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BClemens

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No VFD voltage...
« on: January 19, 2009, 08:46:16 PM »
Hello again! Knew I'd be back....

This is a Bob Campbell Combo Board. I'm setting up the VFD at this point and cannot get anything out of the board for voltage for the VFD. (And: does the yellow led at the spindle button blink while the spindle is activated or does it stay on steady? - This one is blinking when on....)

The set-up was as per the version 5 PDF from Bob's site:

> config Mach3 step and dir signals - step=port 1, pin 1; dir= port 1 pin 14.
> check box 'use spindle motor output'
> check box 'step and dir motor'
> set up pullys #2 1800 RPM and #4 3600 RPM (for set up purposes 1800 should = 5V and 3600 should be 10V).
> Motor tuning set for Velocity of 60; steps per rev to 20,000 (set accell to 224)

Press enter or OK or both as case requires (have even restarted Mach3)

The test and set-up of voltage before connecting any wiring with an analog meter (doesn't move at all on ten volt scale) and digital will actually go negative during its jitters but never stays on any voltage during or without moving Vr1 on the board to set the voltage.

Check and set-up:
1. enter pully 4 and 3600RPMs
2.  - there is no item 2 anywhere on the page....!
3. ground test lead of voltmeter to TP9 (PG gnd)
4  positive test lead to TP3
5. toggle spindle on - have used the button 'spindle CW F5', M3, M4, M5 and 'spindle toggle'
6 adjust Vr1 for 10 volts - NOTHING THERE...
 then change to pulley 2 - 1800 and adjust for 5 volts.......nothing there too!

Getting tedious again over here. The motor and VFD are installed and work with the kepad on the VFD - so this is stricktly a mis set-up with Mach3, a Combo Board and ME! I've tried all I know to try. The last email I sent to Bob Campbell was never answered so seems I'm on a limb.

Seems like the paperwork that I'm attempting to use does not quite match either Mach3 (its own PDF) or the reference to Mach3 from REV5 combo board PDF.....

Thanks,
Bill Clemens

Offline jimpinder

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Re: No VFD voltage...
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2009, 05:07:36 AM »
Bill -

I'll have to answer, just to assure myself you are saved!!

This is probably no help to you - but just a bit of waffle - it might help.

Mach 3 can put out two types of spindle control - PWM (pulse wave modulation) or "Step and Direction" - in both cases, the signal put out by Mach3 has to be converted to a signal your motor controller understands. The choice of system is decided on Config/Ports and Pins/Spindle setup - top centre - motor control. If you tick "Use spindle motor output" you can them tick which system you wish to use.

Mach 3 than puts out the appropriate signals on pins as designated on Config/Ports and Pins/Motor Putputs - at the bottom under spindle (dont forget the port number or you get nothing). In the case of PWM only the "step" pin is used (direction comes out on two other pins under M3 and M4 instruction). If Campbell requires you to use "Step and Direction" then fill in both pin numbers. (Make sure Output is enabled.

That is it for Mach - no other ticks are required.

Coming to the interface with your Spindle Motor, I will describe the PWM first.
PWM is a square wave siganl at a fixed frequency i.e. it is either on "5v" or off "0v". How much of the time it is on or off is determined by the speed you want the spindle to rotate at. In my case this signal (which is on pin 1 in my system) is fed into a Digispeed comverter (Australian - see Digispeed on the net) which changes the signal into a voltage (between 0 - 10 v)  which is fed to the VFD. On my system the VFD supplies a 0v and a 10v wire to the Digispeed, and the return wire gives the corresponding voltage signal back.

On the Campbell board (I have just looked at the PDF) he has gone for "step and dir" system of control - and I think I have found an error in his instructions.
You have ticked the box "Use Motor Control" which is fine - and, I assume, you have set up pins 1 and 14 correctly on the Motor Outputs page.
What you DO NOT need to do is untick "disable spindle relays" and enter into the M3 and M4 boxes "output #1" and subsequently allocate output 1 to a pin number on the Outputs page.

As far as I understand it, if you enter pin numbers on the Motor Outputs page that is all you need. The direction signal will come out of pin 14. You do not need to repeat that - indeed it is counter productive, because, as far as I can see, both M3 (clockwise signal) and M4 (CCW signal) are allocated to the same pin - so you will get the same signal regardless of which direction you wish to motor to go. Try it with "Disable spindle relays" ticked and then test what signals are coming out of pin 1 (you can test this with a volt meter) (if you have access to pin 1 on the break out board) and pin 14. Pin 14 should change from +5v to 0v (or vica versa) when you select M3 or M4. If you have the speed of one of your spindles set to 1000 rpm, and then type S1000 M3 in the MD! line, you should see 5v appear on both pins. (You might see less on pin1). If you type in M4, pin 14 should change voltage. If you type in M5 both should go to 0v.

I do not then understand what Campbell does with  the outputs to your VFD. On mine there is a speed signal (0 - 10v) which I have already dealt with. There are then two seperate inputs (four wires - in two pairs). If a pair is connected (using a relay) I get M3, if the other pair is connected I get M4. If neither are connected I get nothing, BUT if both are connected I get an error since both M3 and M4 cannot (and must not) be signalled together to a VFD.

I could go rambling on, but I think I have said enough at the minute - come back if you don't get it fixed.



 





Not me driving the engine - I'm better looking.

BClemens

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Re: No VFD voltage...
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2009, 05:30:33 AM »
Thanks jimpinder, most kind of you... 'preciate being saved!

I had unchecked the "disable spindle relays" and I can hear them click when M3, M4 or M5 are MDI'ed into operation. I believe I have confused "output #1" on pin 1 and the "step" command on motor outputs. They are both asking for pin "1".

The Bob Campbell BOB states that "pin 1" is the "spindle step" input from Mach3 and the "spindle dir" is pin 14.

 Pin "1" just may be too busy!

Again, I appreciate the help. I understand what is supposed to happen and why, just can't seem to get it right! I might play hooky today and get this sorted out - supposed to snow today anyhow!

BClemens

This has got to "click" soon; (but at my age it's sort of a razzy sound!).

« Last Edit: January 20, 2009, 05:33:00 AM by BClemens »

BClemens

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Re: No VFD voltage...
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2009, 07:27:53 AM »
Here's what I have:

On 'Ports and Pins' - 'Spindle Setup' -

1. unchecked 'Disable Spindle Relays'
2. M3 - Output#  1  ( ---that's assigned to pin 1, port 1)
3. M4 - Output#  2  ( assigned to pin 14, port 1)

   These 'spindle on' and 'dir' relays are wired so that 24volts from the VFD enters the COM on the RUN relay (NC is unconnected) and the PDF states that the NO on the 'RUN' relay is board trace connected to the COM on the 'DIR' relay. Using that logic, I set up the VFD to receive the M3 (fwd signal) from the NC of the 'DIR' relay and M4 from the NO. So; when a run signal - either M3 or M4 is applied the RUN relay pulls in and the DIR acts according to whether it was an M3 or M4 to signal the VFD to run appropriately. That seems to be working fine.

Flood Mist Control
4. unchecked 'Disable Flood/Mist relays'
5. M7 - Output# 4   
6. M8 - Output# 3  These two will be changed at a later date - but they work now.

Motor Control
7. checked 'Use Spindle Motor Output'
8. checked 'Step/Dir Motor

Pulley ratios are set so that #2 is 1800 RPM and #4 is 3600 RPM with both set for 100 RPM minimum.

Then the 'Spindle Motor Tuning' is set to Velocity of 60 and Steps Per at 20,000 - these settings are basic to set-up the voltage adjustment on the BOB and will be set again witjh proper belt ratios.

I get no voltage - and I believe it is somewhere in the pin set-up for the motor output step signal  - Where does it enter the board?

Thanks,
BClemens

Looking at the PDF again, I see that JP1 needs to be removed IF: "your drive requires a start/run signal as well as the direction signal."
This drive requires either 24 volts on FWD or REV to start and run. No independent 'RUN' other than the analog 0 - 10 volt signal.

BClemens

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Re: No VFD voltage...
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2009, 07:32:29 AM »
So, looks like what I should have is M3 and M4 to pin 1 Output#1, and a DIR signal to M4 at the same time if M4 is selected. Output#2 to pin 14?

I'm getting a headache.

Then looking at JP1 - is the Charge Pump jumper - why are we changing the charge pump now? That was working fine!???
« Last Edit: January 20, 2009, 07:46:45 AM by BClemens »

Offline jimpinder

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Re: No VFD voltage...
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2009, 11:39:20 AM »
Yes - I am sorry. I have now read through the complete PDF file for the combo board - and it leaves me baffled.

A picture paints a thousand words is the saying - a wiring diagram would certainly have done 500 of those.

Without a board in front of me I find it very difficult to go much beyond what I was saying - other than find out what signals your VFD requires first, don't start at the Campbell board. Then work out what is going to procide those signals..

Failing that I can recommend the Digispeed. This is a seperate board, it works on a single wire (plus 5v and 0v) and provides the 0 - 10v output. It uses PWM. You can control the M3 and M4 outputs on the Campbell board (although I found even that hard to understand, and would have to look at it again.)
Not me driving the engine - I'm better looking.

BClemens

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Re: No VFD voltage...
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2009, 11:55:45 AM »
So apparently, the documentation for this Combo Board is somewhat lacking. As if I should understand how it works before I purchased it....then just proceed toward wiring it and configuring it. The PDF looks like a work in progress with many typos and missing steps in descriptions and just plain 'vaugeries'. As I said, I'm sawing off the limb that I'm sitting on. Anyhow, maybe Bob Campbell will get back to me.....I hope.

Thanks,
BClemens

Offline jimpinder

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Re: No VFD voltage...
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2009, 01:32:19 PM »
I take it he is speaking english !!!
Not me driving the engine - I'm better looking.

BClemens

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Re: No VFD voltage...
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2009, 01:52:43 PM »
Yes, the Queen's English. But with missing phrases, steps, and diagrams... And Mr. Campbell did email me back and said just enter 3600 for the speed and hit the spindle button - there will be the 10 volts....! But that is exactly what DOES NOT WORK.......I have set this up as per and hit 'spindle start' (CWF5) and the relays click but there is no 10 Volts.

BClemens
« Last Edit: January 20, 2009, 01:56:55 PM by BClemens »

BClemens

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My quary is too elementary, as if....
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2009, 02:13:17 PM »
Looks like I don't know what I'm doing. I've run into a problem that apparently I must research and either solve for myself or make a repair to this "combo board". The manufacturer even answers my lengthy question with a simple 'click here' answer as if I'm a dummy and don't really have a problem. "There can't be anything wrong with the board, we've sold 12,000 of them." Thing is; they were and still are (unless my suspicions are true) going through a constant state of REV's - this is Rev 5. I should have built my own break out board. I've spent enough time with this one, I probably could have and actually know what I have.

Sorry to be in a position to have to ask for help but if the manufacturer doesn't have the capability to help, what else can I do?

BClemens
« Last Edit: January 20, 2009, 03:54:31 PM by Chaoticone »