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Probing and touch plates - your MSM experience?
« on: July 31, 2010, 11:07:39 AM »
Hi,

I need some feedback from MSM Probing/touch plate users.

If you have tried Probing and/or touch plate features of MSM, I would appreciate it if you would post in this thread and let me know if all is well or if you are having a problem (and if so what the problem is).
Please include in the post:
    Mach version
    MSM version
   PP or SS or ?
         if SS, the plugin version in use
   Probe brand

I'm asking for this feedback because I'm aware of multiple people that are using these abilities w/o any problem – on both parallel ports and Smooth Steppers.

Yet there is one fellow for whom probing won't work. In fact he sees the spindle move in direction opposite of what the code commanded. The trace logs show one thing and his video shows another.
We'll figure it out eventually, but I'm stumped at the moment.

I would really like to know if he is the only one seeing this type of major problem or not. If there are others, more information may help find a pattern that will point us to what is happening.

Given this one repeatable (for him, I can't make it happen) major bug report, I have to say that there appears there may be a gremlin hiding someplace in the MSM probing library.  So please be careful when trying out the probing or TP facilities.

I suggest using very slow probe feed rates to start.
For TP stuff Perhaps try a mobile TP with a set Z Zero operation to make sure that all is operating fine, before you send a sharp toll headed toward the TCP TP rigidly mounted to the table…..
For Probing operations, do your first probing operations in air - use a stick (don't put your hands into the area of a moving spindle!) to trigger the probe and see that what happens is what you would expect.

Dave
« Last Edit: July 31, 2010, 11:45:12 AM by DaveCVI »
Author of the MachStdMill Extensions for Mach3
www.CalypsoVentures.com
Re: Probing and touch plates - your MSM experience?
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2010, 03:36:24 PM »
Dave,

Well, I'm still learning the settings to make everything work correctly. X and Y axes seems to work as they are supposed to, but after touching and pulling back the message "X/Y + face not found" appears in the error box.

I also haven't been able to get any Z axis motion. I get a "G-BLK with probe tool Z Zero probe, Probe op cancelled" when I activate the Z probe function.

Usually I wouldn't post without spending a little more time working to figure out what I'm doing wrong (the usual problem!), but since you asked...

Mach 3.043.010
MSM Beta 2
PP
Homebuilt Probe
Re: Probing and touch plates - your MSM experience?
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2010, 04:17:27 PM »
Hi,
1) The "X/Y face not found" is what you get if you probe and the max probe distance is reached w/o the probe triggering.
Are you sure the probe is triggering?
Does it end up at the start point after the message? If no face is found, the probe is put back to the start position. If a face is found, the probe backs off by the clearance amount. This should let you identify which case has really happened.

2) this I can help explain (I hope).
Do you indeed have both a TP and a probe connected and interfaced to the probe input?

You have the Gage block configured to be a touch plate (on the settings common page) - AND you attempted to do a Z Zero probe with the probe tool. MSM won't allow that.

For those curious, the reason this combination is not allowed has to do with how tip comp is done for probing operations.
MSM forces this to be and XOR situation, i.e., it wants to see a probe event from either the probe XOR the GBlk=TP.  This is because the Gblk case has to use a probe radius = 0, but the probe tool is mounted and we are using the probe to hit the GBlk TP.... we need to account for the Probe tip radius when using the probe tool....  MSM can't use both a zero and non-zero radius amount at the same time.

It is OK to have a GBlk be a TP - and you can use a probe also - but you can't use the probe to "touch the GBLK TP" (which won't happen electrically anyhow since all the probe tips I've seen are electrically isolated form the spindle).

You can use the GBLK TP with any tool other than the tool number you have told MSM is the probe tool.
For probing to set Z Zero:
    Gage blk (which is not TP) + non-probe tool = OK
    Gage blk (which is TP) + non-probe tool = OK
    Probe tool mounted + regular Gage BLK (not a TP) = OK
    
    Probe tool mounted AND Gage blk (which is TP) AND Z Zero probe = NOT OK

Dave


 

Dave,

Well, I'm still learning the settings to make everything work correctly. X and Y axes seems to work as they are supposed to, but after touching and pulling back the message "X/Y + face not found" appears in the error box.

I also haven't been able to get any Z axis motion. I get a "G-BLK with probe tool Z Zero probe, Probe op cancelled" when I activate the Z probe function.

Usually I wouldn't post without spending a little more time working to figure out what I'm doing wrong (the usual problem!), but since you asked...

Mach 3.043.010
MSM Beta 2
PP
Homebuilt Probe
« Last Edit: July 31, 2010, 04:24:25 PM by DaveCVI »
Author of the MachStdMill Extensions for Mach3
www.CalypsoVentures.com
Re: Probing and touch plates - your MSM experience?
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2010, 05:25:30 PM »
And, just wanted to say the probing worked great for me when I tried it.  I haven't had occasion to use it lately,so this was a release or two back of the screen set.

The one thing that did happen, that I wonder if might be at work here, was the way the probe wanted to go to home position.  The first time I tried it, I had no home switches and my machines home position was defined in a very screwy place.  Fortunately, my hand was quicker at reaching E-Stop than the probe was at reaching the vise, so no harm done, LOL!

I assume the latest routines will still want some sort of sensible home behavior, though I don't know the rules on that.  I do know that once I got my home switches going and started to "Ref All" axes when I started the machine, everything was very happy with the probing.  I'll try to run it again next time I'm in my shop.

Best Regards,

Bob Warfield

[DaveCVI: Bob is using a SmoothStepper]
« Last Edit: July 31, 2010, 07:57:16 PM by DaveCVI »
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Re: Probing and touch plates - your MSM experience?
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2010, 02:05:01 PM »
Is there some reason that when doing just a straight down Z probe with a touch plate that it probes 2 times before Z zeros out?
Thanks Eric.
Re: Probing and touch plates - your MSM experience?
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2010, 06:00:07 PM »
If you are asking why you see this sequence:
1) moves down (using Probe Fast FR), until it touches
2) moves up by Z clearance amount
3) moves back down to touch again (using Probe Slow FR)
4) Moves up by Z clearance amount

This is normal when you have the Probe Slow FR set to non-zero.

See user manual section 7.1.5.5

Dave
Author of the MachStdMill Extensions for Mach3
www.CalypsoVentures.com
Re: Probing and touch plates - your MSM experience?
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2010, 12:18:32 PM »
Dave:

Thanks for the clarification on the gage block. I still can't figure out the"X/Y Face not found".

The probe travels correctly to and touches the face, the "Probe active" LED turns on, then the probe returns to the original position and displays the "Face not found" message. (i.e., it behaves exactly the same as when I exceed the "Max Probe Distance", except it clearly senses the probe being triggered and returns to zero when it touches the face...)

Thanks
Re: Probing and touch plates - your MSM experience?
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2010, 12:36:01 PM »
Are you using a PP or a SS?
Dave

Dave:

Thanks for the clarification on the gage block. I still can't figure out the"X/Y Face not found".

The probe travels correctly to and touches the face, the "Probe active" LED turns on, then the probe returns to the original position and displays the "Face not found" message. (i.e., it behaves exactly the same as when I exceed the "Max Probe Distance", except it clearly senses the probe being triggered and returns to zero when it touches the face...)

Thanks
Author of the MachStdMill Extensions for Mach3
www.CalypsoVentures.com
Re: Probing and touch plates - your MSM experience?
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2010, 12:48:47 PM »
FYI -
see
http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,15564.msg104401.html#msg104401

for notice of a probing bug (all versions of MSMs)

Dave
Author of the MachStdMill Extensions for Mach3
www.CalypsoVentures.com
Re: Probing and touch plates - your MSM experience?
« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2010, 11:52:44 AM »
Dave,

I'm haven't yet moved up to SS..

Mach 3.043.010
MSM Beta 2
PP
Homebuilt Probe


Thanks