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Author Topic: Novice to Mach3, may be asking too much??  (Read 14989 times)

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Novice to Mach3, may be asking too much??
« on: July 01, 2016, 05:37:57 PM »
I am a machine tool service engineer for a living, working on mainly FANUC controlled machines from 2 to 9 axis.
However at home I hoard machine tools from the turn of the century up to the 90's, which I use when commitments permit to build a scale model traction engine.
I'm at the stage now where I have a lot of parts to turn with radius's, tapers, fillets etc. I had begun to fit a hydraulic type copy attachment to my manual Colchester to produce these, when this happened...

I've been very lucky to aquire an absolutely mint 2 axis CNC lathe built by Brazian firm ROMI circa 1995. The cast iron itself is immaculate, however it is fitted with a Bridgeport EZ PATH control which has failed. Parts for the control are scarce and expensive ex USA.
A friend in Wales has been running a small stepper driven lathe with Mach 3 for years and swears by it, so I'm intrigued.
Can I source a solution to fit mach3 to my machine.
It has SEM 140v dc brushed motors
Electronic pulsed hand wheels.
Heidenhain rotary encoder for spindle speed feedback.
Could I integrate something that will drive these motors?
Could I use existing drive cards?

I would be great full for any help, advice or direction to research please.
EZ TRAK WAS THE MORE COMMON CONTROL VARIATION FITTED TO MANY TURRET MILLS. THE LATHES SEEM TO BE LESS COMMON. MY VERSION DOES NOT HAVE SPINDLE CONTROL.
THANKS.

Offline Hood

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Re: Novice to Mach3, may be asking too much??
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2016, 06:21:06 PM »
I will assume that the drives/amps need a  +/- 10v analogue signal, so your options are reduced to a few different controllers if you wish to keep them (I would recommend you do)
The options are
CSMIO/IP-A
DSPMC
Kflop with Kanalog
Galil

I only have experience with one of the above controllers, the CSMIO/IP-A but I love it. For a lathe however there is a drawback, there is a delay in the pullout at the end of threading which cuts an annular groove. If that is not a problem to any parts you will thread then I would say it would be a good choice.

I know the guy that did the Galil plugin for Mach eventually found a way round this issue but how I have no idea.

Not sure if the DSPMC and Kflop also suffer with the problem or not but it is only present when using full encoder for threading rather than the more common single pulse per rev.

Here is a vid showing the small lathe I had which was fitted with the CSMIO/IP-S (Step/Dir rather than analogue) I am just demonstarting the threading by rotaing the chuck by hand to show how it follows extremely well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-KlHFYxzkM

Rigid tapping is also possible with the CSMIO/IP-A and S  controllers, never did it on the lathe but here is a vid of the Chiron I have which uses the CSMIO/IP-A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNL2XdsJz2E

To do rigid tapping and lathe threading with the CSMIO you also require the Enc Module and if using a handwheel you need the MPG module. With the MPG module and the CSMIO the handwheel will be like you have on machines like Fanuc, with Mach and most other controllers the handwheel is quite a bit different and not as nice in my opinion.

Now your encoders may or may not be an issue, it depends on their output, if the are the uAmp or 1vpp type then they will be no use with the CSMIO and would need replaced, likewise your handwheel. If they are 5v square wave then they will be fine.
Hood
Re: Novice to Mach3, may be asking too much??
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2016, 03:07:52 AM »
Many thanks for your reply. There's plenty there for me to go away and research and check out on my existing hardware. I'll report back.
Cheers.

Offline Davek0974

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Re: Novice to Mach3, may be asking too much??
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2016, 03:24:44 AM »
Hiya Chaos, we may know each other already, are you on the Traction-Talk forum? I did things the other way round - I built two and a half traction engines (3" Little Samson, 6" Little Samson and a lot of a 6" Burrell GMT) on the manual equipment then started to learn and build CNC :)

I am now converting my Bridgeport mill to cnc with the CSMIO/IP-A and MPG module.

Do your motors have encoders or resolvers on them? We have a machine at work that has 140v SEM motors but has resolvers which i don't think work with any modern controllers.

Bridgeport Mill, Mach3 V062, CSMIO-IP/A controller, AC Servo Drives.
Plasma table, Mach3 V062, Step motors, C&CNC THC.
Re: Novice to Mach3, may be asking too much??
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2016, 04:15:51 AM »
Hi Dave,
Yes I bought your 5DP INVOLUTE GEAR CUTTERS!
I believe they are optical encoders, similar to what's used on my XYZ Protrak Miller. But without looking for my self, it's an assumption. They have the following connections.
+5v supply
XA+
XA-
XB+
XB-
XI+
XI- 
Both motor encoders are 1000 PPR. Motors are 9v = 3000.
X MOTOR =14 LB/IN 3.9A
Z MOTOR =26 LB/IN 8.6A

How far along are you? I would really appreciate some guidance. Are you using a modern PC or something with LPT port?

Hand wheels are 600PPR and spindle encoder is 1250PPR

Offline Hood

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Re: Novice to Mach3, may be asking too much??
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2016, 04:56:39 AM »
Those encoders should be fine :)

Dave is using the CSMIO/IP-A controller, it connects to the computer via Ethernet.

Hood

Offline Davek0974

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Re: Novice to Mach3, may be asking too much??
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2016, 05:53:02 AM »
Ah, gear cutting, those were the days :)

I'm at the stage where i am fitting the motors to the machine - lots of fiddly machining and fitting up.

I already have a servo and drive connected up to the CSMIO on the bench and also got Mach3 running it nicely with my hand pendant MPG etc, I have also sketched up a wiring diagram for the safety circuits etc.

I am also working to fit my 24k spindle on to the mill as an aux spindle so i can do engraving etc, I currently have a mini-mill i built with it on but space is tight and if one machine can do both tasks then its a no-brainer.

I get my PC's from eBay, usually around £15 each for a Dell Optiplex etc, always have at least one on the shelf as a spare.
Bridgeport Mill, Mach3 V062, CSMIO-IP/A controller, AC Servo Drives.
Plasma table, Mach3 V062, Step motors, C&CNC THC.
Re: Novice to Mach3, may be asking too much??
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2016, 08:34:01 AM »
Dave,
Would it be ok to give you a ring one evening? I think I still have your number on an invoice or similar. I probably have some very silly questions to ask, residing the Mach side of things, since I've no prior experience.
Likewise if you get stuck on your machine wiring give a shout.

Offline mc

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Re: Novice to Mach3, may be asking too much??
« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2016, 04:46:22 PM »
I know I had issues with my KFlop being slow on pull out when running Mach 3, however I rarely cut threads on my CNC lathe, so never really looked into it. The problem I had was Mach used the feed per rev value when it switched back to mm per min, instead of using the set G1/G0 feedrate value, until it reached the end of the pul lout when the correct federate got applied.

I do know however there are a couple guys on the Dynomotion Yahoo group running Mach3 still, and they've never mentioned the slow pull out problem, but one has a problem with a seemingly mystery ~1 second pause in motion after the pull out move. I just had a quick search, and using G32 seems to avoid any pull out problems.
Re: Novice to Mach3, may be asking too much??
« Reply #9 on: July 02, 2016, 05:14:37 PM »
I'm going to focus on using the CSMIO/IP-A controller. I'm researching whether there is a modern drive/amplifier than will run my existing SEM motors.
I can't guarantee my drive cards are both good, and I'm looking at future parts availability. EZ PATH electrical components are virtually impossible to source.