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Author Topic: Jerky Jog before I even Code  (Read 661 times)

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Re: Jerky Jog before I even Code
« Reply #10 on: March 26, 2019, 07:49:25 PM »
alright, so instead of using my laptop from school from '05 that is POS (was great back in the day)  I'll choose option 3.

do you have a recommendation for the best smooth stepper for the money?  Do I still run my BOB in addition to this?  I'm assuming theres a ribbon cable style plugin to DB25 that I need to buy as well?  Currently just looking at a picture of warp9 ESS and it has 3 ribbon cables with an expansion port.  Do I need a BOB for each port to run each axis or does one port have the capibility to run 3, possibly 4 axis?

Hi,
that is very poor, certainly as is the parallel port would fail utterly to run your machine.

There was, of a time, a list that circulated on the forum about a number of items which could be deleted /set/optimized
for the purposes running a parallel port.

I updated to Mach4 and an Ethernet SmoothStepper 2-1/2 years ago and so have had rather less
interest in Mach3's parallel port since.

Your options are:
1) Persevere with the laptop, deleting components and otherwise optimizing it, I estimate only a modest chance of success.
2) Buy yourself another PC, a desktop model Windows7 32 bit or earlier, preferably with a built in parallel port
3) Buy yourself an external controller like an Ethernet SmoothStepper. I have a very low opinion of Chinese made
controllers, often they don't work at all or don't support all the realtime functions required and you won't get any help
form them when you encounter problems.
4) Take up knitting  :D

The advantage of a good external controller is that then you can run just about any PC you want, XP through Windows 10,
32 OR 64 bit, laptop OR desktop. If you do like the idea of an external controller may I suggest that you get one that
has a Mach4 plugin, then should you wish to update at a later time you can change without the extra cost of a Mach4 ready
controller.

Craig
Re: Jerky Jog before I even Code
« Reply #11 on: March 26, 2019, 07:58:59 PM »
Hi reuelt,

Quote
ONLY if you have "FIVE PHASE" stepper motors which is not commonly used in DIY CNC.

Wrong again, the pics I posted came from the Gecko website and is the G201 driver which is for a two phase stepper.
The other pic is from the Leadshine website again for a two phase stepper. Neither of these companies make or supply
five phase steppers or drivers.

By the way I am familiar with five phase steppers, I use Vexta 5 phase steppers on my machine.

Craig
My wife left with my best friend...
     and I miss him!

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Re: Jerky Jog before I even Code
« Reply #12 on: March 26, 2019, 08:00:28 PM »
Hi,

Quote
Dip Switches are set to 2000 pulse/rev IS DEFINITELY WRONG.

Rubbish, many stepper controllers have microstep regimes which include multiples of five or ten.

Craig
ONLY if you have "FIVE PHASE" stepper motors which is not commonly used in DIY CNC.

His steppers I guessed are two-phase. That is why he needs binary numbers (1,2,4,8,16,32) for microstep


Detailed information :

1. Nema 34 stepper motor:

Technical Specifications

Part No.:                         34HS5435C-02B2

Frame Size:                     NEMA34

Phase:                             2 Phase

Step Angle:                    1.8 degree

Current:                        3.5A

Rated Voltage:         5.6V

Resistance:                   1.6 Ohm/phase

Inductance:                   22mH/phase

Holding torque:           1600oz-in     (10.5N.m)

Detent torque:                  24.5N.cm

Rotor inertia:                3600g.cm²

Number of wire leads:   4 (Red A+ ,Green A- ,Yellow B+ ,Blue B-)

Weight:                               5kg

Length:                                151mm

The diameter for motor shaft is 14mm
"the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord"
Re: Jerky Jog before I even Code
« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2019, 08:04:30 PM »
Hi reuelt,
yes even that two phase stepper CAN be driven at 2000 steps per rev....if you would look at the information I provided
you might learn something new.

Craig
My wife left with my best friend...
     and I miss him!

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Re: Jerky Jog before I even Code
« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2019, 08:13:34 PM »
That's not right,
If you have 2 or 4 coils (2-phase motors) you cannot divide by 5 or 10
If you have 5 coils or 10 coils (5-phase motors) you CAN divide by 5 or 10.

His motors are jerky now because 2 or 4 coils cannot divide by 5 or 10.
"the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord"
Re: Jerky Jog before I even Code
« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2019, 08:22:41 PM »
Hi collincv,

Quote
do you have a recommendation for the best smooth stepper for the money?

I answered a similar question a few days ago.

https://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php?topic=39731.msg266363#msg266363

The short answer is that a UC100 or a 57CNCdb25 is the cheapest at around $120. But they are limited to one 'ports
worth' of IO, enough for the simplest of machines only.
Staring around $150 through to $200 there are several controllers with at least two ports and up to five ports worth of
IO. Several of those models require the use of a breakout board such as you already have. You may want yet another if
you want to use all those spare inputs and outputs.

Quote
Currently just looking at a picture of warp9 ESS and it has 3 ribbon cables with an expansion port.  Do I need a BOB for each port to run each axis or does one port have the capibility to run 3, possibly 4 axis?

To answer specifically about the ESS it has three ports and an expansion port. To my knowledge no one can use the expansion
port yet. If you fit just one ribbon cable to attach one BOB you will end up with exactly the same situation that you have
been using for a while, ie 12 outputs and 5 inputs. If you want to add a second ribbon cable and BoB you could have
another 12 outputs and 5 inputs, or optionally, as inputs are sought after, 13 inputs and 4 outputs.

Should you decide on an Ethernet SmoothStepper you will need a separate 5V regulated power supply of at least 500mA,
you cant power the ESS form the PC.

Craig
My wife left with my best friend...
     and I miss him!
Re: Jerky Jog before I even Code
« Reply #16 on: March 26, 2019, 11:07:05 PM »
Hi reuelt,

Quote
That's not right,
If you have 2 or 4 coils (2-phase motors) you cannot divide by 5 or 10

Yes you can and if you follow this link:

https://www.geckodrive.com/stepper-motor-controls.html

You will find the attached document......and please note this is for a two phase stepper. Gecko is probably the most
respected brand in the two phase stepper driver market, and roughly half of their designs have microstepping
regimes of either multiples of five or ten.

Craig
My wife left with my best friend...
     and I miss him!

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Re: Jerky Jog before I even Code
« Reply #17 on: March 27, 2019, 12:48:40 AM »
I think the info is misunderstood.
We are talking about discrete MICROSTEPS which is a division of a whole step. The number of magnets and coils will decide how you can divide equally. If is it not equal, the motor will only give you the nearest microstep (round up or round down) - that is why the motor is jerky.


By the way, another user who complained that his motor COULD NOT moving, took my suggestion of 1600 microsteps and everything from then works for him.

If the engine is misfiring buying better tires, and cockpit and bucket seats, and GPS is NOT going to fix the problem.
Sorry.
"the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord"
Re: Jerky Jog before I even Code
« Reply #18 on: March 27, 2019, 01:44:47 AM »
Hi reuelt,

Quote
We are talking about discrete MICROSTEPS which is a division of a whole step

That is 100% correct. The stepper driver I have pointed out to you can perform 10 steps within one fullstep.
Many thousands of CNCers around the globe do likewise, including ALL the Gecko G540 users, tens of thousands of users,
and they have ONE and only ONE resolution, 2000 step per rev. The Gecko G540 does not have any DIP switches
or similar to change the resolution....is fixed at 10 microstepps or 2000 steps per rev.

Here is a supplier a little closer to home:
https://www.homanndesigns.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=24&products_id=157&zenid=18dpasdjevd4tp8lm14a9ou8d2
Notice the description:
Quote
allowing it to run in full step, half step, 5 microstep and 10 microstep modes.

Quote
If is it not equal, the motor will only give you the nearest microstep (round up or round down) - that is why the motor is jerky.

That is wrong, in this case the OP's laptop is doing such a poor job of running the parallel port that I'm surprised the
motor ran at all. Did you see the jitter....900 plus micro seconds, the kernel period is 40 microseconds!!

Quote
By the way, another user who complained that his motor COULD NOT moving, took my suggestion of 1600 microsteps and everything from then works for him.

I remember that post, the guy had some ridiculous microstepping regime in place, something like 51200 step per rev and
consequently his kernel speed was to low to run it at all.

Craig
« Last Edit: March 27, 2019, 01:54:48 AM by joeaverage »
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Re: Jerky Jog before I even Code
« Reply #19 on: March 27, 2019, 06:06:20 AM »
2000pulse per rev is only correct if you have a 0.72deg stepper motor.
360deg /.72 give 500 steps per rev
4 microsteps then gives 2000 pulse per rev

"the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord"