Machsupport Forum

Third party software and hardware support forums. => Galil => Topic started by: smurph on April 09, 2009, 05:09:37 PM

Title: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: smurph on April 09, 2009, 05:09:37 PM
NOTICE!!!!!!!   Going forward, I would ONLY recommend DMC-41x3 or DMC-40x0 Ethernet controllers.  Mach 4 will not support older Ethernet or bus based controllers!  You may get them to work but they will not be supported at all.  All development will be for the aforementioned DMC-41x3 or DMC-40x0 controllers only. 

Quote
I wrote this in another thread, but here it is in a quickly accessible place...

Any current Accelera controllers will work.  Stick with the version 7 Galil drivers though.

Any bus based or ethernet Optima controllers will work.  This includes the DMC1700, DMC1800, DMC2100, and DMC2200.  In theory, the DMC2000 (USB) may work as well.  I just don't know if there would be any issues with USB.  But it has all of the other necessary things to work.  Use the version 7 Galil drivers that come with SmartTerm for these controllers.  Older drivers will cause you big time headaches.

The DMC-18x2 econo controllers will also work.  But they don't support binary commands and this will slow things down a bit.  It takes about 350 microseconds for a Galil controller to process an ASCII command.  This time is saved if the controller can accept binary commands.  The Galil plug-in takes advantage of binary commands if the controller is capable.

The DMC-21x3 are like the DMC-18x2 controllers.  They might not work with the Galil plug-in because of the way they handle Data Records.  Big question mark here.
EDIT:  The DMC-21x3 controller will work fine as long as they don't have the 31x3 distributed mode firmware loaded.  If you have a 31x3, simply install the latest and greatest 21x3 firmware and you are good to go.  Also these controllers, while labeled "Econo", will accept binary commands.

There is also an older version of the DMC-21x3 called the DMC-21x2.  The difference is that the x2 controllers use the 100 pin SCSI connector instead of DB base interconnect modules for the x3 models.  So you will have to have ICM-2900s for the DMC-21x2 controllers.

The DMC-3415 and DMC-3425 controllers will not work.  These are 1 or 2 axis ethernet controllers that can be "chained" together to make a distributed controller that has as many as 8 axes.  But the way they do this is through a modified Data Record which is not compatible with the Data Record that the Galil plug-in will want to see. The Data Record is what Mach looks at (via the plug-in) to see if the state of I/O pins and DRO.

DMC-1415 and DMC-1425 controllers will work.  But they are 2 and 1 axis, respectively.

A DMC-3425 can be updated with DMC-1425 firmware and it will work.  But you are stuck with a 2 axis machine.  Same with the 3415 except you will have a 1 axis machine.

The DMC1000 ISA controllers will NOT work.  This is because these controllers do not have a Data Record at all.  They also do not support binary commands.  The Galil plug-in could be modified to support these controllers, but they would most likely be in the SLOW department.  Don't waste your time or money on these controllers for Mach use.

None of the VME based controllers will work.  e.g. the DMC-1300, DMC-300, or DMC-13x8 controllers.  The DMC-300 is ancient and should be discarded immediately.  The DMC-1300 suffers the same "no data record" as the DMC-1000's do.  The DMC-13x8 is an Optima controller, but the Galil windows drivers have no support for these cards at all.  Plus, unless you have a very industrial PC, you will not even have a VME bus, much less a VME bus driver.  I did, however, make a DMC-1348 controller work.  It's just that it's not feasible unless you have a bunch of VME hardware lying around.

None of the DMC-700 series or DMC-1500 series controllers will work.  They are serial communication controllers and they also don't have Data Records.  They would be good for making tool changers though.  Perhaps driven by I/O logic.

Also be aware that many of the Galil controllers that are floating around are special controllers made for an OEM.  Galil provides no support for these controllers.  Most of the time, a firmware update is all that is required to get the controller to work like a normal Galil controller.  But if there is special hardware mods, you will loose.

Steve
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: smurph on June 14, 2009, 12:27:46 AM
The DMC20x0 USB Optima controllers have been tested now and they work fine.

And a word on the Galil Tools drivers... 

Galil Tools and the drivers provided therein do not work with the Mach Galil Plugin.  However, Galil Tools and Smart Term v7 drivers can coexist on the same machine and run Ethernet based controllers.  Since the means of communicating with the Ethernet controllers is the same, both packages will function.  The Galil Tools package installs a different driver for the bus based PCI controllers, along with a different API.  So if you are running a PCI controller, don't install the Galil Tools along with the Smart Term v7 stuff. 

Steve
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: lynnsaunders on July 14, 2009, 11:05:59 PM
The USB versions of the Galil controllers seem to work with the plugin. I have  DMC1540 that uses RS232 for communication. What are the chances this will work when connected using a USB to COM port converter? Or will the plugin talk directly to a com port?
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: kcrouch on July 15, 2009, 08:39:14 AM
I'm afraid that the serial communications are way too slow for smooth operation. There is a post elsewhere on this forum from someone trying to run a 1425 using serial and ending up with poor performance. That all smoothed out when the ethernet was used, which confirms the problem with serial speed. Sorry, but you'll need another controller with faster communication method.
Kenny
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: the-depot on December 07, 2009, 10:16:49 PM
I have a 1842 galil board.  you mentioned a slight delay in processing the ASCII will this be very noticeable in the operation of the control.  The version 7 driver? I see several choices on the Galil website can you give me some guidance as to which one will be best for this board.  Sorry for the basic questions but I am just getting started with the galil conversion.   Thank you for your time. 

Jim
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: smurph on December 07, 2009, 10:39:53 PM
Jim,

You will never notice the ASCII processing.  As it turns out, it's not an issue at all.  You want SmartTERM.  It comes with the Version 7 drivers.  Don't use GalilTools-lite. 

Steve
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: the-depot on December 08, 2009, 07:54:02 AM
Steve

Thank you for your help,  one more Question about firmware for the board.  This board was purchased in 2001 and never used.  Should I update the firmware to the latest version?

Jim
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: kcrouch on December 08, 2009, 09:06:14 AM
Jim,
You should always use the latest Galil firmware for your board. There are corrections and added features that are there for your use at no cost to you.
Kenny
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: the-depot on December 08, 2009, 03:11:16 PM
Kenny

Thank you for your help

Jim
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: the-depot on December 12, 2009, 08:54:31 AM
I have another question.  While reading the manual that came with the 1842 card it said it does accept binary commands.  (Chapter 4 page 41)  Is this a miss print?  or is it true.

Thanks again!
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: kcrouch on December 12, 2009, 10:29:02 AM
Jim,
Yes, the Galil can accept binary commands, but that is of no interest with Mach as the plugin handles all needed communication with the controller. The timing has been worked out so that you will not need to worry about the sending of commands to the Galil.
Regards,
Kenny
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: the-depot on December 13, 2009, 01:15:01 PM
Kenny
Thanks again

Jim
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: amicoeng on January 27, 2010, 01:32:36 PM
I have a Galil 1842 and have all the default inputs already hooked up using an ICM 2900 the extended I/O is hooked up to the Opto 22 expansion racks.
I am using 24 extended inputs and 10 putputs. Can the Mach handle this much I/O ?
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: kcrouch on February 02, 2010, 08:00:15 AM
Yes,
The plugin can handle extended I/O. Please see the Galil plugin PDF on the plug-ins download page for additional information.
Kenny
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: rforney on May 21, 2010, 04:30:22 PM
Just started using a Galil DMC-4080.  I have not connected servos yet, but I did notice that Mach was returning "Unrecognized Command messages".  I read the GalilDebug.txt file, and saw that this occured each time Mach asked the controller for "VT".  Apparently, the DMC-40XX series does not support this command.  I confirmed this on the Galil website.  The 21 series had "VT" listed, but the 40 series did not.

Is there any workaround for this, or is it required that I let the error messages generate and ignore them?
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: rforney on May 21, 2010, 05:19:47 PM
Oops.   Forgot to turn off Linear Interpolation on my settings.
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: knobby on July 05, 2010, 11:42:29 AM
Are you able to use more than one controller on a machine if the axis are not required to be moved synchronously? What would be required to add a second controller?
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: kcrouch on July 05, 2010, 12:24:02 PM
Sorry,
The plugin only supports one Galil board at a time. The selection is included so that you can setup multiple galil controllers for several machines, but you can only run one at a a time, unless you have ethernet controllers and configure them as master slave. But we haven't tested them in that configuration.
Kenny
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: battwell on July 07, 2010, 02:37:13 PM
running a 2280 ethernet controller on mach.
all seems sweet!
however. when i home the axis (any of them) i get error13 not in jog mode in the mach message box(but axis keeps moving fine and homes correctly)

another thing i have found is galil doesnt always pass mach the error message of hitting a limit switch? however this might be because i have  fwd and rev limits connected together as my machine has 1 limit per axis (same switch operated at both ends of travel)
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: Aeroshade on February 02, 2011, 10:08:43 PM
Hello all, I'm having problems getting my DMC-2162 motion card to work with Mach3.

I installed Mach3 (DEMO to see how it works) today and downloaded the Galil plugin. I have installed SmartTERM and the card is registered fine in Windows (IP: 192.168.0.2). It has "Rev 1.0q2" firmware installed (I bought this card about a year ago). I have Window XP (32bit) with service pack 3 (tried it with SP2, but I get the same error), and it is completely updated (at least all the updates I can get from MS).

I get the "Defective Plugin" error, when ever I try to load Mach3. I'm kind of at a loss of what to do, any help would be appreciated!! :)

BTW I'm a turn coat Camsoft user. That software (if you can call it that) has taken away 9months of my life, I'm HOPING that Mach3 will spare me from blowing this machine to... well you know ;)

Thanks,

Aero
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: smurph on February 02, 2011, 11:08:55 PM
That error means that the plugin could not find some support DLL.  The plugin is linked against these Windows system DLLs.  These should all reside in the System32 directory. 

dmc32.dll (SmartTerm)
dmcser32.dll (SmartTerm)
VERSION.dll
KERNEL32.dll
USER32.dll
GDI32.dll
comdlg32.dll
ADVAPI32.dll
COMCTL32.dll
SHLWAPI.dll
ole32.dll
OLEAUT32.dll

Sometimes a bare bones Windows install does not provide all of these DLLs.

Steve
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: battwell on February 03, 2011, 05:43:32 AM
i believe you need a licenced mach 3 to use the galil plugin. smurph???

go for it, its a superb program with galil
my machine running on mach / galil can be seen here
http://www.youtube.com/user/automateanything?feature=mhum#p/a/u/0/dWp__rJURpU
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: Aeroshade on February 03, 2011, 11:21:49 AM

dmc32.dll (SmartTerm)
dmcser32.dll (SmartTerm)
VERSION.dll
KERNEL32.dll
USER32.dll
GDI32.dll
comdlg32.dll
ADVAPI32.dll
COMCTL32.dll
SHLWAPI.dll
ole32.dll
OLEAUT32.dll


Thanks for the responses!! I checked the .DLL's and they are all in the sys32 folder.


Here are some SS of the error.

(http://www.chill-a-hz.com//images/cnc/error1.jpg)

and

(http://www.chill-a-hz.com//images/cnc/error2.jpg)

Do I need Mach3 to be licensed? If so I will get the license, but I was hoping I could test this before I purchased it.

Thanks!!

Aero
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: Aeroshade on February 03, 2011, 11:51:59 AM
I just talked with a tech from Galil, and he confirmed that I have the card registered correctly in Windows. I can use GalilTools to make moves and turn outputs on and off. Is there a certain .NET I need installed on the computer? I have .NET 3.5 SP1 on the box right now. I think I will update it to .NET 4 and see what happens.

Thanks again,

Aero
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: Aeroshade on February 03, 2011, 01:54:09 PM
Not sure if it matters, but I have a DB-28040-5V daughter card installed on the DMC-2162.

Thanks,
Aero
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: battwell on February 03, 2011, 01:56:42 PM
the daughter board wont make any difference.
 i have 2 machines running with 2153 and daughter board
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: Aeroshade on February 03, 2011, 02:11:49 PM
Maybe there is something wrong with the plug in. I tried it on two different computers, XP 2k.

I didn't think the daughter card would make a difference, but thanks for letting me know.... one more thing to cross off the list.

Does it matter about the versions of the plug in and the mach3? All I did was download the latest Mach3 and grabbed the plug in from the plug in section. Since I tried it on two different computers I'm thinking maybe they upgraded Mach3 and the plug in might not be working with it... just a thought.

Thanks,

Aero
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: battwell on February 03, 2011, 02:44:34 PM
i think mine is using .040 which could be downloaded from the archive. here
ftp://machsupport.com/Mach/

if you pm me your email address il send you the plugin im using
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: battwell on February 03, 2011, 02:50:40 PM
i presume you have the controller set ethernet? smarterm on pc

i know there is an issue with drivers on pci cards if you have galil tools drivers on the same pc.
 recommended only smarterm drivers which mach uses to talk to the galil
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: Aeroshade on February 03, 2011, 03:01:00 PM
Sent... and thanks for the help :)
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: Aeroshade on February 03, 2011, 05:15:06 PM
WooT, someone updated the Galil plugin. Thanks works good now!!! OK now to figure out how this works :P


THANKS!!!
Aero
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: Aeroshade on February 04, 2011, 07:23:25 PM
OK, have got almost all my I/O's figured out!! but I'm stumbling on getting the motors to move. I'm working with my A-axis first (rotary less likely to hurt anything if it runs away :)) I have mapped it to W(D) in the "Axis Setup" tab in the Galil plugin. It is a brushed servo so I set the "Galil Axis" to "D" and Motor Type to "Servo Motor".  I have enabled it in Config > Ports & Pins > Motor Outputs. I then go to Config > Motor Tuning and set the counts and the accel. But when I try to up arrow key the motor does not move. I have tried going into MDI and command it to move and I get no movement.

Do I need to set the "Step Pin#" and/or the "Dir Pin#" in the Config > Ports & Pins > Motor Output? The motor is connected to an Advanced Motion Control amp card. I reads the +/- 10v signal. I have read through the forums and can't seem to find the INFO I'm looking for. It seems to me that this is an easy step (since there isn't a lot of INFO on it here), so I must be missing something.

Thanks in advance for all the help :)


Aero
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: battwell on February 04, 2011, 07:33:55 PM
silly question maybe.
have you got enable signal connected on the amplifier? if so set the enable as galil plugin pdf (check on diagnostic screen)
have you set an acceleration number in motor tuning?
either use jog 4 +/- or use midi line and type g0 a360 enter
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: battwell on February 04, 2011, 07:37:52 PM
have you also followed the pdf re mapping  inputs etc?
i presume it moves if directed from smarterm?
you will be able to check the 10v with a multimeter too.
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: Aeroshade on February 04, 2011, 11:15:39 PM
I had it working in Camsoft last week, but I must have something not set right in either the Galil plugin or Mach3 itself. Does the Galil plugin know that it sends the +/-10v to the MOCMDW on the ICM-2900 or do I have to set it to do so? I'm not sure what output number that would be.

I haven't tried it in SmartTerm but I have many times in Galil Tools.


Thanks,
Aero
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: smurph on February 05, 2011, 12:05:19 AM
I don't know why you had problems with the plugin, as it has been at version 4.4 for a good while now.  Neither Kenny nor myself have updated the website.

To run a servo, the plugin needs the motor type to be set to either "servo" or "servo reversed" and the stepper jumpers on the Galil for that axis need to be open.  Also, the KP, KI, and KD parameters need to be burned in the NVRAM.

Verify that you can get axis movement in SmartTerm or Galil Tools before trying to configure the Mach plugin.  Please read the plugin documentation about turning on debug output and send us a GalilDebug.txt file if you continue having problems.

Steve
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: Aeroshade on February 05, 2011, 01:12:45 AM
I don't know why you had problems with the plugin, as it has been at version 4.4 for a good while now.  Neither Kenny nor myself have updated the website.

It was strange, on 2/2/11 I downloaded the plugin and it was around 200+KB, then on 2/3/11 it was 472KB. But it works now!! :)

Verify that you can get axis movement in SmartTerm or Galil Tools before trying to configure the Mach plugin.  Please read the plugin documentation about turning on debug output and send us a GalilDebug.txt file if you continue having problems.

I will do that as soon as I get back to the shop tomorrow.

So just to make sure I leave the "Step Pin#", "Dir Pin#", "Step Port", and "Dir Port", in "Motor Outputs", all at zero right? I was watching one of the videos and he said they shouldn't be left at 0, but that might not be true since I'm using the Galil plugin. I just want to make sure.

Thanks for all the help... Can't wait to play with this, I have been watching the Brains videos and I'm ready to play!!! :)

Aero
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: smurph on February 05, 2011, 10:44:34 AM
None of those step/dir parameters are required.
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: Aeroshade on February 05, 2011, 06:49:20 PM
Well I got my A-axis to move, but it is really jerky in the Motor Tuning window. I tried to reinstall GalilTools to adjust the PID's, but I can't get GalilTools to move the axis anymore. I can turn outputs off and on, but no movement in my A-axis.

Thanks for the help :)

Aero
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: battwell on February 05, 2011, 07:02:57 PM
use smarterm
master rest the galil
reconnect through smarterm and set and burn an ip address
type
kda=1 enter
kpa=1 enter
kia=0 enter
bn enter

that gives you the very basic galil tuning for a axis
change the a for whatever axis your tuning

motor will have minimal damping but should run

now type
 aca1000
dca1000
pra5000
bga

motor should run


Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: Aeroshade on February 05, 2011, 07:15:02 PM
Hope this doesn't post twice :)

Here is my GalilDebug File
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: Aeroshade on February 05, 2011, 07:21:39 PM
My AC and DC look pretty high, is this a setting in Mach3? I burn AC=699392 and DC=699392 into the Galil card, and I just double checked it and it's still those settings.



Thanks,

Aero
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: battwell on February 05, 2011, 07:58:36 PM
you dont burn ac and dc into galil. just used to create a move in smarterm
acceleration should be set to 300000 as mach galil pdf says (set in plugin, not in galil itself)
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: battwell on February 05, 2011, 08:09:47 PM
just looked at the debug file (i dont understand it fully by the way)
are the numbers for kd kp and ki as galil tools set them? seem very high!
do motors sit steady when not commanded to move?
do they move nicely if moved from smarterm?
are motors on or off machine at the moment?
reset acceleration/ deceleration, let mach take care of that
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: Aeroshade on February 05, 2011, 08:27:38 PM
The PID's are set for all axis, according to Galil's "Velocity zone method" http://www.galilmc.com/support/appnotes/miscellaneous/note5491.pdf (http://www.galilmc.com/support/appnotes/miscellaneous/note5491.pdf). I spent a long time tuning these drives to get them perfect. They run great in Camsoft so I'm 100% sure they are tuned good for the size they are. I'm just trying to figure out why my A-axis is jerky in Motor Tuning in Mach3. I can set the AC and DC to anything in GalilTools, but I think Mach3, like Camsoft, adjust them to what it wants, as seen in the debug file. I'm going to go through the .PDF agian and see if I missed something.


Thanks,

Aero
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: smurph on February 05, 2011, 08:31:04 PM
Your AC DC settings come from Mach settings in Config->Motor Tuning.  You need to set the counts per unit correctly as well.

You might want to read the Mach documentation a bit more to get an understanding on what is required in the Mach settings.  They are geared to the parallel port, but the concept is the same no matter what control you are using.  You will then be able to put all of the pieces together.

You need to do this for all of your axes:

1. Enable the axis in Config->Ports and Pins (motor tab).
2. In motor tuning, set your counts per unit, the max seed, and acceleration.  (This is where your problem is)

Then, in the Galil plugin config:

1. Map the Mach axes to the Galil axes.
2. Set the motor types.

Do not map multiple Mach axes to one Galil axis.  Meaning each Mach axis requires a unique Galil axis.

The PID settings should be the only thing burned into the Galil's NVRAM.  All other settings are calculated from Mach settings (which HAVE to be correct for your machine).

Disable the MPG until you get the Motor Tuning corrected.  It can make things harder to diagnose.  Also, set the motor type for your E and F Galil axes to servo to get rid of the SM jumper warning.

Steve
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: Aeroshade on February 05, 2011, 10:49:10 PM
OK I did a master reset on the Galil card. I reset my PID's and the FV and FA how I had them, but all other settings are default. I re-setup the plugin, according to the .PDF, and I disabled the MPG. I went back to Mach3 "Motor Tuning" and found out that whenever I change the Acceleration or Velocity I have to save then hit the reset button to make the changes come into effect. I will play with it more tomorrow, or Monday, and see if I can get it stable.

Is there anyway to figure out the accel. and velocity of a servo to get it close to start with? I have the encoder counts set really close (1000), coming off the scale on the A-axis (rotary).


Thanks,

Aero
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: Aeroshade on February 06, 2011, 12:18:35 AM
OK, I have been reading the Mach3 config .PDF. I take it that in "Motor Tuning" the Velocity=RAPIDSPEED, so I can calculate that with my encoder counts. We want all our drive to run at 200 in./min., (or 200deg/min for the A-axis) so I just take my encoder counts, A-axis is 1000, and times it by how fast I want it to move:

X=encoder counts
Y=speed in in./min.

X*Y=Velocity (RAPIDSPEED)

So my A-axis's velocity would be:

1000*200=200000


Hope this is right, then all I have to do is adjust the accel. to get the accel and decel I need for the motor.



Thanks,

Aero



Edit: 200deg/min might be a little slow, I going to have to bump that up a bit.
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: battwell on February 06, 2011, 05:16:23 AM
set your steps per at how many counts per unit
i work in mm.units
 mine is at 400 steps per mm    (how many counts to move 1 unit)
500ppr encoder. quad =2000, 5mm ballscrew , 2000/5=400

speed is max rapid speed you want to run at . so
my max machine speed on x axis is 40000mm/min so set at 40000 (no other calculation required)
note this is maximum machine speed not what you want to cut at
(for testing, set at a quarter of what you want, it can be changed later)

acceleration, start at a low number like 200 that way it will not jump straight to max speed. if you set this and then click on the trapezoidal graph above it will show you how fast its accelerating to max rapid speed
this can be reset quickly as you go on testing with real cutting etc at a later time.
its good to keep acceleration low doing first tests, that way everything will seem like its in slow motion
remember to save axis settings for each axis before moving to the next .
when you have set all axis. shut down mach3 and restart it, all settings will be saved in its setup xml file so will be there for all future runs.

now, print off the pdf and the mach 3 manual, go sit on the loo for a few hours and have a good read. lol
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: Aeroshade on February 06, 2011, 11:58:05 AM
I noticed that jog has to be on for the "Motor Tuning" to work, is there a way to make it to continuously run when I'm in "Motor Tuning" instead of jog? I get it set to what I think might be a good velocity and accel, but when I go to MDI and type G1 A10. F10. the A-axis wont move.

I can jog the axis with the jog/mpg window, but it wont jog the amount I tell it to.


Thanks,

Aero
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: battwell on February 06, 2011, 12:28:15 PM
in mach go to config, general config
make sure a axis is checked as angular if your working a  as a rotary axis
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: battwell on February 06, 2011, 12:35:56 PM
also in mdi screen if you issue g1 a10 f100  you are only asking for 10 degrees of movement. if axis is at that position it wont move (check on a axis dro for movement in numbers)

type G90 first to set mode to absolute movement
try G0 A350 F1000
then G1 A100
should move 250 degrees if you have steps per right
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: Aeroshade on February 06, 2011, 12:53:34 PM
OK, I want to list to you what I have done.

1. I set the Galil plugin according to the .pdf.

2. I enable all my home and limit switch's (they trigger nice when I push them)

3. I enable the A-axis in config>ports and pins>motor outputs. (only the A-axis since that is the one I'm testing)

4. I calculate my counts/deg, which is 1000.25 counts/deg. And I put this number into "Motor Tuning".( to test this count, with the reset button off, I move the A-axis servo motor by hand and the DRO's are correct for the deg I move the motor.( I picked 10deg to test it with)

5. I then calculate the velocity. I want the A-axis to move 5deg per sec., so I times 5*60 and I get 300. I put 300 in the velocity box in "Motor Tuning" and I set the accel to 30deg/sec (10% of velocity).

6. I then save the settings then restart Mach3. I go back to "Motor Tuning" and use the arrow keys to move the motor. It is VERY slow at these settings, I have to put my hand on the pullys to feel the motor moving.

Does this seem to be correct? I tried MDI and the A-axis still wont move, when I hit enter I get the "Default Beep" out of the speakers from Windows.

Hope this INFO helps.


Thanks,

Aero
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: Aeroshade on February 06, 2011, 12:58:17 PM
in mach go to config, general config
make sure a axis is checked as angular if your working a  as a rotary axis

I checked that and it was set. In config>general config I have "Angular Properties" and "A-Axis is Angular" is checked. "Rotational" ,in the same window, is set to "Rotational Soft Limits".


Thanks,

Aero
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: battwell on February 06, 2011, 02:03:16 PM
turn rotational soft limits off. as you havnt set them up
(these get set up in config/ homing)
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: Aeroshade on February 06, 2011, 02:24:54 PM
OK, I made an .avi of the motion on my A-axis, along with a SS of my "Motor Tuning" Screen.



Click here for the video: http://www.chill-a-hz.com/images/cnc/a-axis.avi (http://www.chill-a-hz.com/images/cnc/a-axis.avi). Notice the jerk, I was holding down the up arrow key the whole time.


(http://www.chill-a-hz.com/images/cnc/motor_tuning.jpg)

Here is the SS of my "Motor Tuning". No matter where I set the velocity or accel I get this motion. I can turn it way down and you can see it, but I still get no motion in MDI.


Thanks,

Aero


EDIT: the velocity and accel are not set to my earlier post, but I turned them up so you could see the jerking.
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: Aeroshade on February 06, 2011, 02:31:24 PM
I can make the motor move with the jog/MPG window, but it only moves .011 when I click the 4+ arrow, even if I change the "cycle jog step". It wont move every time I click it, I have to wait a few seconds between clicks to make it move, and even then it is touch and go.



Thanks,

Aero
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: smurph on February 07, 2011, 12:40:44 AM
Look at the calculated G force!  Almost 13 Gs!  Your acceleration is still too high.  We humans black out a 4 to 6 Gs.  :)  And I think you are blowing the controller's mind.  Set your accel to get a G force of less than 1.

Steve
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: battwell on February 07, 2011, 01:53:27 AM
have you set the setup units in mach to your preferred measurement? mm or inches?
config, setup units. set once and forget.
it may be that your getting 25.4 times less movement than you think you want?

ive pulled 4g in my plane- noooooooo dont want to do that again!
but -3 g feels much worse.
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: smurph on February 07, 2011, 12:49:23 PM
Heh...  I bet -3 does feel worse!!!  :)

The units could be one issue.  But getting that acceleration correct is going to make things a lot better.

Steve
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: Aeroshade on February 07, 2011, 01:02:01 PM
OK, this is REALLY strange. I was on the phone with a Galil tech and we were going through Galil Tools(GT) trying to figure out why I couldn't move the A-axis in GT. He had me input a bunch of commands and then asked me if I had anything hooked up to the "Abort" on my ICM, I told him I had an E-Stop hooked to it (which I just hooked up last Wed or Thur, from reading people here, suggesting that the E-stop be hooked up to "Abort" so Galil can disable the amps). I unhooked that wire and BAM!! I have a normally closed E-stop, I guess I need to get a normally open one. I have nice smooth movement in my A-axis!!! When I asked him how Mach3 was able to move the A-axis at all with the E-stop on the Galil he had no real answer, but everything seems to be fine now!!


I appreciate all the help you guys have given me. I hope that this new INFO might help other people reading this forum from going through what I have :)


MUCH thanks,

Aero
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: Aeroshade on February 07, 2011, 01:04:10 PM
P.S. The tech at Galil told me that the only way, he could think of, Mach3 able to move the A-axis in an E-stop state, was that Mach3 must bombard the controller tell it moves.
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: battwell on February 07, 2011, 01:16:57 PM
what pin did you connect abort to through estop? galil icm 2900 or 1900?
also. read the section on laen or haen chip in icm. does your chip finish with 06 or 07?
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: battwell on February 07, 2011, 01:27:16 PM
the abort can be either hi or low depending on the polarity of the incom signal
for safety it should be wired normally closed. that way if wire gets snapped it stops
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: Aeroshade on February 07, 2011, 01:42:40 PM
It's an ICM-2900, the tech at Galil told me that the switch is active low and can't be changed :(. I have the e-stop hooked to IN8 on the ICM and I have that input routed to Mach3 as E-stop so I will be OK tell I get the new switch or I take this one apart and see if I can make it normally open.

the abort can be either hi or low depending on the polarity of the incom signal
for safety it should be wired normally closed. that way if wire gets snapped it stops

I total agree, I will look into the Galil config and see if I can change it.

Thanks,
Aero
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: kcrouch on February 07, 2011, 01:56:47 PM
Not sure if it has been mentioned here before, but, you need Smartterm and not Galiltools to run with Mach3. You can have both installed, but You must have Smarterm in order to run with the current release of the plugin.
Kenny
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: battwell on February 07, 2011, 02:31:52 PM
the incom signal on the icm needs to be connected to ground if you want normally closed to operate active low for the abort signal. saves breaking your estop switch!
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: Aeroshade on February 07, 2011, 05:00:28 PM
the incom signal on the icm needs to be connected to ground if you want normally closed to operate active low for the abort signal. saves breaking your estop switch!

OK I will try that.

I have a new problem. I'm setting up the X-axis to run on Mach3, I noticed that the DRO's are showing the wrong direction, so I went to config>ports and pins>motor output and enabled "Dir LowActive". Worked great, but I had a little noise in the motor (PID thing) and I noticed the servo motor was indexed wrong on the machine. I had to take the motor apart and index it correctly. I got it all back together and tried it. The motor ran away and now it's back to the same.. DRO's are running the wrong way, but this time changing the "Dir LowActive" isn't changing the direction.

Has anyone ran across this problem?


Thanks,

Aero
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: Aeroshade on February 07, 2011, 05:32:04 PM
This is from the "Mach3Mill_Install_Config.pdf":

If the axis moves in the wrong direction (Minus when it should move Plus), there are three ways to fix
the problem. Click the Save button to save the axis settings, then do one of the following:

• Change the Low Active setting for the Dir pin of the axis in Config>Ports and Pins>Motor Outputs
tab (and Apply it).


At first this worked great, but since I indexed the mounting flange on the motor it isn't working right (which has nothing to do with direction of the motor). I move the axis in the plus direction and the DRO's show -, then when I switch the "Low Active setting" and reset Mach3 and move in the plus direction the DRO's still show -.


Sorry about saying it twice, thought I needed to clarify it a little more.

Thanks,

Aero
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: battwell on February 07, 2011, 05:47:05 PM
use servo reverse in plugin, read the galil manual re reversing if that doesnt work
when you say indexed the motor- not the encoder end i hope.
some motors have sinusoidal encoders which have to be spot on.
(as somebody im programming for this week found out)

if you get chattering etc when moving turn your kd setting down and re burn

Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: Aeroshade on February 07, 2011, 05:57:48 PM
when you say indexed the motor- not the encoder end i hope.

LOL, No I just had to index the flange that bolts the servo to the machine. What i don't understand is that it worked before I did the motor work. I tried it on the A-axis and I can't get that to turn the wrong way either.  Strange!!! :)


Thanks,

Aero
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: Aeroshade on February 07, 2011, 06:00:51 PM
It's like the "Dir LowActive" isn't working anymore for some reason in config>ports and pins>motor output, for none of my motors. I reinstalled the plugin, but it had no effect.


Aero
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: battwell on February 07, 2011, 06:06:19 PM
i think its time you started a new thread. call it aeros help page.
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: Aeroshade on February 07, 2011, 06:16:12 PM
I was thinking the same thing. didn't think I would take up so much space with this :P


Aero
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: DC on April 12, 2011, 08:24:54 PM
I trying to get MACH3 ver 3.043.022 (evaluation version) to work with a Galil 2143 with Galil Plugin V4.4.00
So far Galil Plug in config works and jog is able to move my x, y. and z motors
I loaded Roadrunner gcode and clicked Cycle start button, nothing happens
I looked at the GalilDebug.txt. Nothing unusual with : prompt.
However it looks like nothing got sent out after I clicked on Cycle Start button

Will appreciate it very much if I can get some help.. being kind of new, I am at a lost

Many thanks
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: the_kop on September 25, 2011, 03:22:18 AM
I need help very urgent.
Where (SM) jumper of control DMC 4080 ???
I wish I had a servo digital motor connected to the DMC-4080 and mach3 mill, I have to choose what kind of moter type servo or step. ???

thank you.
udom (thailand)
53000udom@gmail.com
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: kcrouch on September 25, 2011, 09:11:18 AM
The jumpers are no longer used. You set the motor type to +/- 2 or +/- 2.5 to select active high or low step and direction.
Please look at "MT" in the manual.
Kenny
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: the_kop on September 27, 2011, 12:45:20 PM
Now, I use a mach3 plugin and I choose the motor type MT = 2.
I can set a mach3 to close loop fuction.
I was not an analog-digital servo motor, I can select the motor type is MT = 1 or not
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: kcrouch on September 27, 2011, 01:35:40 PM
Closed loop is only valid for a servo system. You must select one of the stepper types in the plugin.

Kenny
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: the_kop on September 28, 2011, 11:57:20 AM
Please help me a little longer. ???
1. I have a digital servo motor.
2. I have a motion control Galil DMC-4143.
3.mach3 software.

I want to make the machine as a close loop.
I've tested as follows.
 - I've set motion drive DMC-4143 by galil tool soft ware (MTA = 2) and set motor type in galil pulgin (Motor type = servo motor) and I jog command from an error on the mach3 then drive DMC-4143.
But if I set motor type in galil pulgin (Motor type step), I used to jog from mach3 it ok. But it was not a close loop.
How do I fix it.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: battwell on September 28, 2011, 12:22:51 PM
set as mt1 or mt-1
remember to use the bn command to save any changes
(this is to use the analogue input to your servo drives with the galil closing the loop)
if you use step/ direction input to your drives then the loop is closed by the drives not by the galil

if you can set your drives to use the torque input, that is the best method with the galil(that i have found)
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: novicemachinist on October 27, 2011, 12:56:30 PM
Hello,

I am new to Galil and Mach3.

I am using Galil DMC 4143 and Automation direct servos with galil inbuilt amps.
I have installed the galil plugin and I can get the motors to jog using mach3. But when I try to run a g-code, it doesn't work. Please let me know if there is any other setting that needs to be done.
Also, I am using the TCP modbus connection. How do I map the limit switches in the ports and pin config in Mach3. I am confused with the port numbers and pin numbers. Please, throw some light on this.

Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: NosmoKing on October 27, 2011, 05:22:07 PM
MT/-MT  has to be used in conjunction with CE, the first reverses the motor command, the second, the encoder direction, if you do not have them in unison, you will get a run away condition.
Nosmo.
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: battwell on October 27, 2011, 07:04:52 PM
the pin numbers are set out quite clearly in the galil plugin pdf instructions (on machs plugin page) might take a couple of re re-reads to understand fully.
only map whatever axis you are using. ie, if your using 3 only map x y z and spindle.
limits must be wired or shorted out (for testing)

im not sure but believe you uncheck the use linear interpolation on the 41 series galil ? worth a try

re g code. are all axis which are called in the code mapped? ie x y z all set as per instructions? if one isnt it cant move so will stop.
if that doesnt work, post your settings here and the start of the code you are trying to run
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: novicemachinist on October 28, 2011, 10:12:17 AM
Thank you for the help.

@ NosmoKing:  I believe my MT ad CE settings are good because I am able to achieve desired movements using Galil tools. I have servo motors on X, Y and Z axes which have a quadrature encoder. So, I set my MT to 1 and CE to 0 for all the three axes. I get the runaway condition when I try to jog them using Mach3.

@battwell: I went through the pin configuration in Galil plugin pdf page. It is a bit confusing to me because the input signal screen in ports and pin config says that only pins 10-13 and 15 can be used, but the pdf has some of the limit switches mapped out of this range.
            I did try mapping them according to the pdf and only the limit switches on my X-axis worked. I double checked the switches using galil tools and they seem to be functioning well. Does this have anything to do with the port number?

Thanks


Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: battwell on October 28, 2011, 10:23:49 AM
i believe all should be mapped as port 1. (in mach ports pins screen)

when you have your mt or mt- correct us bn command to burn into controller so it saves and you dont get a runaway condition when mach3 is closed.

what have you saved into the galil so far?
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: battwell on October 28, 2011, 10:26:47 AM
the other thing to check... what is your tl (torque limit) set at for each axis?
for testing this is set low but must be put to 9.98 to run correctly after motor direction setting etc
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: novicemachinist on October 28, 2011, 10:56:31 AM
I did burn MT and CE to the Galil.

The motors do not have an hall effect sensor, so I am using a Galil Sine Amp 43540.

I have burnt the following to Galil:

IP address
MT=1
CE=0
TL=2 (the rated current for the motor is 3.3A)
TK=5.97 (peak current is 9.3A)
AG=2
AU=4 (since the L>4.2 and I am using 24vdc power supply)
KP=15
KD=160
KI=0

I have these burnt for all the three axes.
Also burnt BW for the Z-axis as it has a brake on it.

I am able to achieve the required motion thru galil tools. But when using Mach3, I am not able to. Does this mean my Mach3 settings are misconfigured?

Thanks


Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: novicemachinist on October 28, 2011, 10:58:42 AM
I also burnt the BM value which is 2500. The motor has 4 pole pairs and the encoder has 10000 counts per rev.
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: battwell on October 28, 2011, 11:32:53 AM
ive not used those ams so cant comment on correct settings.
however TL is torque limit which limits the normal 0-10v output, usually used to take the motors from minimum to max speed. and would normally be set to maximum for normal use.

if it moves correctly in galil tools you must have something wrong in mach 3.
what do you have motors set to in mach3 plugin config?  did you follow the plugin pdf re setting the motors in mach 3?

can you get any movement in mach 3. have you tried the commands g0 x5 etc to move motors?
also check jog is switched on in mach 3.

are any limits etc showing in mach3 diagnostic screen?
what happens when you run code/? any error messages in mach 3 status bar?
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: NosmoKing on October 28, 2011, 11:48:55 AM
When using torque mode (trans-conductance) amplifiers, the current out is relative to voltage in, the TL regulates the level of DC so that the current output can be tailored to the maximum current allowed to the motor.
N.
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: novicemachinist on October 28, 2011, 12:37:41 PM
I did follow the pdf to map my motors and limit switches but I can not get it to work. The motors jog but any G-code I input does not. Also, the limit switches are active only on the X-axis in the diagnostic screen.

I will try reinstalling the plugin and go through all my settings again.
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: novicemachinist on October 31, 2011, 10:12:34 AM
Hello,

If I am using the same limit switch for forward, reverse limits and home, should all of them be mapped with the same pin number in the ports and pins configuration? Could you please help me understand this.

Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: battwell on October 31, 2011, 05:28:52 PM
this can be done but its not so easy to set up!
map all as normal in ports and pins
the limit in the homing direction and the home switch need to be connected together to the same input pins (linked together)
the other limit input need to be wired into the "closed position" permanently
make sure you have use limits as homes checked on in mach 3 ports and pins

ive set up a few machines like this and it always turns into a head scratcher.!!! do one axis at a time
if it doesnt reverse off the limit switch then reverse the limit wires.
good luck.
 >:D
like i said, it can be done but always seems a bit of trial and error to get right.
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: smurph on November 16, 2011, 01:18:52 AM
The problem is the sin amps.  The Galil will support commutation for external sin amps, but it uses 1 axis for the motor and 1 axis for the commutation.  So if you have a 4 axis controller and 3 axes defined with BM, then the plugin decrements the usable axes by the number of axes defined with BM.  4-3=1.  :)  This is how it has to be for external amps.  But...  Galil has an integral sin amp that doesn't require an extra axis for commutation.  But you still have to have BM defined, so the plugin does the wrong thing with that setup. 

The next plugin release will have a fix for this.  However, I do not know when that will be.  :(

Steve
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: battwell on November 16, 2011, 03:12:55 AM
smurph.
does mach debounce do anything with galil?
i did a machine for a customer which is all working, but if taking heavy cuts causing lots of vibration the limit switches are bouncing causing a stop.
tested by tapping switches with a screwdriver while air cutting - as a car mechanic would do normally with a hammer!
recommend anything?
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: smurph on November 16, 2011, 06:59:36 PM
Hmm...  Good question.  I know there are debounce settings in Mach, but whether they are handled in the PP driver or Mach is the question.  Maybe there are debounce stuff in the Galil that we could take advantage of?

I'll see what I can find out.

Steve
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: smurph on November 19, 2011, 03:27:53 PM
battwell,

Better get a bigger spring for that switch.  :(  Because I see no way to debounce a limit switch on the Galil.  If a limit is tripped, the the Galil AUTOMATICALLY issues a ST command for that axis.  :( 

novicemachinist,

Try this plugin: http://www.smcomp.com/~smurph/galil/Galil.zip (http://www.smcomp.com/~smurph/galil/Galil.zip)

You do not need to register your controller with Smart Term with this plugin.  Only set the controller in the plugin config.  It should help your G code moves with you sin amps.

Steve
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: novicemachinist on November 19, 2011, 03:48:57 PM
It works great. Thank you Steve.
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: battwell on November 19, 2011, 07:13:56 PM
thanks for checking smurph.
i might add a capacitor accross switch to 24v to slow it down. or go back to the machine and change the switches.
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: apukak on December 29, 2011, 03:44:21 AM
Help me!  I use Mach3 + GALIL 2230 .
Everything works well but I have a problem:
300000 line are G-code of program. His
starts jamming on middle of program and this intensifies.
Processor run on 60-70% power.
In debug program of GALIL plugin T=4.********* or bigger.
Small program (2000 lines) is ok, no jamming.
What is problem?
Thenks!
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: battwell on December 29, 2011, 05:16:08 AM
i have seen programs stop mid run, but usually caused by a bouncing limit switch etc. (try linking out limit switches at galil during run to prove)
a friend of mine has just run a 150,000,000 line program over 8 days with no stopping using galil .
he was having trouble with stopping all the time which eventually tracked to a noisy z motor. after motor change to a new one machine runs perfectly.
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: battwell on December 29, 2011, 05:19:11 AM
make sure you dont have adobe reader or any other stupid software on the mach3 pc.
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: apukak on December 29, 2011, 06:09:20 AM
Thank you!
GALIL is at step mod. The pc is connect only on galil, there are not end switches.
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: battwell on December 29, 2011, 06:20:38 AM
try running the program above the work with spindle off?

you may well be getting noise from spindle.
it appears galil is quite noise receptive and will fault.

i havnt run galil on a machine in stepper mode , only testing on bench
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: apukak on December 29, 2011, 06:40:29 AM
There are not motors, only pc and Galil.
The standstill shows on the dro cca. 3-4mp until time.
The standstill shows on the single axes in a dmc smart terminal.
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: Swap_File on January 10, 2012, 12:08:17 PM
Occasionally my CNC machine will stop operating and I will get "Galil Error -1: Emessage = "A time-out occurred while waiting for a response from the controller."" in GalilDebug.txt.

When it happens, if I query the controller in SmartTerm it appears to be working normally.  But to get it working in Mach3 I have to exit out and start the program again.  Just pressing the reset button doesn't fix it.

Sometimes everything will work fine for days, sometimes it will do it every 20 minutes.

I do not believe it is a network connectivity issue because I ran a continual ping (ping 192.168.2.1 -t > log.txt) to my Galil controller and it was uninterrupted during the failure.

I have tried a different computer, a different DMC1425, different cables. 

Any ideas?

Pretty soon I am going to dig out a PCI DMC1800, rewire the breakout box, and give it a try.  I have a few of those cards working in similar machines without trouble.

Here is a log of the important parts of my GalilDebug.txt

http://pastebin.com/6hfeH4da (http://pastebin.com/6hfeH4da)
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: smurph on January 13, 2012, 05:58:29 PM
A timeout is well...  a timeout.  It really shouldn't happen.  The plugin sends a command to the controller and the controller should respond, success or otherwise.  But there have been a rash of this lately.  So I'm looking into it.  I had to run a large program for 16 hours on a Virtual Machine to get it to happen.  Meanwhile doing everything I could possibly imagine on the VM host to make life miserable for the VM.  But I managed to duplicate the condition.

I'll be updating the plugin on the download page shortly with a bit of extra code to try and handle timeouts more gracefully.

Swap File:  Looking at your logs, I see a problem with your timings too.  There are times > 200 ms between updates.  These should really be ~100 ms,  This usually means that something is consuming CPU to the point where Mach can no longer communicate with the plugin every 100 ms.  Or it could be indicative of a network communication problem where the response between the plugin and the controller is slowed to a point where Mach spends more time in the plugin than normal.

So with your slow timings and timeouts, I would check your network to make sure that nothing is interfering with the communication between the Mach PC and the Galil controller.  Do you have a hub or a switch that has other devices connected to it along with the PC and the Galil? 

Steve
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: smurph on January 15, 2012, 04:36:40 PM
Guys with timeouts, try this plugin: http://www.smcomp.com/~smurph/galil/Galil.zip (http://www.smcomp.com/~smurph/galil/Galil.zip)

It handles timeouts in a more graceful manner.  It will keep trying to communicate to the controller until it becomes un-stuffed.  So your machine may pause, but it will recover.

Steve
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: Swap_File on January 16, 2012, 12:26:25 PM
Thanks for the quick response!  I updated the DLL this morning and will report back with the results.

The computer running the CNC machine never has CPU usage above 20% while executing code in Mach3.  Right now the computer is a 2.8ghz P4 with 512MB Ram running XP with ACPI turned off.  It is connected to the Galil by a 6 foot long crossover cable (192.168.2.x).  A second NIC connects it to the internet (10.183.0.x).  I have tried a different computer, different NIC (onboard Broadcom, a reltek, and a 3com), and different cables with the same results.

I have one DMC2140 in use over Ethernet and have not noticed any problems (but then again I have never had to dig through galildebug.txt on that machine).  Is it possible the DMC1425 is being slow and choking occasionally?
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: smurph on January 16, 2012, 12:49:57 PM
It's possible.  I have a few 1425s and I'll pound one to see if I can get it to choke up.  They are a little bit different than the Optima line.  I put the support in the plugin for them just because I had a few laying around.  But I didn't do any thorough testing with them.  Just got them talking.   I was planning to try using two of them with the distributed firmware (makes them a 3425) for a total of 4 axes.  I'm not sure that distributed mode will work for axes that need to be tightly coupled, but it might work for controlling a Z axis and spindle for a 2D mill type of setup.  Or a lathe that needs spindle control.

Steve
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: Swap_File on January 16, 2012, 01:37:31 PM
It stopped again (with the new plugin).  This time there was no error message in Galildebug.txt.  Mach3 stopped executing Gcode and I had to exit out of Mach3 and relaunch it to get it to work again.

Attached is the Galildebug.txt
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: Swap_File on January 16, 2012, 09:27:56 PM
Tomorrow morning I am going to unhook all my limits for testing, there is a possibility they could be flaky.  I've noticed that sometimes a noisy limit can silently trigger the Galil without showing up in Mach3.
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: apukak on January 17, 2012, 10:21:22 AM
I tried the new plugin, but nothing's changed, the system stutters. (cca. 400ms is period.)The mach is very occupied.  Repeatedly push the STOP button  in order for the machine to stop.
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: smurph on January 18, 2012, 05:35:59 PM
Something must be going on with your machine.  All indexing and other OS functions (Automatic updates, etc...) that burn CPU must be turned off.  Look at this link and see if there is anything that needs to be done.  http://www.machsupport.com/downloads/XP_Optimization.txt (http://www.machsupport.com/downloads/XP_Optimization.txt)

Others are reporting success with the improved timeout handling.

Steve
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: apukak on January 19, 2012, 03:20:36 AM
The mach runs well if the output is a parallel port.
The mistake comes forward only with the galil.

apukak
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: smurph on January 20, 2012, 05:53:47 AM
Make sure that the GalilDebug.txt file is turned off in the plugin.  It could be that!  A 300000 line Gcode program may create a HUGE debug file.  And the bigger the file, the longer it takes to seek to the end and write a new line.

I'm really grasping at straws here because I don't know where else to go.  If that doesn't help you out, I'm afraid I have no more suggestions.  :(

Steve
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: Swap_File on January 24, 2012, 09:57:01 AM
That special plugin is working great with my DMC 1425.  No problems with Timeouts, and I don't notice the machine stopping at all.

I am still keeping an eye on my Galildebug.txt.  Should I be seeing anything when it catches a timeout?
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: Swap_File on February 14, 2012, 01:46:46 PM
I have noticed different behavior with the 4.5 plugin and my DMC1425 versus the 4.4 plugin with my PCI DMC1800.

When I trip an limit or E-stop button with 4.4 and my DMC1800, mach 3 goes into E-stop mode instantly, and the machine stops instantly.

When I trip a limit or E-stop with the 4.5 special plugin and my DMC1425, mach3 goes into E-stop mode instantly, but the machine will keep executing commands for a bit (maybe a second?) before it notices the E-stop.

Also, if I am holding down an arrow key to jog the machine, and trip a limit, mach3 will go into E-stop mode instantly, but the machine will keep jogging until I let go of the button.  Once I let go of the button, the machine will stop completely and remain in E-stop mode until reset.

It's almost like the plugin doesn't notice that Mach3 has entered E-stop mode.

Ideas?
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: Swap_File on February 15, 2012, 10:30:47 AM
As a temporary solution I have wired my limits to my ABORT input on my DMC1425, and jumpered ABORT to the input pin I have assigned to E-stop in Mach3.
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: smurph on February 15, 2012, 12:44:56 PM
Hmm...  i would have though the hitting a limit, the Galil would have shut down the axis allowing no further movement in that direction.  Regardless of the movement type (jog or otherwise).  I don't have a controller setup to test at the moment.  The only thing I have left is a 1425.  I'll set that up and see if I can duplicate.

Steve
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: ionsignal on February 22, 2012, 02:19:50 PM
Hello Steve,

I have a seat of Mach3 and am going to set up a brush-less servo system.  My compatibility question has to do with a dmc-1842 or 1840 card and A-M-C amplifiers BD30A8B. 

These amps use a pwm and direction but the datasheet says the user has to monitor the current and close the current loop:  "PWM & Direction (Direct) - Products with 'DD' and 'BD' in the model number - The user's PWM & Direction signals translate directly to the output. This means the user has direct control of the output duty-cycle and switching frequency. This type of control has the fastest response of all of our products since there are no gain stages or integrators. Since the drive doesn't close the current loop and current limiting is rudimentary (bang-bang current limiting rather than a smooth fold-back) it is up to the user to monitor the current and close the current loop."

The datasheet is here:  http://www.a-m-c.com/download/datasheet/bd30a8.pdf

1)  Is there facility in the galil cards to do this sort of current control or is it done with position feedback?  Or should I look for other amps with an analog 10v input?

2)  Is there an big difference in the two cars, 1842 vs 1840?

3)  will the Mach4 plugin work with either card?

Thank you,

Mark
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: ionsignal on February 26, 2012, 09:56:44 PM
Hello,

I found out that the dmc-18x0 and 18x2 cards have a facility to control the amperage but those particular amps have a lower rated pwm frequency than what the cards put out so they are not compatible.

Mark
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: novicemachinist on March 07, 2012, 03:47:45 PM
I have my CNC machine built up using Galil 4143 and Mach3 but have some problems. I have trouble with the following.

1.   Homing.  This is not a very frequent problem.
At times the Y-axis overshoots and passes the homing and limit switch during homing routine. Reducing the homing speed to 10% seems to have reduced the problem to certain extent.

2.   Work Offset.
Once the G55 is set, if I home it and send a G55 command I get unreliable results.
a.   X overshoots and hits limit. This occurred if my G55 command is part of the program.
b.   If I use MDI to send G55, the X does go to G55 but it is off by around .004 to .005 inches.

3.   Tool wear offset.
It does not have any effect on the profile.

Please advise.

Thanks,
A
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: ionsignal on March 07, 2012, 04:03:15 PM
I have two thoughts for your problems.  I have not set my machine up yet so no direct experience but remember reading in the plugin doc that there is a command buffer rate or amount that one can adjust.  If its large, there may be a delay during the homing that lets it get by the switch, or the acceleration is low and it does not decelerate fast enough to stop withing the switch hysteresis.

I don't think the work coordinate system issue is in the Galil card, they can be hard to manage in the cnc control.  I've only set the g54 g55 etc on the offsets screen, but move to locations withing a work system with gcode.

Hope this helps,

Mark
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: novicemachinist on March 09, 2012, 09:40:28 PM
Retuning the motors through Galil took care of homing issue. Also the acceleration and deceleration helped too.

But the problem with the work offset still exists. Also, the tool wear offset doesn't work either.

Thank you.
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: Bronx on October 30, 2013, 10:05:45 AM
Does the DMC-40X0 controller work with Mach 3? Any restrictions?
I wrote this in another thread, but here it is in a quickly accessible place...

Any current Accelera controllers will work.  Stick with the version 7 Galil drivers though.

Any bus based or ethernet Optima controllers will work.  This includes the DMC1700, DMC1800, DMC2100, and DMC2200.  In theory, the DMC2000 (USB) may work as well.  I just don't know if there would be any issues with USB.  But it has all of the other necessary things to work.  Use the version 7 Galil drivers that come with SmartTerm for these controllers.  Older drivers will cause you big time headaches.

The DMC-18x2 econo controllers will also work.  But they don't support binary commands and this will slow things down a bit.  It takes about 350 microseconds for a Galil controller to process an ASCII command.  This time is saved if the controller can accept binary commands.  The Galil plug-in takes advantage of binary commands if the controller is capable.

The DMC-21x3 are like the DMC-18x2 controllers.  They might not work with the Galil plug-in because of the way they handle Data Records.  Big question mark here.
EDIT:  The DMC-21x3 controller will work fine as long as they don't have the 31x3 distributed mode firmware loaded.  If you have a 31x3, simply install the latest and greatest 21x3 firmware and you are good to go.  Also these controllers, while labeled "Econo", will accept binary commands.

There is also an older version of the DMC-21x3 called the DMC-21x2.  The difference is that the x2 controllers use the 100 pin SCSI connector instead of DB base interconnect modules for the x3 models.  So you will have to have ICM-2900s for the DMC-21x2 controllers.

The DMC-3415 and DMC-3425 controllers will not work.  These are 1 or 2 axis ethernet controllers that can be "chained" together to make a distributed controller that has as many as 8 axes.  But the way they do this is through a modified Data Record which is not compatible with the Data Record that the Galil plug-in will want to see. The Data Record is what Mach looks at (via the plug-in) to see if the state of I/O pins and DRO.

DMC-1415 and DMC-1425 controllers will work.  But they are 2 and 1 axis, respectively.

A DMC-3425 can be updated with DMC-1425 firmware and it will work.  But you are stuck with a 2 axis machine.  Same with the 3415 except you will have a 1 axis machine.

The DMC1000 ISA controllers will NOT work.  This is because these controllers do not have a Data Record at all.  They also do not support binary commands.  The Galil plug-in could be modified to support these controllers, but they would most likely be in the SLOW department.  Don't waste your time or money on these controllers for Mach use.

None of the VME based controllers will work.  e.g. the DMC-1300, DMC-300, or DMC-13x8 controllers.  The DMC-300 is ancient and should be discarded immediately.  The DMC-1300 suffers the same "no data record" as the DMC-1000's do.  The DMC-13x8 is an Optima controller, but the Galil windows drivers have no support for these cards at all.  Plus, unless you have a very industrial PC, you will not even have a VME bus, much less a VME bus driver.  I did, however, make a DMC-1348 controller work.  It's just that it's not feasible unless you have a bunch of VME hardware lying around.

None of the DMC-700 series or DMC-1500 series controllers will work.  They are serial communication controllers and they also don't have Data Records.  They would be good for making tool changers though.  Perhaps driven by I/O logic.

Also be aware that many of the Galil controllers that are floating around are special controllers made for an OEM.  Galil provides no support for these controllers.  Most of the time, a firmware update is all that is required to get the controller to work like a normal Galil controller.  But if there is special hardware mods, you will loose.

Steve

Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: smurph on October 30, 2013, 01:07:58 PM
Does the DMC-40X0 controller work with Mach 3? Any restrictions?

At the time I wrote that compatibility synopsis, the 40x0 and 41x3 controllers were not here yet.  But to answer your question, the 40x0 and 41x3 controllers work fine with no restrictions.  In fact, I run my Matsuura mill on a 4080.  It is poetry in motion.

Steve
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: Bronx on October 30, 2013, 01:25:38 PM
Steve,
       I'm looking to use the Mach 3 software but I guess it goes to over to Mach 4 software shortly. Will the Galil plugin work with Mach 4 software. Does the plugin get downloaded to the DMC-40x0 and the Mach software run on a Windows based computer?

Ray
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: smurph on October 30, 2013, 06:53:09 PM
Nothing is downloaded to the controller in the normal case.  The plguin is a Windows DLL that drives the Galil controller.  So yes, Mach3 is all Windows. 

Mach4 will have a Galil plugin eventually.  However, it will not be at the time of the Mach4 release.  I actually have a semi-working Mach4 plugin.  But it will take a while to get it as fully functional as it is under Mach3.  But I can say with certainty that the Mach3/Galil combination is a good one for a 3 axis mill.  It blows away the old YASNAC controller that was on my machine.  Puts it to shame.  The Galil plugin supports gantry type machines.  But I don't have a gantry machine so the code may not be the best for gantry systems.

Steve
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: rasta on June 18, 2014, 06:22:42 PM
Hi ; I have one Galil 1423 similar to the one in the link
my question is, because it got 4 D connectors, can it be used with $ external step and dir drives like Yaskawa or Gecko, to obtain 4 axis?
please answer promptly as if it does not suit I will have to return it .
regards
Mariano

(http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Galil-Model-DMC-4123-Motion-Control-4-axis-Ethernet-Motion-Controller-/281336319272?pt=BI_Control_Systems_PLCs&hash=item4180f38d28&_uhb=1)
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: smurph on June 18, 2014, 06:44:30 PM
No.  The 1423 is a two axis controller.  If you want to us step/dir, there are a lot of cheaper and less complicated controllers to use.  Or did you mean 4123?  Even so, that is a two axis controller that can be expanded to 4 axes.  The fact that it has 4 D sub connectors is not going to give to 4 axes.

41x3.  The x is the number of axes available on the controller.  However, it can be upgraded to 4 axes.  Just send it to Galil.  They will charge $200 for the mod plus $100 per axis added.  So The bill would be $400.00 plus shipping to get that controller in the provided link to be 4 axes.

It pays to know what you are buying on eBay.  Because unscrupulous or ignorant sellers can misrepresent the controller.  The fact that the TOP stickers says 4123 MEANS is is a 2 axis controller.  Also, the controller that is linked has amps in it.  There are two square Molex connectors that are present and there are two that are not present.  Another clue that this is indeed a 2 axis controller.  For external drives/amps, that ICM style in not preferred.  The I200 ICM is the one for external amps.  So from Galil, the part number for a 4 axis controller would be DMC-4143-I200.  That is what you want. 

Steve
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: rasta on June 18, 2014, 07:19:51 PM
Thank you Smurph for your prompt and knowledgeable answer.
now can i ask you if this one be ok? to control external step and dir amplifiers?
(http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/FREE-U-S-SHIPPING-GALIL-Motion-Control-DMC-2183-DC24-SDM-20640-SDM-20242-/310984205992?pt=BI_Control_Systems_PLCs&hash=item48681a66a8&_uhb=1)



 thanks in advance
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: smurph on June 18, 2014, 07:59:08 PM
The basic controller is OK.  Not the best.  A 41x3 or 40x0 are preferred.  But the  SDM-20640 & SDM-20242 ICMs on that 2183 are not good for external amps.  I would continue looking.  And I would also consider using a controller other than a Galil if you have step/dir amps.  Like Ethernet Smooth Stepper or HiCON. 

Unless you have analog command amps, using the Galil is just plain not needed.  It is like buying a dump truck to carry a few bags of groceries from the local store.  Hugely more expensive and not worth the effort.

Steve
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: rasta on June 18, 2014, 08:52:44 PM
thanks Smurph you again for your answer, can you believe that I have a complete  siemens controller and 3  amplifiers  ,ac servos and screen/keyboard and I wont be able to use them , because of lack of brains?,lol
thanks again
Mariano
 
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: coolfox on September 05, 2014, 10:05:36 AM
Moderators!!
Question please,  when new system set up Mach3 Galil DMC 1800 ISA series (or ethernet 2200), does Mach3 need paralel port driver installed or not?
Many thanks in advance
P.S. (Still don't get understanding what is send to GALIL card from Mach3) Trying to optimise industrial Panel/PC for running Mach3 and Isa DMC1850 under Windows XP.
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: smurph on September 05, 2014, 07:58:58 PM
No parallel port required with Galil.  Stay away from the ISA controller.  It will only work with SmartTerm drivers and that limits you for the future.  The 2200 is ok, but 41x3 or 40x0 is the controllers that we are targeting for Mach 4.

Steve
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: Holzwurm56 on September 12, 2014, 12:47:20 PM
Hi ,
I get some Galil DMC 1765 and 1785  . Works these cards with Mach3 ? I want to control a machine with + - 10 V servo amplifiers and servo amplifiers with step and direction input at the same time . Is this possible ? Does someone knows it ?

Many thanks for every answer

Hans
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: smurph on September 22, 2014, 02:27:50 PM
Hans,

Those sound like ISA bus controllers.  But the 5 on the end of the model number indicates a special controller that may have been an OEM controller made to their specs by Galil.  Meaning they may not work as a regular Galil would.  In any case, they being ISA, I would not use them.  Smart Term drivers only.

Steve
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: coolfox on September 30, 2014, 07:55:29 AM
I read and search through compatibility but still could no find answer is Galil  DMC-8240  ISA work with current plugin ?
Many thanks In advance
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: smurph on September 30, 2014, 12:42:40 PM
DMC-8240 is not a controller that I recognize.  I would not use anything ISA, period.  10 years ago, I would have said different.  But now, it is a waste of money.  You can buy a new DMC-41x3 cheaper than you can put a modern processor in a ISA motherboard (they still make them but they are expensive!!!) to put together a system that is still ultimately based on a bus controller.

We are moving away from Linear mode in the plugin and toward Contour mode.  The only bus based controller that supports contour mode is the DMC-18x6 (PCI).  For Mach 4, we go back to using the Galil drivers and they do not support ISA at all.  So there is no future for ISA controllers.

Steve
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: coolfox on October 01, 2014, 08:52:11 AM
Steve
Thanks a bunch for explanations.
I aware  of your intentions going away from Smart term drivers Its just bits and bobs been lying around I would like to utilise in simple applications for cheep clients :-)
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: bubba on November 18, 2014, 01:05:47 AM
Hi Steve,

Are the 18x3 PCI cards working with the plugin for Mach4?

Thanks,
Joe
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: smurph on November 18, 2014, 01:11:37 PM
I don't know what 18x3 is.  18x0 is Optima, 18x6 is Accelera, and 18x2 is Econo.  Of all, only the 18x6 supports contour mode, so that will be the favored card.  If Galil's drivers will support the card, then it MAY work.  I don't have any bus based cards anymore and I really can't test any of them. 

Steve
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: bubba on November 18, 2014, 02:51:29 PM
Which drivers do you want installed Galil tool,smarter etc?
Has any one done a step by step instructions.
Example load Galil software,communicate with card, then install mach4 etc

Thanks for your response,
Joe
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: smurph on November 18, 2014, 04:35:37 PM
I cannot write instructions for setting up bused based cards for which I don't have.  :(

The Galil plugin for Mach4 uses the Galil Tools/Galil Suites API library called LibGalil.  It will work with the driver provided by Tools or Suites.  But not Smart Term.  Smart Term is dead and will only work on Windows XP.

If you are shooting for Mach4, then:

1. Don't use Windows XP.
2. Don't use bus based cards. 

Currently, we are supporting XP for Mach 4.  But for how long?  The safe bet is not long at all.  And bus based cards...  I don't have any of them.  I can't test them and I won't be able to support them.  IF it works, then great.  If not, then I will be of no help.  :(

The Ethernet Galils do not require ANY drivers and thus do not require any special setup other than setting up the IP address.  You can load Galil Tool/Suites and immediately communicate with them with no driver install and reboot.  This is the future.  There is no going back to the bus based controllers for Galil.  They have not nor do I believe they will ever produce a PCIe controller.

So that is the writing on the wall, unfortunately. 

The Galils differ greatly on how the data record is obtained.  The Ethernet controllers can "stream" a data record to the PC and this is what we have chosen to use in programming the Mach4/Galil plugin.  The PCI cards have to be polled.  And since I don't have a PCI card, I cannot test this polling of the data record.  So there is absolutely no guarantee that your PCI card will ever work with the Mach4/Galil plugin.  So please don't invest a ton of time and money into the setup you have for Mach 4.  It should work fine for Mach 3 though.

Steve

Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: bubba on November 18, 2014, 07:03:46 PM
Thanks
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: bubba on November 22, 2014, 11:01:08 PM
Hi Steve,

Will this be ok with Mach4

Galil DMC-2142, ICM-20105, DB-28040-5

Excuse if this a stupid question, but is there a working Galil plugin for Mach4?
I have been looking for it but I must be overlooking it because I have not found it.

Thanks,
Joe
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: smurph on November 23, 2014, 04:46:54 PM
DMC-2142 is an Econo controller with the old style 100 pin connectors on it.  Are you sure it is a 2142?  Or is it a 2143?  Both can only use Linear mode motion control.   The newer controllers use Contour mode.  Strictly speaking, the 21x2/3 controllers will work.  But they are getting long in the tooth.  And the Mach 4 plugin has not been tested with them as yet.

There is a working Galil plugin for Mach 4 for Ethernet controllers only at this point.  It is not ready for prime time yet and has really only been tested on the newer controllers.  Thus it has not been released.  And I'm not sure when it will be released at this point as we are concentrating on Mach 4 primarily at this time.  Right now, Mach Motion, Kenny Crouch and myself are the only ones that have machines running Mach 4 with Galil.  And we are using 4000 series controllers. 

We will be building a machine at the shop with a 21x3 controller in the coming months, so that should shore up the support for the older Ethernet controllers.  But that is not high priority at this time.  :(

Also, the Galil plugin will be a supported plugin for Mach 4.  And that means it will most likely be licensed much like Darwin is.  The price of Mach 4 alone is not going to cover the cost of the Galil plugin development and maintenance. 

Steve
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: battwell on February 23, 2015, 05:40:44 PM
Hi steve.
What is the status on Mach 4 galil etc?
Another one of my big Biesse original controls has just done the splits!
I just got a new 2280 (same as I used in the first one)
I just read that your only going to support the accelera series?
All my machines are on the older 2100,2200 or 2183 galils.
Have you got a price yet for the m4 galil plugin? Happy to pay for it
Or am I best to stick with m3?
I have purchased m4 but haven't licences it to a PC yet awaiting a supported plugin
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: smurph on February 23, 2015, 08:09:13 PM
The Mach 4 plugin is still in it's development stages.  Jeff, Kenny, and me have it running, but that is about it.  We are working the issues out a little at a time, but it is not to release into the wild yet.  If I could spend a week or two on it, it would be done.  But I'm working too much on Mach to give it any attention at this point. 

It will work with the Ethernet Optimas and the Ethernet Econos.  They just can't use Contour mode, which is much better than Linear mode. 

We don't know what the price will be at this point.  :(  I don't even know a ball park yet.

Steve
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: battwell on February 24, 2015, 05:23:08 AM
Ok. Seems like il stick with m3 for the moment then.
Question re contour mode, in what way is it better than linear mode?
Any chance of a quick explanation ?

Most of my machines are still running the old version 4 smarterm plugin. My programs are not huge and it's worked well
Il try the newer 4.6 with the next one.
M3 is probably easier for me as Ive learnt a lot about writing macros and how it all works since I converted the first big one !
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: smurph on February 24, 2015, 04:18:17 PM
Linear interpolation (the original way we did movement with the Galil) can be a bit of a problem.  Because the Galil profiler tries to do what it does, profile a move!  But we have already profiled the move in Mach.  So we must disable the Galil profiler by giving it insane acceleration values.  In other words, we just want the Galil to do what we say from Mach.  But there are a lot of tools like smoothing and vector time constant that may need to be tweaked to get the best operation, depending on the physics of the machine. 

The newer Contour mode basically does not try to profile the move at all.  It is 100% in Mach's control.  It is pure position over time (PT).  The older controllers had contour mode, but the queue was only 1 slot deep.  This made it impossible to use "over the wire".  Starting with the Accelera line of controllers, Galil increase the contour queue to 512 slots just like the linear interpolation queue.  With contour mode, we can get resolutions as low as .5 ms time slices where we could only get 4ms time slices with linear interpolation. 

Also, the Galil interface is a terminal.  So it takes ASCII commands on a command line type of thing.  The controllers have to take the ASCII command and interpret it before it processes the command.  On the older controllers, this could take quite a bit of time in the scheme of things.  A quarter of a millisecond!  That would equal 4 commands in 1 millisecond.  But...  you have to get the data record in that stream too.  So the real limit with some fudge factor was a 4ms time slice.  The newer controllers are far faster (4 nanoseconds per command) allowing for faster data rates and thus smaller time slices.

That is it in a nut shell.  :)
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: battwell on February 24, 2015, 06:29:00 PM
That was a good short explanation! Lol
I have 8  Ethernet  Eco 21series controls and 4 optima 2200 series on the spares shelf!
Oh well.
To be fair. My machine has been superb at its original job of point to point cabinet work- and also something it was never made to do originally- small and fine carving work. Only possible due to the mach3 plugin you did.
Maybe il have another look at 4 next year. See how it's grown up .
Regards
Benny. uk
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: silyavski on March 07, 2015, 02:50:07 AM
Hi guys, thanks for the plugin! But where to download the latest version for Mach3? Somebody send it to me at costademaria @ gmail.com please 
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: eddyde on April 04, 2015, 12:11:41 PM
Hi I am a little confused. I have a 2240 with Ethernet, the manual says it has contour mode. Will it work with the Mach 4 plugin when its released? Or should I just go with Mach 3 & the existing plugin, If so how well would it work?
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: Tig-140 on June 25, 2015, 07:49:06 PM
I'm setting up a Bridgeport mill with a Galil 4080 connected to 30A20ac Advance Motion Control. I will use -10/+10 vdc control between the 4080 and the 30a20ac. The 30a20ac has inputs to inhibit direction that can be used to prevent going in the wrong direction when backing off a limit. Should I hook them up, or will the software take care of this? The drive motor has a CFW-08 Weg drive, I can control it with -10/+10 vdc also, or order a serial rs485 card. What option would work best with my setup? I'm leaning toward the -10/+10vdc to the 4080 because it has extra axis and I will be putting an encoder on the spindle at some point. (After Mach 4 gets rigid tapping) How difficult will it be to use the i/o on the 4080? I have the option to use i/o on pokeys 56E that my PoNET kbd48CNC keyboard is connected to, if the Galil plug-in doesn't support extended i/o. Could I get the Galil plug-in to try out, who would I speak with?
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: smurph on November 04, 2015, 04:01:41 PM
Hi I am a little confused. I have a 2240 with Ethernet, the manual says it has contour mode. Will it work with the Mach 4 plugin when its released? Or should I just go with Mach 3 & the existing plugin, If so how well would it work?

Yes, it does indeed have contour mode.  However, it does not have a contour buffer large enough to run contour mode over the Ethernet.  It's only one slot deep!  This, in effect, makes it impossible to use Contour mode on these controllers.

Steve
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: smurph on November 04, 2015, 04:05:36 PM
I'm setting up a Bridgeport mill with a Galil 4080 connected to 30A20ac Advance Motion Control. I will use -10/+10 vdc control between the 4080 and the 30a20ac. The 30a20ac has inputs to inhibit direction that can be used to prevent going in the wrong direction when backing off a limit. Should I hook them up, or will the software take care of this? The drive motor has a CFW-08 Weg drive, I can control it with -10/+10 vdc also, or order a serial rs485 card. What option would work best with my setup? I'm leaning toward the -10/+10vdc to the 4080 because it has extra axis and I will be putting an encoder on the spindle at some point. (After Mach 4 gets rigid tapping) How difficult will it be to use the i/o on the 4080? I have the option to use i/o on pokeys 56E that my PoNET kbd48CNC keyboard is connected to, if the Galil plug-in doesn't support extended i/o. Could I get the Galil plug-in to try out, who would I speak with?

If you use the Galil limit inputs, the Galil will take care of it.  Otherwise, I would hook the drive signals up.  I use both on my machine.  Never hurts to be safe.

I would use +-10v.

IO, both general and extended, are easily used through the plugin.

The plugin for Mach 3 is available on the plugins download section of the website.  The M4 plugin has not been released yet.  :(

Steve
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: tonyfoale on April 20, 2017, 07:18:30 AM
I have been using Mach3 free with the G code 200 limit on lines waiting for the Mach4 Galil plugin. I cannot wait any longer before buying the unlimited Mach3 or Mach4 but I am confused by what appears to be differing statements about Galil 21x3 compatibility with Mach4 plugin.

quote
"The DMC-21x3 are like the DMC-18x2 controllers.  They might not work with the Galil plug-in because of the way they handle Data Records.  Big question mark here.
EDIT:  The DMC-21x3 controller will work fine as long as they don't have the 31x3 distributed mode firmware loaded.  If you have a 31x3, simply install the latest and greatest 21x3 firmware and you are good to go.  Also these controllers, while labeled "Econo", will accept binary commands."

This looks like the edit says that I would be OK but I cannot see if that is referring to the Mach3 or 4 plugin. So please can I have definitive answers to the following.

1. Will the mach4 Galil plugin work with the 21x3 using ethernet?
2. If so, will it give the same or more functionality that Mach3 does?
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: silyavski on April 20, 2017, 07:23:35 AM
My advice is Not to use Galil products wirth Mach3. No support for the plugin. Absolute waste of time. the Ethernet software is ridiculously old and clumsy. For that money now there are much better solutions.
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: tonyfoale on April 20, 2017, 08:41:11 AM
My advice is Not to use Galil products wirth Mach3. No support for the plugin. Absolute waste of time. the Ethernet software is ridiculously old and clumsy. For that money now there are much better solutions.

I am confused by your reply.
Firstly, what support for the Mach3 plugin will I need? It works fine now. Will that change?
What time am I wasting?
I am ridiculously old and clumsy so I am a good match for the ethernet software.
For what money?
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: silyavski on April 20, 2017, 10:39:34 AM
My advice is Not to use Galil products wirth Mach3. No support for the plugin. Absolute waste of time. the Ethernet software is ridiculously old and clumsy. For that money now there are much better solutions.

I am confused by your reply.
Firstly, what support for the Mach3 plugin will I need? It works fine now. Will that change?
What time am I wasting?
I am ridiculously old and clumsy so I am a good match for the ethernet software.
For what money?

If it works for you then "Good luck!"

Once i needed help and i asked here at the time /year 2015/ still no answer. http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,30436.msg211370.html#msg211370

What money? The money a Galil  controller costs even second hand. And that for sth without official support, on a problematic Mach3...No thanks.

I am using now Chinese offline controller, no PC, No Mach3, No windows. Thanks God. At last all works 100%

Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: tonyfoale on April 20, 2017, 02:25:11 PM
What money? The money a Galil  controller costs even second hand. And that for sth without official support, on a problematic Mach3...No thanks.

I am using now Chinese offline controller, no PC, No Mach3, No windows. Thanks God. At last all works 100%

I have the Galil card.
Tell me more about your Chinese solution.
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: smurph on April 20, 2017, 02:48:52 PM
These are not definitive.  :)

1. Only the 40x0, 41x3 and 18x6 controllers are "officially" supported by the Mach 4 Galil plugin.  There is code in the plugin to run a 21x3, but no testing has been done on them what so ever. 
2. The Galil will perform the same no matter what is running it.  Mach 4 has more features than Mach 3 in some areas while Mach 3 has more in others.  To give a definitive answer, I would need to know what functionality you are looking for. 

To be safe with that 21x3, I would suggest sticking with Mach 3.  I would keep a lookout for a 41x3 controller.  They really are a better fit for a machine motion controller because we can use contour mode with them.  The 21x3 only supports linear interpolation and while it works, it is not optimum for the task at hand. 

Steve
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: tonyfoale on April 20, 2017, 03:20:10 PM
There is code in the plugin to run a 21x3, but no testing has been done on them what so ever. 

Do you want a tester?

Mach 4 has more features than Mach 3 in some areas while Mach 3 has more in others. 
Steve

I thought as much, hence the question.
I'll keep a look out for a 41x3, in which case it would seem sensible to go for Mach4 but for now I need to work with the 2143.
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: smurph on April 20, 2017, 05:34:07 PM

If it works for you then "Good luck!"

Once i needed help and i asked here at the time /year 2015/ still no answer. http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,30436.msg211370.html#msg211370

What money? The money a Galil  controller costs even second hand. And that for sth without official support, on a problematic Mach3...No thanks.

I am using now Chinese offline controller, no PC, No Mach3, No windows. Thanks God. At last all works 100%


Please don't take offense at this, as I'm just trying to explain why some posts go unanswered.  

None of your questions had any relation to the Galil plugin at all.  They were all questions about the Galil and how to hook it up.  I would assume most people that read that post, including myself, decided that if you didn't get the needed information from the Galil manual, no amount of our typing was going to clear it up.  I certainly can't think of a better way or words to answer them than what Galil had to say about it.  A lot of times, that is why posts go unanswered.  Just because people don't think they have anything to add.  Those type of questions would be better served if asked on Galil forum.  

Also, a lot of Galil users were also probably scratching their heads as to why you were using a Galil to drive a Step/Dir interface in the first place when, as you say, there are much better solutions for the money (ESS comes to mind).  People tend to use a Galil to drive analog servo motors in Mach 3 as it is one of a very few plugins that can do that.  If you don't want to drive analog servos, then there is really no reason to run a Galil other than just wanting to.  Most people are not going to post that for fear of offending the OP.  

Steve
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: tonyfoale on April 20, 2017, 05:45:23 PM
   People tend to use a Galil to drive analog servo motors in Mach 3 as it is one of a very few plugins that can do that.  If you don't want to drive analog servos, then there is really no reason to run a Galil

That is exactly why I got a Galil card.  I had a Bridgeport which had been fitted with an Anilam system from new.  I wanted to keep the servos, drivers and glass slides and the Galil and Mach3 was really about all I could find except for one ridiculously expensive system which had bad reviews in general.
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: smurph on April 20, 2017, 05:54:52 PM
Tony,

The Mach 4 Galil plugin is fully supported by ArtSoft, as opposed to the forum based support for the Mach 3 Galil plugin.  In order to do that, we have to charge a bit for the Mach 4 Galil plugin.  With that said, we also had to make a decision as to what controller we could support.  And that came down to basically the 41x3 and 40x0 controllers.  Because one thing we learned with the Mach 3 plugin (those of us that wrote it) was that it is VERY difficult to support each and every model available from Galil.  Also, Galil does a lot of custom controllers that are special ordered by companies that are configured to operated in their environment.  A lot of times these controllers find their way to auction sites and then someone "wins" them and tries to use them with Mach.  Most of these special controllers will never work with Mach be it version 3 or 4.  And the guy that "won" it ends up being VERY disappointed.    I cannot begin to explain the pain and grief that has cause.  So for Mach 4 we talked to Galil about all of this stuff and agreed that only the above non-special ordered controllers would be supported.  

So it is not a question of needing a tester for the 21x3 so that we can develop and support it.  It can only use the Linear interpolation mode.  And while there is code in the Mach 4 plugin to handle that, we can't say that it will forever work when the plugin is updated to take advantage of some new feature that is only available on the newer controllers.  It just costs too much to merge a change into the plugin and make it work for both Contour Mode And Linear Interpolation Mode.  

Steve
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: smurph on April 20, 2017, 06:11:50 PM
  People tend to use a Galil to drive analog servo motors in Mach 3 as it is one of a very few plugins that can do that.  If you don't want to drive analog servos, then there is really no reason to run a Galil

That is exactly why I got a Galil card.  I had a Bridgeport which had been fitted with an Anilam system from new.  I wanted to keep the servos, drivers and glass slides and the Galil and Mach3 was really about all I could find except for one ridiculously expensive system which had bad reviews in general.

I would tend to want to keep that good stuff too!  I know the cost of a newer Galil is an impediment.  Especially if you have a 21x3 at the moment.  But I can promise you that you will be MUCH happier with the 41x3.  It is simply a better controller than the 21x3 for a milling machine motion controller.  It will do the rest of the machine justice.  

Perhaps you can sell the 21x3 and put that towards a 41x3?  Then you could run Mach 4 or Mach 3 and choose the one you like best.  Just keep in mine that if you want to control the spindle from the Galil, you need to get one extra axis on the Galil.  I suggest a 4153 for milling machines if you EVER think you might want to run a rotary 4th axis.  

I have a 4080 on my machine running Mach 4.  It is poetry in motion!  It is a Matsuura that originally had a YASNAC control on it.  One of the I/O boards went out on it and I decided to retrofit it to Mach instead of just buying a replacement board for the YASNAC.  Best decision I every made!  Mach4/Galil blows that YASNAC away!  Now, it took a lot of work and I had to buy a Galil, but the costs were not that much more than buying the replacement board for the YASNAC on the surplus market.  My only regret is the purchase of the 4080 instead of a 4153.  The 4080 is so overkill it isn't even funny.  

Steve
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: tonyfoale on April 20, 2017, 06:56:12 PM
I would tend to want to keep that good stuff too!  I know the cost of a newer Galil is an impediment.  Especially if you have a 21x3 at the moment.  But I can promise you that you will be MUCH happier with the 41x3.  It is simply a better controller than the 21x3 for a milling machine motion controller.  It will do the rest of the machine justice.  

Perhaps you can sell the 21x3 and put that towards a 41x3?  Then you could run Mach 4 or Mach 3 and choose the one you like best.
Steve

Thanks for that info. When I got the Galil card cost was a big factor. It was considerably more expensive than my planned budget and until you just pointed it out I had no idea that it had deficiencies which some of their others cards didn't.
I had an additional reason for wanting to keep "that good stuff" which was that I had duplicates of it all.  It was the old Anilam controller that I wanted to replace.  It worked to drive the machine but the tape recorder and RS232 connection for a PC were shot.  It got tedious real quick entering each programme manually.
I only use 3 axis currently but I got the 4 axis card to allow for a 4th but I confess that I didn't realize that the spindle would take another, but I can live without that feature.
I have just downloaded mach4 to give it a test, do I need to unload Mach3 or should I run it from a clean computer.
Is the demo restriction like Mach3 with its limit on G-code lines, or is it a time/date restriction.  Does the Galil plugin need licencing for a test run of Mach4?
I'll see if maybe I can sell the 2143, I also have 2 sets of anilam controller that I don't need.
BTW I have upped the mill motor size and it runs to 6000rpm very smooth. Check it out at http://www.homemadetools.net/forum/how-make-6000rpm-bridgeport-56661#post84115
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: smurph on April 20, 2017, 08:44:46 PM
Tony,

Mach 4 and Mach 3 can co-exist. 
Mach 4 Demo runs on a variable timer (5 to 10 minutes) vs. Mach 3's line limit.
Unfortunately, there is no demo version of the Mach 4 plugin.  I will see if I can implement that.

Nice work on that variable J head!  You managed to get rid of all the noisy parts quite nicely.  :)  i have replaced so many of those bushings i lost count.  I much prefer a pulley J head because of the noise those things will start making.  And they will get noisy pretty damned fast.  Just watch the spindle bearings and make sure they don't heat too much at those speeds!

Steve
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: silyavski on April 21, 2017, 01:12:00 AM
   People tend to use a Galil to drive analog servo motors in Mach 3 as it is one of a very few plugins that can do that.  If you don't want to drive analog servos, then there is really no reason to run a Galil

That is exactly why I got a Galil card.  I had a Bridgeport which had been fitted with an Anilam system from new.  I wanted to keep the servos, drivers and glass slides and the Galil and Mach3 was really about all I could find except for one ridiculously expensive system which had bad reviews in general.

Sorry for ranting, I see that now, but not at the moment. 

I wanted the best controller for my machine, for eventual upgrades and the ability to program certain things on the rest of the axis/ which now i see is better done using 100$ PLC/ So i was between CSMIO and some others, when i saw the 8 axis Galil for 450$ versus the CSMIO which is 800euro. Thats why. Boy, what a mistake. But still exactly what i was saying. I could have payed even for the plugin, but when no support for second hand Galil..  In fact i received once support, not on second question i asked. So i sold it.


What i was saying was that now there are better solutions

Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: tonyfoale on April 21, 2017, 03:16:46 AM
Tony,

Unfortunately, there is no demo version of the Mach 4 plugin.  I will see if I can implement that.

Steve

Steve,
Many thanks, I'll wait to hear. Are we talking days, weeks or months for that to happen?
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: eddyde on May 01, 2017, 05:52:51 PM

I would tend to want to keep that good stuff too!  I know the cost of a newer Galil is an impediment.  Especially if you have a 21x3 at the moment.  But I can promise you that you will be MUCH happier with the 41x3.  It is simply a better controller than the 21x3 for a milling machine motion controller.  It will do the rest of the machine justice. 

Perhaps you can sell the 21x3 and put that towards a 41x3?  Then you could run Mach 4 or Mach 3 and choose the one you like best.  Just keep in mine that if you want to control the spindle from the Galil, you need to get one extra axis on the Galil.  I suggest a 4153 for milling machines if you EVER think you might want to run a rotary 4th axis. 

I have a 4080 on my machine running Mach 4.  It is poetry in motion!  It is a Matsuura that originally had a YASNAC control on it.  One of the I/O boards went out on it and I decided to retrofit it to Mach instead of just buying a replacement board for the YASNAC.  Best decision I every made!  Mach4/Galil blows that YASNAC away!  Now, it took a lot of work and I had to buy a Galil, but the costs were not that much more than buying the replacement board for the YASNAC on the surplus market.  My only regret is the purchase of the 4080 instead of a 4153.  The 4080 is so overkill it isn't even funny. 

Steve

Thanks for all the above commentary, it is very helpful. I am in the process of converting a Bridgeport size mill to CNC. I have brushed DC servos and want to use a "dual loop" setup (linear encoders on the ways and rotary encoders on the motors), for backlash compensation the Galil supports this. That's why I bought my 2240 (eBay) I now realize, If I want this to work as best as possible, I will need to upgrade to a 41x3, I will buy new from Galil, at this point, it will be worth it.

I just want to be sure there are no compatibility issues using dual loop setup on a 41x3 with Mach 4?

Many Thanks.

Eddy
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: tonyfoale on May 01, 2017, 06:31:38 PM

Thanks for all the above commentary, it is very helpful. I am in the process of converting a Bridgeport size mill to CNC. I have brushed DC servos and want to use a "dual loop" setup (linear encoders on the ways and rotary encoders on the motors), for backlash compensation the Galil supports this. That's why I bought my 2240 (eBay) I now realize, If I want this to work as best as possible, I will need to upgrade to a 41x3, I will buy new from Galil, at this point, it will be worth it.

I just want to be sure there are no compatibility issues using dual loop setup on a 41x3 with Mach 4?

Many Thanks.

Eddy,

Eddy,
I can't answer your specific question and I am at a bit of a loss as to why you would want two types of displacement detection, but I can tell you what I have.
I have linear glass scales for displacement. DC servos with tachos for velocity info. which are fed back directly into the motor controller cards for the D in PID. Then the glass slide outputs are fed into the Galil card for the PI.
So in effect there are two loop closures, velocity closed within the motor controls and displacement closed within the Galil system.
The motors, tachos and motor controllers are from the original setup and the velocity feedback gain was optimized when built, so when using the Galil software to tune the servos I only have to worry about the P and I terms. D is set at zero.
It works OK with Mach3
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: smurph on May 02, 2017, 12:54:47 AM
Eddy,

This question would best be posed to Galil.  There are restrictions on dual loops setups.  For instance, the rotary encoder has to have more counts than the linear scale.  Also, Galil may charge a fee if special firmware is needed.  So talk to their pre-sales support to clarify this stuff.

Steve
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: smurph on May 02, 2017, 12:56:13 AM

Steve,
Many thanks, I'll wait to hear. Are we talking days, weeks or months for that to happen?

Well...  I was hoping soon but I just got another project that will delay the Galil plugin demo.  Maybe a moth?  It is very hard to say.

Steve
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: eddyde on May 02, 2017, 01:32:41 PM

Eddy,
I can't answer your specific question and I am at a bit of a loss as to why you would want two types of displacement detection, but I can tell you what I have.
I have linear glass scales for displacement. DC servos with tachos for velocity info. which are fed back directly into the motor controller cards for the D in PID. Then the glass slide outputs are fed into the Galil card for the PI.
So in effect there are two loop closures, velocity closed within the motor controls and displacement closed within the Galil system.
The motors, tachos and motor controllers are from the original setup and the velocity feedback gain was optimized when built, so when using the Galil software to tune the servos I only have to worry about the P and I terms. D is set at zero.
It works OK with Mach3


Thanks, I am pretty sure I can use the rotary encoders as tachometers (as read on other forums). I have heard of doing it the way you have your machine set up, What kind of accuracy are you getting with your system? The difference is with what I want to do, both the motor and linear encoders go to the Galil. Galil has lots of info on this setup, that's what lead me to them.
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: eddyde on May 02, 2017, 01:42:49 PM
Eddy,

This question would best be posed to Galil.  There are restrictions on dual loops setups.  For instance, the rotary encoder has to have more counts than the linear scale.  Also, Galil may charge a fee if special firmware is needed.  So talk to their pre-sales support to clarify this stuff.

Steve

Thank you, I will talk to Galil before ordering. I was just wondering if there were any known conflicts with Mach 4 software specific to running a dual loop system.
Good to know about the encoder counts... Thanks!
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: jmhx2 on July 14, 2017, 07:22:59 PM
Any progress on a demo license for the mach4 plugin? I have been using Mach3 with a DMC-1880 for a few years and have some time to play with Mach4 upgrade (demo).
I know it is not supported but I have tested contour mode with the DMC-1880 and it has worked smooth. It did conflict with my probing macros, that's why I thought it would be good to test on a fresh install of Mach4.
Thanks,
Jon
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: tonyfoale on February 05, 2019, 05:48:08 PM
Tony,

Unfortunately, there is no demo version of the Mach 4 plugin.  I will see if I can implement that.

Nice work on that variable J head!  You managed to get rid of all the noisy parts quite nicely.  :)  i have replaced so many of those bushings i lost count.  I much prefer a pulley J head because of the noise those things will start making.  And they will get noisy pretty damned fast.  Just watch the spindle bearings and make sure they don't heat too much at those speeds!

Steve

Steve,

It has been a while since I have checked in to the forum.  I see that much progress has occurred with the Mach4 Galil plugin, but that the DMC 2143 has not been tested yet.  I am still willing to do this if you can release a demo version of the plugin.  You will understand that I am unwilling to buy the plugin until I am sure that it will work. 
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: airnocker on July 03, 2019, 03:20:33 PM
Steve,

I'd like to refresh this topic on the Mach 4 Galil plugin working with DMC-2100 or 2130 controllers over Ethernet & TCP/IP.  I am in the process of helping a friend trying to implement the Mach4 Galil plugin with the Mach4 Hobby version and Windows 10 OS.

We can ping the DMC on a local, isolated network with the PC but it is not discovered by the Galil plugin.

Additionally, when the plugin was downloaded using the IE browser from the Arsoft download page it came down as a ZIP file extension, the contents of which did not contain a file with the .m4plugw extension but rather .m4pw along with 2 .DLL files.  Whether we changed the plugin extension or not, the error when attempting to add this plugin was "not a valid zip file format" or words to that effect.

That's when I decided to just select the ZIP file in the Plugin "Add" process and it then it loaded.

I download the Mach4 Galil plugin with another PC and then and only then was the downloaded file named "mcGalil.m4plugw".

BTW: The Galil is used in conjuction with a ICM 1900 connected to two Kollmorgen drivers and AKM AC servos in a X,Z axis solution.  The DMC-2130 can be configured and operated successfully by the Galil Tools software.

Can you or anyone shed some light on this?

Much appreciated,

airnocker
______________________________
Everything depends on everything else
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: smurph on July 03, 2019, 08:04:43 PM
The Mach 4 plugin REQUIRES that the Galil GDK be installed (to get the GCAPS service) on 64 bit machines.  This is most likely why the plugin doesn't discover the Galil.  You will have to remove all Galil config entries in the profile's Machine.ini, make sure that the GCAPS service is installed and running, and then try to configure the Galil plugin again. 

However, only 41x3 and 40x0 controllers are officially supported with the Mach 4 Plugin.  None of us have any of the older controllers to fully test it out.  So your mileage may vary.  And we really don't have any plans to try and support them.  They may work, but they might not.  :( 

m4plugw is what we call a plugin package.  It is basically a zip file.  You can rename it to .zip and open it up.  Or you can use it to install the plugin from the plugins tab in the control config dialog.  Similarly, if you change the name of a .zip file to m4plugw.  Vice verse.   

Steve
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: airnocker on July 03, 2019, 08:38:36 PM
The Mach 4 plugin REQUIRES that the Galil GDK be installed (to get the GCAPS service) on 64 bit machines.  This is most likely why the plugin doesn't discover the Galil.  You will have to remove all Galil config entries in the profile's Machine.ini, make sure that the GCAPS service is installed and running, and then try to configure the Galil plugin again. 

However, only 41x3 and 40x0 controllers are officially supported with the Mach 4 Plugin.  None of us have any of the older controllers to fully test it out.  So your mileage may vary.  And we really don't have any plans to try and support them.  They may work, but they might not.  :( 

m4plugw is what we call a plugin package.  It is basically a zip file.  You can rename it to .zip and open it up.  Or you can use it to install the plugin from the plugins tab in the control config dialog.  Similarly, if you change the name of a .zip file to m4plugw.  Vice verse.   

Steve

Steve. thanks for your prompt response! We understand the Mach4 Galil Plugin support caveats and understand the plugin may or may not work with the DMC-2130.  We have no option at the moment but to try it.  I will download the GDK and install it, zero out the Galil config entries from the profile's Machine.ini, then go from there.

On the plugin package renaming the .zip file to .m4plugw....been there, done that and it did not work.  It did like the .zip file though by faking out the 'Add' dialog box to display all files by entering *.* then selecting the .zip file.

I thought it very curious and strange, however, that one computer downloaded the plugin as a .zip package and a different computer downloaded the plugin  as a .m4plugw extension from the same Mach4 Galil Plugin download page.

Again, thanks.

Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: smurph on July 03, 2019, 11:08:42 PM
https://www.machsupport.com/ftp/Mach4/Plugins/Galil/mcGalil.zip

That is a newer plugin.  Just unzip the contents into the plugins directory. 

Steve
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: airnocker on July 03, 2019, 11:56:59 PM
https://www.machsupport.com/ftp/Mach4/Plugins/Galil/mcGalil.zip

That is a newer plugin.  Just unzip the contents into the plugins directory. 

Steve

Thanks for clarification.

Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: airnocker on July 06, 2019, 12:59:29 AM
Here is an update on our efforts mentioned a few posts back regarding Mach4/Galil Plugin, Galil DMC-2130 with an ICM-1900.

My friend is using a older version of the Galil Tools DTK (I forget what it is called) to configure and run Terminal command line tests, which worked just fine.  It turns out the reason why, when we tried to configure the Mack4 Galil plugin, the DMC's IP address did not appear in the Detected Devices section was because the DMC happened to be powered down (while all other machine electronics were powered up).

Tonight, after running successful tests with the tool's Terminal window, sending commands for ON/OFF tests, changing RPMs of the servos, changing
their RPMs etc, for sure the DMC was powered on.  We opened Mach4, clicked Configure>Plugins>Galil and the DMC magically appeared in the Detected Devices.

We could then select it, ">>" (move it) over to the Registered Devices side, select it on that side and click Edit Settings and were able to access all Galil config tabs and parameters to edit and save a Profile name.

Having read some of smurph's other excellent and informative post here https://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php?topic=26396.msg187197#msg187197 (https://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php?topic=26396.msg187197#msg187197) about how the servo's encoder outputs should be connected to the encoder inputs of the DMC/ICM and NOT the servo drive's encoder inputs, in order to the PID filter tuning to be part of the Galil/Mach4 DRO loop for best positional accuracy results, this brought up a new question.

The two servos are Kollmorgen AKMs 3 phase, High Voltage AC driven by their own S200 drives, one for an X-gantry and one for a Z-gantry.  These servos came with encoders with 13 signals associated to the 15 pin D connector.  In addition to the standard A+,A-,B+,B-,Z Index, Z index Reference,+5VDC, +5V Common, there are two Temperature sensing lines and U,X,Z signals for the three phase drive windings.  Now I can see the benefit to the Kollmorgen closed-loop servo drive, encoder speed/position feedback along with having winding feedback and servo temperature monitoring, but with these Kollmorgen AKM servos, can they work properly without the encoder signals connecting back to the S200 drivers?

2nd, are there other HMI CNC machine controllers that Kollmorgen servos and drivers work with besides Mach3/4?

Thanks again for any feedback.


Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: joeaverage on July 06, 2019, 05:57:38 AM
Hi,

Quote
but with these Kollmorgen AKM servos, can they work properly without the encoder signals connecting back to the S200 drivers?

I'm not familiar with Kollmorgen servos, my experience is with Allen Bradley servos. I suspect that the servos would not, in fact
could not operate without the encoders connected and working.

Leave aside for the moment that how would the drive know when to commutate the stator windings but without the encoder the
drive has no means to determine the rotor position so it cannot then calculate the phase currents necessary to produce
a stator field in phase quadrature to the rotor and produce torque thereby.

It is absolutely fundamental to Field Oriented Control AC servos that the rotor position is known to the drive, be it an encoder
or a resolver. Without rotor position there can be no quadrature stator field. Texas Instruments do a truly excellent
video on Field Oriented Control.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdiZUszYLiA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdiZUszYLiA)

Modern servos ABSOLUTELY require a matching drive. As such the motion controller can just be open loop step/direction,
it need not be a feedback controller. The servo and servo drive manufacturer does a superb job of matching the servo
and drive feedback loop. In all fairness they do a better job of it than you or I can do and exceed the capabilities of even
top motion controllers like Gallil.

My Allen Bradley servo for instance has thermal parameters such that the drive can model the thermal performance of the
servo. Even more amazingly the servo has piecewise linear magnetic coefficients so the drive can model magnetic saturation
effects which incidentally feed into the thermal model. Such sophistication of thermal and magnetic modeling is
just that much more advanced than any motion controller.

The trend in CNC is that servo and servo drives are getting smarter and smarter.

Once upon a time servo drives were just amplifiers. The motion controller monitored the encoder/resolver; enacted the
feedback loop and outputted a precision analogue voltage to the servo amplifier. The servo drive was dumb, or maybe had
a velocity feedback loop at best.

More recently servo drive itself monitors the encoder/resolver, enacts the feedback loop and drives the servo directly. The motion
controller need only be open loop step/direction type. Think Mach3 and Mach4. The servo drive now has all the feedback
tuning including the thermal and magnetic modeling I've already mentioned. The servo drive is smart.

More recently still with Ethercat, Profinet, CANOpen and others the servo drives are becoming motion controllers in their
own right. Thus you don't have a motion controller at all, your PC becomes the trajectory planner and is the
Ethercat master while each of the Ethercat slaves (each servo drive) does it own motion control. This is called 'distributed
motion control'. It IS THE COMING THING. The servo drive is now smarter than the controller!

When you log onto the Mach forum you may have noticed a video of a Matsura VMC doing a job. What you may not have noticed is
the Mach4 is the trajectory planner with KingStar/Interval Zero RTX64 providing the software to make Mach4 and the PC
an Ethercat master. So that Matsura is running WITHOUT A MOTION CONTROLLER!!!

The days of sophisticated feedback controllers like Hicon and Galill are numbered, why would you bother with expensive
realtime hardware when you just need a little extra software and some Ethercat capable servos?

As I said, the trend is for servo drives to get smarter and smarter......what happens next???

Craig
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: airnocker on July 06, 2019, 12:24:52 PM
Thanks Craig.  My immediate experience is with stepper motor CNC solutions but have closed-loop servo experience in the laser scanning world, so I understand AC or DC servo with or without encoder. feedback.

What you've stated reflects much what I've gleaned reading the manuals on the Kollmorgen S200 series drivers and AKM related servos & encoders.

The need is to use a bipolar + & - 10v analog signal from two Mach4 DRO axes to tell the servos to move.  The Galil DMC-2130 and ICM-1900 were only used as an Ethernet based breakout board solution for these analog signals and travel and home limit switches.

So am I understanding correctly that we do the servo response PID tuning using the Kollmorgen servo/amp tuning software so the driver config parameters are stored/saved and loaded on driver power-up, then use Mach4-to-Galil plugin config to send Step/Dir DRO parameters that ARE the + & - 10v analog drive signals imitating from the DMC to the Kollmorgen drivers? 

And, in this way Mach4 is just the trajectory planner.

Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: joeaverage on July 06, 2019, 03:06:33 PM
Hi,

Quote
The need is to use a bipolar + & - 10v analog signal from two Mach4 DRO axes to tell the servos to move.

Why do you need analogue voltages?

Most modern servos can still be driven by an analogue voltage but that requires a feedback capable motion controller.
In this setup the encoder is still hooked to the servo drive, as I explained earlier the encoder is required by the drive
to compose it output. The encoder, or some derived signal from it, is outputted to the controller. The controller
closes the loop. The controller outputs a precision analogue voltage and the servo turns at a speed determined by the
voltage. The servo is in velocity mode.

The same servo could be in position mode. In this set up the position is commanded by Mach4/Galill as a series of
step/direction pulses. The servo drive accumulates those pulses and therefore knows where is it supposed to be.
It compares where it supposed to be to where it actually is (by the encoder) and drives the servo accordingly.
The PID tuning is done entirely within the servo drive. The controller has no need of the encoder signal at all.

If  Mach4 decides that it needs to drive an axis 100mm in the +direction it will plan the trajectory as a series of
P(osition)V(elocity)over T(ime) data packets in 1 ms slices. The motion controller will convert the PVT data to step/direction
pluses for all servos.

At the beginning of the move Mach will plan to accelerate the axis smoothly before reaching it ultimate speed. The servo
and drive are assumed to be capable of the acceleration and ultimate speed required. If the servo can't keep up with the
planned trajectory then the drive will fault 'following error'.

In this way Mach4/Gallil are an open loop controller only. It provides the trajectory which is converted to step direction pulses
and the servo just goes there. If it can't it will signal that with a following error fault. This is a more modern control setup. It means
that the motion controller does not have to be feedback capable. The only feedback capable controllers that work with Mach4
(Gallil, Hicon Integra, CSMIO/A) are all expensive, the cheapest is 600Euro. By comparison the plain open loop step/direction
motion controllers (Ethernet SmoothStepper, UC300, UC00, UC100,57CNC, 57CNCdb25,PMDX-411, PMDX-242) range from
$120 to $250.

The Ethercat solution which is being developed for Mach4 requires two pieces of software for your PC only. RTX64 by
Interval Zero provides a realtime core capability to your non-realtime Windows PC and KingStar provide the plugin
that makes Mach4 an Ethercat Master. The servo drives (all Ethercat slaves) are connected by a daisy chain of Ethernet
cables.......and that's it. No expensive hardware controller required!

You may have noticed that you can hook limit switches to your drive, you don't have to hook them to the controller at all.
The servo drive is smart enough to handle that. It is in fact a required feature that any servo drive must be able to do
if it is ever to be Ethercat slave capable. That is to say that the servo can act autonomously.

Craig
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: airnocker on July 06, 2019, 08:47:09 PM
Quote
Why do you need analogue voltages?

Most modern servos can still be driven by an analogue voltage but that requires a feedback capable motion controller.
In this setup the encoder is still hooked to the servo drive, as I explained earlier the encoder is required by the drive
to compose it output. The encoder, or some derived signal from it, is outputted to the controller. The controller
closes the loop. The controller outputs a precision analogue voltage and the servo turns at a speed determined by the
voltage. The servo is in velocity mode.

Good question.  I'm stepping in to someone else's configuration of parts and pieces that thus far are not working with a 20 year old Galil DMC-2130 controller using its ICM-1900 breakout board.  The 2 servo drives: Kollmorgen S20360 and S20260, the 2 3 phase high AC servos: Kollmorgen AKM42G-BKCN2-01 and AKM-BNBN1-00.  Both of these drivers can access digital or analog velocity signals.  Analog velocity signals can be differential or single-end, bipolar.  If the drives are enabled they should respond to their analog velocity input.

There is no external controller (that we know of) that works with these drivers and servos and Mach4.  I'm very familiar with Mach3 but new to Mach4 as of 4 days ago.

The servos and drives work great for the most part when controlled by Kollmorgen's OC Tools Windows app communicating via RS-232 between PC and Drivers.  Each servo encoder feeds back to it respective driver.  Control is "digital" in this scenario using the OC Tools app for tuning, etc.  Each driver "offers" additional access to the 6 encoder signals for Ch. A, B and Index from each driver through a mass termination connector.  Presently, these "auxiliary" encoder connections are connected to the X and Z axis encoder inputs on the ICM-1900 terminal block which feeds into the DCM-2130 controller.  I am hoping this is what you mean when you say
Quote
The encoder, or some derived signal from it, is outputted to the controller.

BTW: This DCM controller's servo driver boards are disabled and not used to drive any servos.

The DCM connects via Ethernet to the Mach4 PC's isolated Ethernet LAN via TCP/IP.  With the Mach4 Galil Plugin and Galil Tools installed that provide s TCP communications between the plugin and the DCM very basic communications are confirmed in that the plugin "detects" the DCM by IP address, allows the DCM to become a "registered" device and thereby allows access to the Galil device configuration screens.

No, the author of the plugin states that the Mach4 Galil Plugin may or may not work with the DCM-2130 even though it did with the Mach3 Galil Plugin.

So, we are optimistically hopeful the plugin works.  But first, making sure Mach4 is setup correctly with the servo/encoder scenario is my first priority.

Many thanks Craig!

Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: the_buff on July 08, 2019, 08:51:51 PM
https://www.machsupport.com/ftp/Mach4/Plugins/Galil/mcGalil.zip

That is a newer plugin.  Just unzip the contents into the plugins directory. 

Steve

I noticed with the latest version an option for "Use Direct Data Record" is now available.  Any chance it will cause probing to miraculously begin to work?
Title: Re: Galil controller compatability (what works with the plugin)
Post by: Keshka on September 24, 2019, 04:27:20 PM
The manual for the Galil DMC-4080 describes how the device handles RS-485 packets and has the ability to communicate using this protocol. Does Mach4 and the Galil plug in support RS-485 via the DMC?