring, but with these Kollmorgen AKM servos, can they work properly without the encoder signals connecting back to the S200 drivers?

2nd, are there other HMI CNC machine controllers that Kollmorgen servos and drivers work with besides Mach3/4?

Thanks again for any feedback.


airnocker

Everything depends on everything else
Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
« Reply #188 on: July 06, 2019, 05:57:38 AM »
Hi,

Quote
but with these Kollmorgen AKM servos, can they work properly without the encoder signals connecting back to the S200 drivers?

I'm not familiar with Kollmorgen servos, my experience is with Allen Bradley servos. I suspect that the servos would not, in fact
could not operate without the encoders connected and working.

Leave aside for the moment that how would the drive know when to commutate the stator windings but without the encoder the
drive has no means to determine the rotor position so it cannot then calculate the phase currents necessary to produce
a stator field in phase quadrature to the rotor and produce torque thereby.

It is absolutely fundamental to Field Oriented Control AC servos that the rotor position is known to the drive, be it an encoder
or a resolver. Without rotor position there can be no quadrature stator field. Texas Instruments do a truly excellent
video on Field Oriented Control.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdiZUszYLiA

Modern servos ABSOLUTELY require a matching drive. As such the motion controller can just be open loop step/direction,
it need not be a feedback controller. The servo and servo drive manufacturer does a superb job of matching the servo
and drive feedback loop. In all fairness they do a better job of it than you or I can do and exceed the capabilities of even
top motion controllers like Gallil.

My Allen Bradley servo for instance has thermal parameters such that the drive can model the thermal performance of the
servo. Even more amazingly the servo has piecewise linear magnetic coefficients so the drive can model magnetic saturation
effects which incidentally feed into the thermal model. Such sophistication of thermal and magnetic modeling is
just that much more advanced than any motion controller.

The trend in CNC is that servo and servo drives are getting smarter and smarter.

Once upon a time servo drives were just amplifiers. The motion controller monitored the encoder/resolver; enacted the
feedback loop and outputted a precision analogue voltage to the servo amplifier. The servo drive was dumb, or maybe had
a velocity feedback loop at best.

More recently servo drive itself monitors the encoder/resolver, enacts the feedback loop and drives the servo directly. The motion
controller need only be open loop step/direction type. Think Mach3 and Mach4. The servo drive now has all the feedback
tuning including the thermal and magnetic modeling I've already mentioned. The servo drive is smart.

More recently still with Ethercat, Profinet, CANOpen and others the servo drives are becoming motion controllers in their
own right. Thus you don't have a motion controller at all, your PC becomes the trajectory planner and is the
Ethercat master while each of the Ethercat slaves (each servo drive) does it own motion control. This is called 'distributed
motion control'. It IS THE COMING THING. The servo drive is now smarter than the controller!

When you log onto the Mach forum you may have noticed a video of a Matsura VMC doing a job. What you may not have noticed is
the Mach4 is the trajectory planner with KingStar/Interval Zero RTX64 providing the software to make Mach4 and the PC
an Ethercat master. So that Matsura is running WITHOUT A MOTION CONTROLLER!!!

The days of sophisticated feedback controllers like Hicon and Galill are numbered, why would you bother with expensive
realtime hardware when you just need a little extra software and some Ethercat capable servos?

As I said, the trend is for servo drives to get smarter and smarter......what happens next???

Craig
« Last Edit: July 06, 2019, 05:59:11 AM by joeaverage »
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Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
« Reply #189 on: July 06, 2019, 12:24:52 PM »
Thanks Craig.  My immediate experience is with stepper motor CNC solutions but have closed-loop servo experience in the laser scanning world, so I understand AC or DC servo with or without encoder. feedback.

What you've stated reflects much what I've gleaned reading the manuals on the Kollmorgen S200 series drivers and AKM related servos & encoders.

The need is to use a bipolar + & - 10v analog signal from two Mach4 DRO axes to tell the servos to move.  The Galil DMC-2130 and ICM-1900 were only used as an Ethernet based breakout board solution for these analog signals and travel and home limit switches.

So am I understanding correctly that we do the servo response PID tuning using the Kollmorgen servo/amp tuning software so the driver config parameters are stored/saved and loaded on driver power-up, then use Mach4-to-Galil plugin config to send Step/Dir DRO parameters that ARE the + & - 10v analog drive signals imitating from the DMC to the Kollmorgen drivers? 

And, in this way Mach4 is just the trajectory planner.

airnocker

Everything depends on everything else