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### Author Topic: Motor tuning, please take it easy on me I'm new to this :)  (Read 1573 times)

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#### marky68

• 27
##### Re: Motor tuning, please take it easy on me I'm new to this :)
« Reply #40 on: September 11, 2019, 05:16:26 AM »
Hi
Thanks, I'm slowly picking it up

These motors are rated at 7.5nm holding torque in the spec (see attached) so I'm now confused why the graph shows only 5.5nm at zero  now.

Mark

#### marky68

• 27
##### Re: Motor tuning, please take it easy on me I'm new to this :)
« Reply #41 on: September 11, 2019, 05:23:25 AM »
There not quite as we presumed then given that graph if only 33% at 1000 rpm

"The low inductance steppers are
such that you will retain approx. 50% of holding torque at 1125 rpm so the available torque from the stepper
at 1125 rpm we estimate to be 0.5x7.5=3.75Nm. "

#### joeaverage

• 5,835
##### Re: Motor tuning, please take it easy on me I'm new to this :)
« Reply #42 on: September 11, 2019, 05:36:08 AM »
Hi,
the graphs are representative only, that they will exactly describe every motor is fallacious.

Also note that the 33% retained torque at 1000 rpm was measured with a driving voltage of 60V, the result
might be closer to 50% if you used 80V.

These motors are still many fold better than what you had. Try them out.

Craig
My wife left with my best friend...
and I miss him!

#### marky68

• 27
##### Re: Motor tuning, please take it easy on me I'm new to this :)
« Reply #43 on: September 11, 2019, 05:41:38 AM »

looking forward to seeing the difference, keep in touch re how you get on with your servo's please.

Hi,
the graphs are representative only, that they will exactly describe every motor is fallacious.

Also note that the 33% retained torque at 1000 rpm was measured with a driving voltage of 60V, the result
might be closer to 50% if you used 80V.

These motors are still many fold better than what you had. Try them out.

Craig

#### joeaverage

• 5,835
##### Re: Motor tuning, please take it easy on me I'm new to this :)
« Reply #44 on: September 14, 2019, 08:01:39 PM »
Hi,
I have taken delivery of the Delta 400W B2 series servo and drive. Its fantastic.

I was of the opinion that I would have to use a gear reduction (3:1 to 5:1) to match my existing steppers and integrated low lash
planetary 10:1 drives. The manufacturers spec on the Vexta stepper and gearbox is 705 oz.in. That results in over
1400kg (force) of stall thrust, really rather more than my machine could hope to contain. I was of the opinion that
if I had a servo/gear reduction that could deliver half, say 350 oz.in, that would be still every bit good enough for my mill.

The manufacturers spec on the 400W servo, without gear reduction is 1.27Nm (cont) or about 166 oz.in Now that I have the servo
in hand I'm thinking that I may try direct coupling it. That would save the cost of a low lash planetary gearbox which would
be advantageous. What I have discovered is that while the continuous rating is 1.27Nm the overload rating makes it behave
as if its considerably more torquey than its spec.

When you load a stepper to near its max spec it starts losing steps when it does not stall completely. A servo on the other hand
just 'digs' in and produces the torque demanded until it current overloads or faults following error. In short the overload
capacity really allows for a servo to 'punch well above its weight'.

I have to shift house over the next two weeks and so will have to put this on hold for a while....but I am extremely impressed
with this servo and drive. I want one more for the X axis, and another but with a electromagnetic brake for the Z axis.

Craig
My wife left with my best friend...
and I miss him!

#### marky68

• 27
##### Re: Motor tuning, please take it easy on me I'm new to this :)
« Reply #45 on: September 15, 2019, 03:57:07 PM »
That sounds like it's going to work well, are you looking for another 2 it sounds like you only have one at the moment?

I picked up a bargain today, a 27" touch screen monitor and large gas strut monitor and laptop arm. It's bigger than I need but for £30 it was a bargain I couldn't resist.

I'm researching into making a vacuum table now without having to buy and run a large noisy industrial type pump.

Do you know much about smooth stepper boards, I would like to get a better quality break out board and smoother stepper like the Warp9 ess one. With this i presume I can use a more modern computer with windows 10 and use the Ethernet port and drop the parallel port?
I'm presuming the pc connects to the smooth stepper with the Ethernet cable then the smooth stepper to the break out board with a parallel cable?

Hi,
I have taken delivery of the Delta 400W B2 series servo and drive. Its fantastic.

I was of the opinion that I would have to use a gear reduction (3:1 to 5:1) to match my existing steppers and integrated low lash
planetary 10:1 drives. The manufacturers spec on the Vexta stepper and gearbox is 705 oz.in. That results in over
1400kg (force) of stall thrust, really rather more than my machine could hope to contain. I was of the opinion that
if I had a servo/gear reduction that could deliver half, say 350 oz.in, that would be still every bit good enough for my mill.

The manufacturers spec on the 400W servo, without gear reduction is 1.27Nm (cont) or about 166 oz.in Now that I have the servo
in hand I'm thinking that I may try direct coupling it. That would save the cost of a low lash planetary gearbox which would
be advantageous. What I have discovered is that while the continuous rating is 1.27Nm the overload rating makes it behave
as if its considerably more torquey than its spec.

When you load a stepper to near its max spec it starts losing steps when it does not stall completely. A servo on the other hand
just 'digs' in and produces the torque demanded until it current overloads or faults following error. In short the overload
capacity really allows for a servo to 'punch well above its weight'.

I have to shift house over the next two weeks and so will have to put this on hold for a while....but I am extremely impressed
with this servo and drive. I want one more for the X axis, and another but with a electromagnetic brake for the Z axis.

Craig

#### joeaverage

• 5,835
##### Re: Motor tuning, please take it easy on me I'm new to this :)
« Reply #46 on: September 15, 2019, 05:34:39 PM »
Hi,

Quote
That sounds like it's going to work well, are you looking for another 2 it sounds like you only have one at the moment?

Yes, only one at the moment. Partly budget, partly I wished to establish how it works in practice. I may well for instance require a gear
reduction, in which case I really want to know BEFORE spending more money.

Quote
Do you know much about smooth stepper boards, I would like to get a better quality break out board and smoother stepper like the Warp9 ess one. With this i presume I can use a more modern computer with windows 10 and use the Ethernet port and drop the parallel port?
I'm presuming the pc connects to the smooth stepper with the Ethernet cable then the smooth stepper to the break out board with a parallel cable?

I've used an Ethernet SmoothStepper (by Warp9TD, don't be fooled by a Chinese ripoff) and Mach4 for five years, highly recommended. Yes you can use just about
any PC you like including laptops and 64 bit OS's including Windows 10 which were precluded by Machs parallel port.

Yes you hook one (or up to three) parallel port boards by parallel cable to the ESS.

C10 breakout boards at \$23.00 each are a cheap option. They are bi-directional. Note they do not have any relays, PWM output or opto-isolated inputs. If you want
those you have to add the handful of electronics parts to do so OR buy a more sophisticated board. I use Homann Design MB2's (from Australia) which are very similar
to the C10, ie bi-diectional, no PWM, relays or opto-isloated inputs. They are very flexible.

CNCRoom do a three port board (MB03 approx \$180) especially for the ESS, all ports are developed but require you stick with the circuit arrangements and pin-out choices
made by the manufacturer. You lose some flexibility, on the other hand you get a quality, sophisticated and complete breakout board solution in one hit.

When I transitioned from a parallel port, with which I'd had great success, to the ESS, I able to increase my G0 axis speed by 33% without losing steps and run a little
cooler. I had not expected that smoother more consistent pulses that you get with an ESS would have been that significant....but it was. As far as I am concerned the parallel port
is for those on a budget or those who just aren't bothered about a lesser standard of performance.

Craig
My wife left with my best friend...
and I miss him!

#### marky68

• 27
##### Re: Motor tuning, please take it easy on me I'm new to this :)
« Reply #47 on: September 16, 2019, 04:13:44 AM »
Sounds like I'm on the right track for further upgrades then,

The Ess smoother stepper form warp 9. A newer PC with windows 10 which I prefer and already have a spare of.

With regards to a bob, I want a decent one with plenty of connections for inputs and outputs. I want to control spindle on/off and also the RPM, The usual E stop, ideally pump on/off , a probe, limit and homing switches as well as all the axis XYZA. Feed speed control via remote hand controller.

I like the idea of going to mach4 too....

Got my eys on a few here but I presume the USB type will now work with the ESS smooth stepper if it requires parallel port connection to a bob?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3-axis-mach4-board-interface-usb-cnc-motion-control-card-2000khz/303252148651?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CNC-200-KHz-4-Axis-USB-Mach3-Motion-Control-Card-Breakout-Interface-Board/123698623045?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Spark-Concepts-CNC-XPro-V3-Control-Board-Good-condition/303286057224?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

Spec here
http://www.spark-concepts.com/cnc-xpro-controller-v3/

Now updated with this one, again doesn't mention MAch3/4

http://www.spark-concepts.com/cnc-xpro-v4-controller/

I also want a hand controller that I can control feed and spindle speed with a rotary dial/knob. I think this one will cover that.

https://www.makers-hut.com/product/mach3-4-axis-wireless-electronic-handwheel-manual-controller-mpg-usb-handle/

#### joeaverage

• 5,835
##### Re: Motor tuning, please take it easy on me I'm new to this :)
« Reply #48 on: September 16, 2019, 07:10:32 AM »
Hi,

Quote
With regards to a bob, I want a decent one with plenty of connections for inputs and outputs. I want to control spindle on/off and also the RPM, The usual E stop, ideally pump on/off , a probe, limit and homing switches as well as all the axis XYZA. Feed speed control via remote hand controller.

If you want that on one BoB then you need the MB03 from CNCRoom.

All of those controllers you have linked to are junk Chinese.....stay away from that rubbish!.

That wireless pendant is more XHC Chinese junk and won't work with Mach4 anyway.
If you want a pendant try VistaCNC. I use a VistaCNC P1A and it works with Mach4.

https://warp9td.com/
https://www.cncroom.com/
http://www.vistacnc.com/

Craig
My wife left with my best friend...
and I miss him!

#### marky68

• 27
##### Re: Motor tuning, please take it easy on me I'm new to this :)
« Reply #49 on: September 17, 2019, 08:23:19 AM »
Hi Craig

I checked with the supplier of my new motors and they have just stated the maximum rpm is 300, this leaves me way short of target velocity. Does this sound correct to you that a Nema 34 stepper is maximum 300 rpm?

Or am I getting confused as using microstepping changes the rpm effectively allowing the motors to spin faster. I've attached the 400 pulse revs as per their torque graph and one at 8 stepping.?

"Hello

The RPM is 200~300 rpm/min

How many 34HS9456 do you willing to buy?

What king of machine do you use?
------------------

Yolanda

Sales Manager

ChangZhou Longs Motor Co.,Ltd

Skype:yolanda-momo1"

"Hello
maximum RPM  is 300
How many 34HS9456 do you willing to buy?

------------------
Yolanda

Sales Manager

ChangZhou Longs Motor Co.,Ltd

Skype:yolanda-momo1"