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Author Topic: Mill or Turn?  (Read 4347 times)

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Offline Hood

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Re: Mill or Turn?
« Reply #120 on: May 14, 2019, 08:54:12 AM »
This is probably not really the place we should be discussing other controls so I will keep things brief.

Nice, is that controller self-contained so no pc to fail etc??
Yes self contained but on the other hand if something fails it more than likely means a new controller

Could it replace Mach3 when you have trickery going on with tool length being passed to a knee axis or is that stuff still the sole domain of Mach??

That may be possible as you have 9 user macros and the tool change macro itself which you can fully edit. Also the in built PLC can be edited if you can figure out what is in it at the moment (no comments/names)
Hows the plasma running ?

Plasma is running great, don't know how I ever managed without one :D

Offline Davek0974

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Re: Mill or Turn?
« Reply #121 on: May 14, 2019, 11:49:13 AM »
The home position is the "master tool" all tools are offset from there so it means you can replace any tool and reset the tool offsets for it and not have to worry about it messing with any other tool. As all tools are set to their respective diameters from the home position you do not usually need to alter the X value for your G54 (or other) offset. The Z G54 will need to be set for every different part you do but that is easy enough as you just call any tool you like, move it to the end of the stock and then zero the Z work offset. Doing that will mean every other tool will also now have their Z Zero work offset position as zero when they are touching the end of the material.



It works, I couldn't figure it out but once you try it, it makes sense, thanks Hood.

Next - my servo spindle drive seems odd.

At up to 2990 rpm in CS-Labs Pid tuning, it runs nicely with a low following error, about 1500 IIRC, at full speed of 3000 rpm I see a runaway following error - just carries on rising and would eventually trip an e-Pid fault on max following error i guess.

Its not serious, its only 10rpm lost but seems odd??

sounds like you have reached the 10V at 2990rpm.

I'll check that, thanks, i'll also put a tacho on it and see where its at ;)
Bridgeport Mill, Mach3 V062, CSMIO-IP/A controller, AC Servo Drives

Offline Davek0974

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Re: Mill or Turn?
« Reply #122 on: May 14, 2019, 11:50:11 AM »
This is probably not really the place we should be discussing other controls so I will keep things brief.

Nice, is that controller self-contained so no pc to fail etc??
Yes self contained but on the other hand if something fails it more than likely means a new controller

Could it replace Mach3 when you have trickery going on with tool length being passed to a knee axis or is that stuff still the sole domain of Mach??

That may be possible as you have 9 user macros and the tool change macro itself which you can fully edit. Also the in built PLC can be edited if you can figure out what is in it at the moment (no comments/names)
Hows the plasma running ?

Plasma is running great, don't know how I ever managed without one :D

Oops, my bad forgot about that ;)

Sounds interesting though, and yes the plasma table is my most used machine ;)
Bridgeport Mill, Mach3 V062, CSMIO-IP/A controller, AC Servo Drives

Offline Davek0974

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Re: Mill or Turn?
« Reply #123 on: May 14, 2019, 11:55:06 AM »
FWIW,
I also do similar to Hood's reply #112, but, no switches used here, so home and any work offsets are
set manualy.
By similar I am meaning, all tools have the same base location from which they move to touch off.
Tool offsets are probed instead of touching off or machining, taking a measurements and inputing info.
Probing makes populating the tool table quick, accurate, repeatable, and somewhat automated. BUT,
a tool setup page to accomplish the above was done.
Once a tool table is populated all tools relate to the master tool ( could be an actual master tool or
a common base location) and all tools relate to each other. Thus you can use any tool to touch off
to the work or setup to replace a tool.

Have fun.......,
RICH


I do have a probe for the milling tools but with the different styles of lathe tool i couldn't see how to make it work for me. With the low count of tools i'll need i don't think it will matter.

So using Hood's method, the tool table will be relatively safe unless the home switches are tampered with in some way?

My next question is - how do you replace a tool or add another at a later date and keep its relationship with the rest correct?

I can see how it works if you populate the library in one go but if i remove and replace the spindle etc surely i have lost my reference??
Bridgeport Mill, Mach3 V062, CSMIO-IP/A controller, AC Servo Drives

Offline Hood

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Re: Mill or Turn?
« Reply #124 on: May 14, 2019, 12:38:13 PM »

So using Hood's method, the tool table will be relatively safe unless the home switches are tampered with in some way?

Nope, you can then just use the work offset to offset the X value and that should offset for every tool. You already do that for the Z Axis every new job when you zero to the end of the stock.
My next question is - how do you replace a tool or add another at a later date and keep its relationship with the rest correct?

I can see how it works if you populate the library in one go but if i remove and replace the spindle etc surely i have lost my reference??

The relationship of each tool is to the home position and not to each other, that is why it is better than using a master tool because in that case all tools are in relation to your master tool, replace that and you need to redo all.

Not sure what you mean about remove and replace the spindle. Is your tool holder not a defined position in relation to the spindle taper?

Offline Davek0974

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Re: Mill or Turn?
« Reply #125 on: May 14, 2019, 12:44:20 PM »

So using Hood's method, the tool table will be relatively safe unless the home switches are tampered with in some way?

Nope, you can then just use the work offset to offset the X value and that should offset for every tool. You already do that for the Z Axis every new job when you zero to the end of the stock.
My next question is - how do you replace a tool or add another at a later date and keep its relationship with the rest correct?

I can see how it works if you populate the library in one go but if i remove and replace the spindle etc surely i have lost my reference??

The relationship of each tool is to the home position and not to each other, that is why it is better than using a master tool because in that case all tools are in relation to your master tool, replace that and you need to redo all.

Not sure what you mean about remove and replace the spindle. Is your tool holder not a defined position in relation to the spindle taper?

Ok, i'll test the relationship ;)

Sadly nothing is 'fixed' on my setup - the spindle is a removable fixture and the tool-post block is clamped to the quill but without 100% location radially so there may be some small misalignment each time its fitted, in the axial direction it should be good as it uses the BT30 socket as a tool would.

Bridgeport Mill, Mach3 V062, CSMIO-IP/A controller, AC Servo Drives

Offline Hood

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Re: Mill or Turn?
« Reply #126 on: May 14, 2019, 01:05:19 PM »
I would try and get some means of locking radially so that it is repeatable.

Offline Davek0974

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Re: Mill or Turn?
« Reply #127 on: May 14, 2019, 02:03:20 PM »
I'll work on that, won't be easy but there'll be a way ;)
Bridgeport Mill, Mach3 V062, CSMIO-IP/A controller, AC Servo Drives

Offline Davek0974

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Re: Mill or Turn?
« Reply #128 on: May 14, 2019, 02:51:29 PM »
Still trying to get this to gel in my head :)

I tested it out this morning with some stock in the spindle and two tools, called t0101, used a feeler and touched off the Z, stored that, same on X and stored that.

Same on t0202.

Then tried calling and touching off on t0101 and set my work zeros, called t0202 and the zeros were spot on = happy days.

But, what happens after i remove and refit my spindle or use a different bit of stock to set a new tool - the spindle has shifted and the stock has changed.

Surely the tool ref distance from home to touch position is now out of sync as regards the other tools?

I can only envisage it working if there was a point fixed in distance from m/c home - the headstock on a lathe, the face of a chuck etc - I have neither of these as all things are movable.

 ??? ???
Bridgeport Mill, Mach3 V062, CSMIO-IP/A controller, AC Servo Drives

Offline Hood

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Re: Mill or Turn?
« Reply #129 on: May 14, 2019, 04:07:19 PM »
Different bit of stock makes no difference. Call a tool, jog to the end and touch off and set the Z work offset. Note I am saying the work offset and not the tool offset. Tool offset has already been set previously so it should not require setting again other than possibly using the wear offset.

To set up a new tool at a later stage is simple, just the same routine as before except first touch off the stock with a tool already set up and zero the Z (or to feeler gauge thickness if using one) then change to your new tool, touch off on the end of the stock and set the tools Z offset as previously done with the first tools. Do the same for the X by taking a cut and measuring. New tool is now set up.

If you think you will have repeatability issues on the X due to replacing the tool post then you can load a known tool, take a cut and then measure and if different from the X value of the work offset then just change the work offset, all other tools will also use the new work offset so will also be correct.