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Author Topic: Machanical Automatic Tool Changer  (Read 23681 times)

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Re: Machanical Automatic Tool Changer
« Reply #40 on: October 15, 2013, 09:14:02 AM »
Yes, the documentation I have also mentioned motors with and without resolvers(?) so I don't know what I have in addition to the tachometer.
If the spindle drive is shot would it be possible to replace that set up with a regular 3 phase motor, encoder and VFD?  I believe spindle positioning only needs to be accurate within a couple degrees and as the gears mesh it will line up the spindle and ATC turret if that matters.

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Re: Machanical Automatic Tool Changer
« Reply #41 on: October 15, 2013, 11:51:34 AM »
It should be possible to use an Induction motor and VFD with encoder as the CSMIO can orient the spindle and I think it will work with a VFD/encoder setup

Hood
Re: Machanical Automatic Tool Changer
« Reply #42 on: October 15, 2013, 07:51:08 PM »
I think I might have already asked this but can I just put a new encoder on a motor?  I don't know what I have on the Fanuc motors now or if they work, and I'm also wondering for the spindle, if I would need to find a motor with an encoder or if I can just buy a ___HP 3 phase motor and stick an encoder on it.  It seems like an induction motor, encoder and VFD would be a lot less expensive than just a replacement AC Servo.
Re: Machanical Automatic Tool Changer
« Reply #43 on: October 15, 2013, 07:53:47 PM »
Heres what I have to work with at the moment, just FYI. The second machine is blue, both were "rescued" from Boeing.
Re: Machanical Automatic Tool Changer
« Reply #44 on: October 15, 2013, 07:56:39 PM »
I don't know if it is possible to tell what kind of encoder I have from how many wires there are-also hopefully if they need wires replaced that doesn't mean they're likely toast, because I have 3 spare motors with wires cut and Y on one machine (shown in picture) has some broken connections.

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Re: Machanical Automatic Tool Changer
« Reply #45 on: October 16, 2013, 03:12:02 AM »
It is hard to say for definite as to whether you could replace the encoders with others if these prove unsuitable. On normal DC motors, with analogue amplifiers being used, the encoders are only there to provide feedback to the control, the speed reference is provided to the amplifier from a tacho.
If however you were to replace the amps with other drives then yes you could swap encoders as long as the drives can accept the feedback you will put on. In other words a lot of modern drives just need encoder signals so that they can determine the speed.
So basically it all boils down to what you have and what you keep.
The info above is not really enough to say what you have and I suspect Fanuc code numbers on the encoders will not shine much light on the situation, it  is however worth a try, so if you can have a look under the yellow caps and maybe even take a pic and post here.
Not sure what your second last pic is showing as its a bit small.


If swapping out the spindle motor to an induction motor and VFD  then yes fitting an encoder is all that is needed. You wouldnt even need the encoder on the motor, you could have it belt driven from the spindle or whatever if that was an easier option. I would however say personally I would try to use the Fanuc motors if at all possible.

Hood
Re: Machanical Automatic Tool Changer
« Reply #46 on: October 17, 2013, 02:26:10 PM »
Reinspecting the spindle label I found that it says it is an "AC Spindle Motor Model 3," I think that when I was writing down all of the info I might have just assumed it said Servo and not Spindle, whoops...That makes me think that a 220V VFD should be able to replace the spindle drive if need be, is that correct?
Talking with Mmoe about his Shinx and CSMIO he said I could potentially rewire the motor drives (fanuc velocity control unit a06b-6047-h002 and h00(2/3)) to run on single phase power, any insight into how to do that?
Re: Machanical Automatic Tool Changer
« Reply #47 on: October 17, 2013, 03:04:18 PM »
I ask because I will have 220 in the shop and will be getting a phase converter but it is not the top priority.
Would I need a tach AND some other encoder for the spindle to get positioning and spindle speed control?  Also is a Z Axis brake critical, since I'm going to gut the machine I might be putting some sort of counterweight/strut into the column.

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Re: Machanical Automatic Tool Changer
« Reply #48 on: October 17, 2013, 04:18:31 PM »
The spindle motor and drive you have will likely be similar to what you would have with a normal 3 phase induction motor and a VFD. However the motor will likely be dual winding and the torque curves likely much better than that of the normal VFD/Motor.

It may well be possible to connect things up on single phase, your axis motors are DC and good chance your drives themselves actually require DC input and thus your power supply is a separate unit consisting of a transformer/rectifier and some capacitors. You may be able to connect your transformer up differently. One other thing is in the USA you have two live wires for your 220v where in the UK we have 240v single phase which consists of a live and neutral. So if you connected your two lives and then just jumpered one of them over to the third connection it may work fine. Then again I am no electronics or electrical expert so take from this what you will.

Regarding spindle positioning, it is likely the spindle drive you have at the moment has the power to do it internally, if you went standard motor/VFD then you would probably have to use the CSMIO to orientate the spindle, for that you would need an encoder and also the encoder module from CS-Lab. That is a wise thing to get anyway as it will allow you to do rigid tapping.

I think a brake on the Z is likely the best thing, even if you fit a counterbalance it may still be wise to have one. It doesnt have to be on the motor, you could fit it anywhere you can, for example on my Chiron I didnt have a motor with a brake so I retrofitted a brake to the end of the ball screw. I had an old motor I had purchased very cheaply on eBay and it had a brake, so I hacked the motor up and used the brake and the motor case, see pic below.
Hood
Re: Machanical Automatic Tool Changer
« Reply #49 on: October 17, 2013, 06:12:21 PM »
I asked about the VFD because like the other drives I am skeptical of what works, so I want to know if it would be possible to just replace it wait any other VFD.  There is already a rotary encoder run off of a belt to the spindle drive, and I assume that the large box hanging off of the motor is a tachometer or something to monitor spindle RPM.  I'm just trying to  determine the best way to figure out what does and doesn't work, I have 9 axis drives (5 on machines) , 3 spindle drives (1 on a machine), 6 X/Y motors (4  on machines), 3 Z motors (2 on machines) and 3 spindle motors (2 on machines), but the machines are in storage while I'm relocating.
Like you said earlier, a car battery should be able to turn the axis motor and verify it works easy enough, can I just use a regular 120v wall outlet to test the drive?  It wont be the power the motor needs but I'm also not trying to turn it at 2000 RPM...

I am ordering the IP/A along with the ENC and an additional I/O module so I will be able to get spindle positioning working...somehow...
My machines are small (~20" square envelope) so a handheld pendant seems unnecessary, is there some other functionality that comes out of the MPG module?  I also have seen wireless USB Mach3 pendants for $160 which is a lot cheaper than the CSMIO package so I feel like I must be missing something.

I like the idea of a brake, at work we have a servo on/off function that automatically triggers the brake (our Z axis mast is also something like 20,000lbs so its kind of necessary...) with a button, or any time we lose power, it would be nice to set it up like that so anytime the machine powers down the brake is automatically triggered, I could easily accomplish this with a relay right?