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Author Topic: Machanical Automatic Tool Changer  (Read 23690 times)

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Offline Hood

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Re: Machanical Automatic Tool Changer
« Reply #20 on: October 10, 2013, 01:15:03 PM »
As far as I am concerned the biggest drawback to the Kflop is that to do much more than the standard setup you really need to know C or maybe C++ or some other similar programming language.
The CSMIO has most options already done and is well thought out and you can use VB script  to access I/O that is non-standard to Mach.


Hood
Re: Machanical Automatic Tool Changer
« Reply #21 on: October 10, 2013, 01:46:40 PM »
I found a thread on CNCZone from earlier this year where someone (local) is using the CSMIO system, so I should be able to use that as a reference.

I also discovered after further investigation that the ATC turret is not controlled by a 4th motor, but there is actually a gear tucked away on the spindle that engages with one on in the turret, and spindle orientation will rotate the turret to the correct position.  That reduces the need for a 4th motor and drive but now it is absolutely necessary to use the existing spindle drive, or find a replacement should they be broken.  A PLC should be able to control that and the Z position correct?
Re: Machanical Automatic Tool Changer
« Reply #22 on: October 10, 2013, 05:08:48 PM »
Is there an easy way to verify that these motors and/or drivers work before I go buying drives?  Like I said I have nearly enough to build a 3rd machine out of this I'm just not sure what (if any) works and what doesn't.

Offline Hood

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Re: Machanical Automatic Tool Changer
« Reply #23 on: October 10, 2013, 05:21:24 PM »
There are quite a lot of people using the various CSMIO's just not many people posting. I have done a couple of build threads of my machines that I use the CSMIO's on. There is a CS-Lab section on this forum, just in case you didnt see it.

I am not sure if you will even need a PLC, the CSMIO has a lot of I/O and with a wee bit of work you may be able to do it all within the M6 macro.

If you can hook up power to the drives and make all connections needed (enables etc) then you can test things with  a battery box. A battery box is basically a 9v battery with a pot so you can alter the voltage. I have made a couple up before and I was slightly more elaborate in that I had 2 9v batteries and thus I could get -9v through to +9v when turning the pot.
What you use the battery box for is to simulate the +/- 10v input to the drive, this will make the motor turn and the amount of voltas and polarity of the voltage will determine how fast and which direction.

Hood

Offline mc

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Re: Machanical Automatic Tool Changer
« Reply #24 on: October 10, 2013, 06:44:06 PM »
KFlop is the main controller board with only low voltage inputs/outputs, and the Kanalog is essentially an add-on board that provides analog inputs/outputs, aswell as relay drivers (8 x 80Vmax outputs) and 8 each of 24V tolerant inputs/outputs.

The main difference between the CSMIO's and KFlop, is the CSMIO is essentially setup through Mach, whereas the KFlop has it's own configuration (and CNC) software.
For basic operation KFlop setup involves configuring axis via it's own dedicated software, then copying the generated C code into a init.c file which is then linked to Mach. Anything that relies on critical timing (i.e. such as homing where motion has to be controlled quickly on a switch change) or custom functions, have to be coded in C. There are lots of examples included with the software (you can download it from the dynomotion website and have a look at it), and Tom Kerekes provides brilliant support for any queries.
However, if you're not comfortable dealing with C code, it's maybe not the bext option for you.


As for testing drives, a simple method Tom Kerekes recommends, is a 1.5V battery combined with a 1k resistor. Connect them in series to the drive analog input, and see if the motor spins. The low voltage means things shouldn't suddenly take of, and the combination with the 1k resistor should minimise the risk of damaging anything by connecting things wrong.
Re: Machanical Automatic Tool Changer
« Reply #25 on: October 10, 2013, 08:33:32 PM »
CSMIO/IP-A has a threading module, I assume that is for rigid tapping, but that wouldn't be necessary to control spindle positioning for the ATC would it?  The spindle is an AC servo so the drive should be able to take care of that.
Would it be necessary to buy any additional I/O modules for this set up?  It can handle the 6 axes, and the only extra stuff I would be working with would be some additional limit switches for the ATC.
I'm also just wondering what kind of additional components this would require, steppers are easy and you just need a bunch of wire from the motor to the driver and then to the breakout board, there aren't really specialized plugs, PSU, etc...
Re: Machanical Automatic Tool Changer
« Reply #26 on: October 10, 2013, 10:34:12 PM »
What I would like to do would be to go bare bones on this one.  Get the minimum number of components necessary, maybe some of the lower end drivers, and see how this retrofit compares to the other conversions.  If it works great then Ill order the full package for the second machine, and whatever pieces I felt were missing for the first one. 
I should be able to get away with just the CSMIO/IP-A controller (and Threading module if necessary for the ATC) and some of the less expensive AMC drives, I have a PC and Mach3 already, so then I just need motor/encoder cables (comes with the drive maybe?), wires for limit switches, ethernet, etc... what kind of Power Supply do the servo drives run off of?  I have 2x151V, 1x165V and 1x200V, plus whatever CSMIO needs...

Offline Hood

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Re: Machanical Automatic Tool Changer
« Reply #27 on: October 11, 2013, 03:00:04 AM »
Yes you do need the encoder module for rigid tapping, in reality with the IP-A it should not be required but I think the reason I was given at the time was they had standardised the plugins and thus it was needed. Maybe in the future (Mach4) it will not be required but ......
Talking of rigid tapping, it is very nice indeed with the CSMIO, previously it was good but you had a few things you needed in addition to the M84 line, now all you need is the start position and the M84 line. Here is a video I did just the last day showing rigid tapping.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUO3pSb0JwQ

Regarding spindle orientation, that can be handled in the plugin, there is a section there that allows you to stop the spindle at any position, not sure how well it works as I have not tried as my toolchange  requires that I am spinning at  about 200rpm rather than having to stop.

You wont get encoder cables etc with the drives, you will have to make them up yourself, I would imagine you will have them already if you have the rest of the stuff fro the machines. You may have to cut off an end and wire to whatever plug the drive requires.

Power supply will depend on the drive, for example all my servo drives take mains electricity (240v single or 415v three phase, depending on the drive) Lower end drives tend to require you have a power supply and the power supply will usually have to be DC of approx the voltage you wish to output to the motors.

CSMIO needs a small 24v DC supply.

Hood
Re: Machanical Automatic Tool Changer
« Reply #28 on: October 13, 2013, 01:57:08 PM »
I feel really confident that the CSMIO is the way to go after I saw a machine with it installed running over the weekend.  I will hopefully be able to try and test some motor drives today to see what is and isn't functional-at which point I will need to determine which drives I need to order.
If the drive is not connected to a motor is there an easy way to see if it is functional?  Same goes for the motor not being connected to the drive?  You'll have to forgive me fo asking these questions as I am by no means an electrician, its all still black magic to me at this point...

Offline Hood

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Re: Machanical Automatic Tool Changer
« Reply #29 on: October 13, 2013, 02:04:58 PM »
Was that Mikes Shinx  router?
As for testing drives without being connected to motors, then not really and even if you can test some functions it will depend on the type/make of drive as to how far you can test.
Motors are dependant on type, AC servos require a drive but DC Brushed are easy to test, just connect to a car battery and they should rotate, reverse the polarity and they will go the other way. How fast will depend on the voltage constant but that is likely on the label, it will say so many volts per 1000RPM.
Hood