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Re: CS Labs CSMIO/P-A
« Reply #140 on: August 03, 2018, 05:34:36 PM »
Cheers Hood

Re: CS Labs CSMIO/P-A
« Reply #141 on: August 03, 2018, 07:12:42 PM »
Hi Mick,

Quote
Thanks for the links but makes no sense to me to buy used motors when I can get branded stuff at such a great price

COST.  If I were to buy new, admitting that the drive has now been superseded, I would have had to shell out over $4000NZD for my MPL-A430H
and 2098-DSD-020 drive.

I agree that because you can buy Schnieder at such a good price then new makes sense, if you were paying list price or even with a good trade discount
on the list price (which is basically what I was offered by one of our electrical suppliers) they are still beyond my means.

My experience is that the only wearing parts of a an AC servo is the bearings. My servo came from a carpet factory, I don't know how much work its done,
but it hasn't 'worn' per se. If anything I would be more suspect of a secondhand drive, they are fairly high strung units. As you know electronics devices
don't wear in the same manner as mechanical devices, having said that it will 'let go' at some time. Allen Bradley is a superb brand and I do not expect their
device to have any design weaknesses.  Fortunately these particular drives are very plentiful on EBay and very reasonably priced if being selective even should
it 'go South' on me.

As it turns out that this secondhand unit, by the time I bought/made the cables and bought the setup software worked out about the same price as a new
Delta of the same power. Hence my recommendation to pay attention to the availability of cables and the price. Likewise I ended up buying from
our local Rockwell Automation distributor the setup software, cost $200NZD or about $120US. While I might have got a new Delta for the same money
I am very happy with the Allen Bradley, I've knocked up about 500hrs on it so far. Additionally the learning experience I got from perusing manufacturers
data, searching for secondhand units, making my own spindle complete with angular contact bearings and RegoFix toolholder has been worth any premium.

Craig
My wife left with my best friend...
     and I miss him!
Re: CS Labs CSMIO/P-A
« Reply #142 on: August 04, 2018, 07:27:22 AM »
Hi Craig

These motors do look good if not better than the Schneider ones but with Schneider only being 30 minutes from me and probably being able to get better support as they are new, I will go for the Schneider ones.
They will be more than enough for what I need and like you said a massive improvement on the DC drives. I will order the cables with the drives as suggested.

Slightly off topic, I have a huge 5.5kw spindle motor on the lathe at the moment. It's 30-year old which may explain the size. It's a three-phase motor which is a pain to be honest as I have to run it off a 3 phase digital inverter which cost me £1200 a couple of years ago. Would really like to have everything single phase and thinking of maybe using a servo on the spindle which would allow a fourth axis at some point. The Schneider single phase servos only go up to 1.5kw and 2000rpm. Is this a not starter if not using 3 phase?   
I have attached a picture of the motor plate.

Cheers
Mick

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Re: CS Labs CSMIO/P-A
« Reply #143 on: August 04, 2018, 12:57:28 PM »
Likewise I ended up buying from
our local Rockwell Automation distributor the setup software, cost $200NZD or about $120US.

Why did you buy the software? it is available as a free download or at least it was.

Slightly off topic, I have a huge 5.5kw spindle motor on the lathe at the moment. It's 30-year old which may explain the size. It's a three-phase motor which is a pain to be honest as I have to run it off a 3 phase digital inverter which cost me £1200 a couple of years ago. Would really like to have everything single phase and thinking of maybe using a servo on the spindle which would allow a fourth axis at some point. The Schneider single phase servos only go up to 1.5kw and 2000rpm. Is this a not starter if not using 3 phase?   
I have attached a picture of the motor plate.

Cheers
Mick

3Kw drives are probably about the biggest you are going to get on single phase, whether that will be big enough or not will I suppose depend on how your original motor worked. It may be a proper spindle motor driven via a proper spindle drive which tends to do better than a standard 3 phase AC motor and a VFD.
Re: CS Labs CSMIO/P-A
« Reply #144 on: August 04, 2018, 02:44:29 PM »
Hood

The motor is original I think which is capable of 6000 rpm at 205hz. The VFD was a cd500 which I replaced with a Jaguar VXM 550 when it gave up. Just thinking ahead really. Would be nice just to get the new AC  axis drives installed and working as they should. Then look at the possibility of C axis.
I believe there are other options available instead of just replacing the spindle motor like a secondary servo for accurate positioning of the spindle? The 3 phase is a bugbear and would restrict saleability to the hobbyist but need to put that on one side for now.  

Cheers
Mick

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Re: CS Labs CSMIO/P-A
« Reply #145 on: August 04, 2018, 02:58:32 PM »
You would likely get away with a smaller power motor then as  a servo will be far superior to a normal 3 phase motor and VFD.
Regarding the C Drive, you will have to check with CS Labs to be sure but I don't think SwapAxis is supported so you would probably have to have two separate profiles, one for normal spindle and the other for C Axis.
You may manage to use relays to swap between the analogue outputs for spindle/C Axis but how well that would work I am not sure as you may get problems  with following errors  as the CSMIO would see the encoder moving on the axis (spindle or C Axis) when one or other is moving and be trying to keep the other stationary, recipe for disaster I fear.
You could probably have a second encoder for the C and somehow mechanically switch that in/out  but again I don't think it would be a simple thing to do.
Re: CS Labs CSMIO/P-A
« Reply #146 on: August 04, 2018, 04:21:04 PM »
Hi Hood,

Quote
Why did you buy the software? it is available as a free download or at least it was.
I certainly looked and looked and then looked again....to no avail. This was at the time that you were on sabbatical.

The software is free if you buy new but given that I bought second hand.......I don't like spending hard earned money more than anybody
else but this purchase allowed me to make the best of another purchase, namely the second hand servo and drive, so I purchased and don't
feel too bad about it!

You can rest assured when I'm in the market for more servos Allen Bradley will figure very highly that I might reuse the software.

Craig
My wife left with my best friend...
     and I miss him!
Re: CS Labs CSMIO/P-A
« Reply #147 on: August 04, 2018, 04:38:16 PM »
Hi Mick,
Schneider have a design and production division in Christchurch, my home city as it were. I met a few of their engineers recently at an industry training
event. All nice guys and as clever as hell. They are very adept at designing and installing automated systems for food production locally and around the
world. When I spoke to them about servos they told me that even they had to pay quite steeply to satisfy their projects. I came to the conclusion, which
they generally agreed, that Schneider control the inflow of technology into New Zealand in a manner to keep the price and therefore margin high.

New Zealand has by and large no import duties or sales taxes excepting GST, rather like your VAT, and consequently we can buy stuff pretty reasonably
from any international manufacturer. That's not the case with Schneider. They are not alone.....Omron (representing Yaskawa) and NHP (representing
Rockwell Automation/Allen Bradley) have the same ethos.

They can get away with this because the lack of competition allows them to.

Craig
My wife left with my best friend...
     and I miss him!

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Re: CS Labs CSMIO/P-A
« Reply #148 on: August 04, 2018, 04:51:19 PM »
Hi Hood,

Quote
Why did you buy the software? it is available as a free download or at least it was.
I certainly looked and looked and then looked again....to no avail. This was at the time that you were on sabbatical.

The software is free if you buy new but given that I bought second hand.......I don't like spending hard earned money more than anybody
else but this purchase allowed me to make the best of another purchase, namely the second hand servo and drive, so I purchased and don't
feel too bad about it!

You can rest assured when I'm in the market for more servos Allen Bradley will figure very highly that I might reuse the software.

Craig

This is the download link I just got from a Google search, you have to register with Rockwell to get it but registration is free and painless. Seems they are only doing the latest two revisions now, they used to list all revisions of it.
https://compatibility.rockwellautomation.com/Pages/MultiProductFindDownloads.aspx?crumb=112&refSoft=1&toggleState=&versions=51858,50195

Offline Hood

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Re: CS Labs CSMIO/P-A
« Reply #149 on: August 04, 2018, 04:54:51 PM »
Just as an aside, when I got the Lexium drives I did a search for the Power Suite software for their drives and one link was to R S Components. It was, if I recall, around about the £2-300 mark which wasn't too bad as it woould have been split 50/50 with a pal as he got half of the motors/drives I bought. I then looked on Schneiders  site and lo and behold there was a free download :D