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Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: BClemens on January 19, 2009, 08:46:16 PM

Title: No VFD voltage...
Post by: BClemens on January 19, 2009, 08:46:16 PM
Hello again! Knew I'd be back....

This is a Bob Campbell Combo Board. I'm setting up the VFD at this point and cannot get anything out of the board for voltage for the VFD. (And: does the yellow led at the spindle button blink while the spindle is activated or does it stay on steady? - This one is blinking when on....)

The set-up was as per the version 5 PDF from Bob's site:

> config Mach3 step and dir signals - step=port 1, pin 1; dir= port 1 pin 14.
> check box 'use spindle motor output'
> check box 'step and dir motor'
> set up pullys #2 1800 RPM and #4 3600 RPM (for set up purposes 1800 should = 5V and 3600 should be 10V).
> Motor tuning set for Velocity of 60; steps per rev to 20,000 (set accell to 224)

Press enter or OK or both as case requires (have even restarted Mach3)

The test and set-up of voltage before connecting any wiring with an analog meter (doesn't move at all on ten volt scale) and digital will actually go negative during its jitters but never stays on any voltage during or without moving Vr1 on the board to set the voltage.

Check and set-up:
1. enter pully 4 and 3600RPMs
2.  - there is no item 2 anywhere on the page....!
3. ground test lead of voltmeter to TP9 (PG gnd)
4  positive test lead to TP3
5. toggle spindle on - have used the button 'spindle CW F5', M3, M4, M5 and 'spindle toggle'
6 adjust Vr1 for 10 volts - NOTHING THERE...
 then change to pulley 2 - 1800 and adjust for 5 volts.......nothing there too!

Getting tedious again over here. The motor and VFD are installed and work with the kepad on the VFD - so this is stricktly a mis set-up with Mach3, a Combo Board and ME! I've tried all I know to try. The last email I sent to Bob Campbell was never answered so seems I'm on a limb.

Seems like the paperwork that I'm attempting to use does not quite match either Mach3 (its own PDF) or the reference to Mach3 from REV5 combo board PDF.....

Thanks,
Bill Clemens
Title: Re: No VFD voltage...
Post by: jimpinder on January 20, 2009, 05:07:36 AM
Bill -

I'll have to answer, just to assure myself you are saved!!

This is probably no help to you - but just a bit of waffle - it might help.

Mach 3 can put out two types of spindle control - PWM (pulse wave modulation) or "Step and Direction" - in both cases, the signal put out by Mach3 has to be converted to a signal your motor controller understands. The choice of system is decided on Config/Ports and Pins/Spindle setup - top centre - motor control. If you tick "Use spindle motor output" you can them tick which system you wish to use.

Mach 3 than puts out the appropriate signals on pins as designated on Config/Ports and Pins/Motor Putputs - at the bottom under spindle (dont forget the port number or you get nothing). In the case of PWM only the "step" pin is used (direction comes out on two other pins under M3 and M4 instruction). If Campbell requires you to use "Step and Direction" then fill in both pin numbers. (Make sure Output is enabled.

That is it for Mach - no other ticks are required.

Coming to the interface with your Spindle Motor, I will describe the PWM first.
PWM is a square wave siganl at a fixed frequency i.e. it is either on "5v" or off "0v". How much of the time it is on or off is determined by the speed you want the spindle to rotate at. In my case this signal (which is on pin 1 in my system) is fed into a Digispeed comverter (Australian - see Digispeed on the net) which changes the signal into a voltage (between 0 - 10 v)  which is fed to the VFD. On my system the VFD supplies a 0v and a 10v wire to the Digispeed, and the return wire gives the corresponding voltage signal back.

On the Campbell board (I have just looked at the PDF) he has gone for "step and dir" system of control - and I think I have found an error in his instructions.
You have ticked the box "Use Motor Control" which is fine - and, I assume, you have set up pins 1 and 14 correctly on the Motor Outputs page.
What you DO NOT need to do is untick "disable spindle relays" and enter into the M3 and M4 boxes "output #1" and subsequently allocate output 1 to a pin number on the Outputs page.

As far as I understand it, if you enter pin numbers on the Motor Outputs page that is all you need. The direction signal will come out of pin 14. You do not need to repeat that - indeed it is counter productive, because, as far as I can see, both M3 (clockwise signal) and M4 (CCW signal) are allocated to the same pin - so you will get the same signal regardless of which direction you wish to motor to go. Try it with "Disable spindle relays" ticked and then test what signals are coming out of pin 1 (you can test this with a volt meter) (if you have access to pin 1 on the break out board) and pin 14. Pin 14 should change from +5v to 0v (or vica versa) when you select M3 or M4. If you have the speed of one of your spindles set to 1000 rpm, and then type S1000 M3 in the MD! line, you should see 5v appear on both pins. (You might see less on pin1). If you type in M4, pin 14 should change voltage. If you type in M5 both should go to 0v.

I do not then understand what Campbell does with  the outputs to your VFD. On mine there is a speed signal (0 - 10v) which I have already dealt with. There are then two seperate inputs (four wires - in two pairs). If a pair is connected (using a relay) I get M3, if the other pair is connected I get M4. If neither are connected I get nothing, BUT if both are connected I get an error since both M3 and M4 cannot (and must not) be signalled together to a VFD.

I could go rambling on, but I think I have said enough at the minute - come back if you don't get it fixed.



 





Title: Re: No VFD voltage...
Post by: BClemens on January 20, 2009, 05:30:33 AM
Thanks jimpinder, most kind of you... 'preciate being saved!

I had unchecked the "disable spindle relays" and I can hear them click when M3, M4 or M5 are MDI'ed into operation. I believe I have confused "output #1" on pin 1 and the "step" command on motor outputs. They are both asking for pin "1".

The Bob Campbell BOB states that "pin 1" is the "spindle step" input from Mach3 and the "spindle dir" is pin 14.

 Pin "1" just may be too busy!

Again, I appreciate the help. I understand what is supposed to happen and why, just can't seem to get it right! I might play hooky today and get this sorted out - supposed to snow today anyhow!

BClemens

This has got to "click" soon; (but at my age it's sort of a razzy sound!).

Title: Re: No VFD voltage...
Post by: BClemens on January 20, 2009, 07:27:53 AM
Here's what I have:

On 'Ports and Pins' - 'Spindle Setup' -

1. unchecked 'Disable Spindle Relays'
2. M3 - Output#  1  ( ---that's assigned to pin 1, port 1)
3. M4 - Output#  2  ( assigned to pin 14, port 1)

   These 'spindle on' and 'dir' relays are wired so that 24volts from the VFD enters the COM on the RUN relay (NC is unconnected) and the PDF states that the NO on the 'RUN' relay is board trace connected to the COM on the 'DIR' relay. Using that logic, I set up the VFD to receive the M3 (fwd signal) from the NC of the 'DIR' relay and M4 from the NO. So; when a run signal - either M3 or M4 is applied the RUN relay pulls in and the DIR acts according to whether it was an M3 or M4 to signal the VFD to run appropriately. That seems to be working fine.

Flood Mist Control
4. unchecked 'Disable Flood/Mist relays'
5. M7 - Output# 4   
6. M8 - Output# 3  These two will be changed at a later date - but they work now.

Motor Control
7. checked 'Use Spindle Motor Output'
8. checked 'Step/Dir Motor

Pulley ratios are set so that #2 is 1800 RPM and #4 is 3600 RPM with both set for 100 RPM minimum.

Then the 'Spindle Motor Tuning' is set to Velocity of 60 and Steps Per at 20,000 - these settings are basic to set-up the voltage adjustment on the BOB and will be set again witjh proper belt ratios.

I get no voltage - and I believe it is somewhere in the pin set-up for the motor output step signal  - Where does it enter the board?

Thanks,
BClemens

Looking at the PDF again, I see that JP1 needs to be removed IF: "your drive requires a start/run signal as well as the direction signal."
This drive requires either 24 volts on FWD or REV to start and run. No independent 'RUN' other than the analog 0 - 10 volt signal.
Title: Re: No VFD voltage...
Post by: BClemens on January 20, 2009, 07:32:29 AM
So, looks like what I should have is M3 and M4 to pin 1 Output#1, and a DIR signal to M4 at the same time if M4 is selected. Output#2 to pin 14?

I'm getting a headache.

Then looking at JP1 - is the Charge Pump jumper - why are we changing the charge pump now? That was working fine!???
Title: Re: No VFD voltage...
Post by: jimpinder on January 20, 2009, 11:39:20 AM
Yes - I am sorry. I have now read through the complete PDF file for the combo board - and it leaves me baffled.

A picture paints a thousand words is the saying - a wiring diagram would certainly have done 500 of those.

Without a board in front of me I find it very difficult to go much beyond what I was saying - other than find out what signals your VFD requires first, don't start at the Campbell board. Then work out what is going to procide those signals..

Failing that I can recommend the Digispeed. This is a seperate board, it works on a single wire (plus 5v and 0v) and provides the 0 - 10v output. It uses PWM. You can control the M3 and M4 outputs on the Campbell board (although I found even that hard to understand, and would have to look at it again.)
Title: Re: No VFD voltage...
Post by: BClemens on January 20, 2009, 11:55:45 AM
So apparently, the documentation for this Combo Board is somewhat lacking. As if I should understand how it works before I purchased it....then just proceed toward wiring it and configuring it. The PDF looks like a work in progress with many typos and missing steps in descriptions and just plain 'vaugeries'. As I said, I'm sawing off the limb that I'm sitting on. Anyhow, maybe Bob Campbell will get back to me.....I hope.

Thanks,
BClemens
Title: Re: No VFD voltage...
Post by: jimpinder on January 20, 2009, 01:32:19 PM
I take it he is speaking english !!!
Title: Re: No VFD voltage...
Post by: BClemens on January 20, 2009, 01:52:43 PM
Yes, the Queen's English. But with missing phrases, steps, and diagrams... And Mr. Campbell did email me back and said just enter 3600 for the speed and hit the spindle button - there will be the 10 volts....! But that is exactly what DOES NOT WORK.......I have set this up as per and hit 'spindle start' (CWF5) and the relays click but there is no 10 Volts.

BClemens
Title: My quary is too elementary, as if....
Post by: BClemens on January 20, 2009, 02:13:17 PM
Looks like I don't know what I'm doing. I've run into a problem that apparently I must research and either solve for myself or make a repair to this "combo board". The manufacturer even answers my lengthy question with a simple 'click here' answer as if I'm a dummy and don't really have a problem. "There can't be anything wrong with the board, we've sold 12,000 of them." Thing is; they were and still are (unless my suspicions are true) going through a constant state of REV's - this is Rev 5. I should have built my own break out board. I've spent enough time with this one, I probably could have and actually know what I have.

Sorry to be in a position to have to ask for help but if the manufacturer doesn't have the capability to help, what else can I do?

BClemens
Title: Re: My quary is too elementary, as if....
Post by: fer_mayrl on January 20, 2009, 02:34:46 PM
BCLemens,
I beleive there is no need to blow your steam here in the forum about a quarrel you have with someone.

You just posted here to talk bad about someone, if you have a probelm with him, talk it over with him, if you need help ask away and im sure people will help (i couldnt find any questions or description about what your problem is).

I can probably guess you have a problem with *********** break out board.
From my experience, (and many others) it is a very good product, and sure... maybe it can sometimes have some issues (what doesnt??) but ***** is a very helpful guy, and I am sure that if you talk to him, he will be able to help. If not, im sure there are some poeple around the forum that would be happy to help.

Regards
Fernando
Title: Re: My quary is too elementary, as if....
Post by: BClemens on January 20, 2009, 02:49:30 PM
I didn't specifically "blow steam" at anyone. But you seem to be picking something up here. Did you have something to add or answer a query or just blowing off steam?  My relations with *********** have nothing to do with this forum anyhow! I have plenty of respect for him....

Thanks Fernando.
Title: Re: My quary is too elementary, as if....
Post by: fer_mayrl on January 20, 2009, 03:05:07 PM
Bill,
Im just pointing out that there is some etiquette, that must be followed.
I sensed some hostility in your post, and no question or comment stating your issue with the combo board.

I guess what im trying to say, is that we are here to help in what we can, if we can and it is within our capabilities and knowledge.
but we need to know what kind of trouble you are having.

Best regards
Fernando
Title: Re: My quary is too elementary, as if....
Post by: Overloaded on January 20, 2009, 03:15:41 PM
Hello Bill,
   Is this topic a continuation of your other recent topic ?
Thanks,
RC
Title: Re: My quary is too elementary, as if....
Post by: BClemens on January 20, 2009, 03:49:14 PM
Yes a continuation, but I'm going to back away from this and cool off some. I beat my self against these problems hoping to find a solution on my own without having to bother anyone with them, and I have done OK that way to a great extent. This one was worked on all weekend after modifying pulleys and mounting the three phase motor and VFD on the machine, so I'm already beat down to a point that I should quit for a while - smell the 'flowers' and drink some good liquor or eat some magic mushrooms. I've tried almost every combination with this VFD problem with no success. But it only takes one solution...

Fernando : even though my demeanor was there and the jest of the post was there - I did not intend to mis-spell your name - now that I see your name in your response with large, normal sized print. The small print in the 'preview post' is too small for me and also, I have one of those names that people always spell wrong! Again thanks Fernando!! And all...

I don't mean to be hostile at anyone....just exasperated with this and getting this machine fully operational. 

BClemens
Title: Re: My quary is too elementary, as if....
Post by: Chaoticone on January 20, 2009, 04:17:50 PM
Guys, I have edited some post.

Bill, lots of good people here to help. Fernando is one of those. I hope after you take a break and come back the learning curve will seem much straighter to you. If you get upset in the future, take a step back before posting. We have a great group of guys here and we will keep it that way. I don't mind a little mud slinging if its needed and carried out in good taste but anything less will not be tolerated here. I truly understand your frustration, been there my self, I think we all have at some point. Biggest reason I believe lots of us are often here. Trying to lessen the pain of others. This forum is open to all ages and we need to try our best to stay cool. Not only for their benefit but for all others as well. I know it seems impossible at times, but you can get through it I'm sure. Were here to help.

Brett  
Title: Re: My quary is too elementary, as if....
Post by: BClemens on January 20, 2009, 05:00:04 PM
 I thought I had explained myself.... I'm wondering if there is anyone else that would like to climb my frame for posting a little bit of my anguish? Thanks for all of the kind help with THE PROBLEM!

 I also said that I was going to retire this topic....anyone else?????



Title: Re: My quary is too elementary, as if....
Post by: fer_mayrl on January 20, 2009, 05:15:13 PM
No worries BClemens, no harm done... I will merge this topic with your previous post about the VFD voltage, and lets hope someone can come up with some suggestions to see if that helps.

Best regards
Fernando
Title: Re: No VFD voltage...
Post by: BClemens on January 20, 2009, 05:44:33 PM
I appreciate the kind help but never mind right now.... I'll get back as time allows to seek out something with this problem from you grand folks. But don't bother for now.

Again, I appreciate the help and kind wishes. I'll be away for a while....

BClemens

Title: Re: No VFD voltage...
Post by: vmax549 on January 20, 2009, 07:43:33 PM
BIll this may be obvious but did you have mach set to either pulley 2 or 4 when testing??

IF you want the help we can start from the beginning and work our way out to the end.  BOBs boards have been around for a long time and have proven themselves many times(yes I use them as well) The revisions are normal board developement and is standard proceeedures for manf boards.

So the offer stands it is up to you.

(;-) TP
Title: Re: No VFD voltage...
Post by: H2 on February 12, 2009, 12:14:48 AM
For what it is worth I am in the same exact spot as Bill regarding no voltage at the signal output form the combo board Rev.  Bill has detailed my issue like he is here in my workshop...

If anyone has come up with a solution I would love to hear it.

All the best, Henry
Spindle-less in Seattle
Title: Re: No VFD voltage...
Post by: BClemens on February 12, 2009, 06:39:18 AM
Henry,

I'm going to attempt to get you through this problem - I'm no expert but BTDT...

I found that the Rev. 5 set-up guide is basically wrong. Not seriously, but just enough that if you follow it to the letter you will not be successful. Disregard checking and setting the VFD voltage on Test points 9 and 3. I'm not sure where that came from but those test points don't have a thing to do with the VFD. Go ahead and check - and set - the voltage (with 3600 rpm's entered in the "Spindle Speed" (lowest input block with speed percentage at 100%) - checking on the terminal strip on the combo-board "Spindle Speed Analog Output" on the "Connector Pin Out" page.(BTW - that is the most useful page in the entire guide.)  Check right on the screw terminals. You should be able to set the voltage to 10.0 volts using "Vr1" without any problem. (This is with the VFD NOT hooked up.) Then enter 1800 rpm's (50%) and check for 5.0 volts - that will vary a bit so not to worry there. The 10 volts is the set point because of the input to some VFD's that will not (or should not) go over frequency.  ---- This gave me the most problem...silly me trying to go by the book....

What make VFD do you have? Reason I ask is that most of them don't output much power at low speeds so after you get the initial set-up voltages correct, then play with the motor pulley settings for the ratios that you may need. You'll find that very interesting! Take notes and you'll see the logic...

Do this set-up and let us know how you are doing.....

This HOOD guy is on top of this stuff and I read his input very often. He is helping so much here that I wonder how he can multi-multi-multi-task so well. That's a big juicy one for you HOOD!

Bill Clemens   - and I'm still not done setting this machine up....trying to hold my temper as much as I can...BOOM!
Title: Re: No VFD voltage...
Post by: H2 on February 12, 2009, 10:08:08 AM
Bill thanks for the reply - I had a feeling about the test pins.... I believe I measured on the screws but will go through your process again and post back later.

I am using a Minarik DC drive board.  It had come with the machine and ran well and works off a 0-10Vdc input so figured I would leave well enough alone. 

Appreciate all your help - and understand your frustration ;-)
All the best, Henry
Title: Re: No VFD voltage...
Post by: Hood on February 12, 2009, 10:39:01 AM
Bill
 Have never set up a spindle via a VFD so probably wont be much help :(. Have a servo on the lathe and the new mill will also be a servo, the Bridgeport is VFD but its not controlled via Mach as I never got around to it and wont be doping it now as when the Beaver Mill is finished the Bridgeport will either be sold or get put in a corner and only used occasionally.
 Will read through and see if I can get a grip on what your problem is.
Hood
Title: Re: No VFD voltage...
Post by: BClemens on February 12, 2009, 11:10:08 AM
Henry,

Don't you need the PWM output for that DC motor - or maybe the driver/controller needs the analog voltage? The VFD is used primarily for an inverter system where you are driving a three phase motor with a phase inverter/variable frequency drive - driving an AC motor. Looks like a DC motor would need either the Pulse Width Modulator output from Mach3 or a Step and Direction output to a DC drive system for that motor....?

Just wondering out loud...

Hood, don't look right now for troubles. I'm making great slashes of progress but the stumbling blocks are coming up where I will wish to beg for your assistance.

Thanks,
Bill Clemens
Title: Re: No VFD voltage...
Post by: H2 on February 12, 2009, 11:21:27 AM
Bill

Thanks, you may be right I am pouring over the Minarik manual now... I know it works from a 10Vdc signal.

Test pin 2&3 will get you the voltage measurement - must have been a typo in the manual.

All the best, Henry
Title: Re: No VFD voltage...
Post by: HimyKabibble on February 12, 2009, 11:37:06 AM
Bill

Thanks, you may be right I am pouring over the Minarik manual now... I know it works from a 10Vdc signal.

Test pin 2&3 will get you the voltage measurement - must have been a typo in the manual.

All the best, Henry

If that's a Minarik DC motor controller, it requires a 0-10V analog voltage, exactly as would be provided to a VFD.  Whether you need a STEP/DIR or PWM output from Mach is determined by the Digital-to-Analog interface you're using between your PC and the Minarik.  In either case, you need to provide the 10V from the Minarik (the two end connections of the speed control potentiometer) back to the output side of the D-to-A interface board, and it will provide the variable DC voltage that connects to the wiper on the manual potentiiometer speed control.  The potentiometer, of course, must be removed.

Regards,
Ray L.

Title: Re: No VFD voltage...
Post by: BClemens on February 12, 2009, 11:45:52 AM
So it must be a voltage controlled PWM....interesting. You may also need to go to the "Motor Tuning and Set-up" dialog page and set the spindle to something like 10000 steps per with a velocity of 60 and acceleration to something like 220 with 1 uS pulses - save settings then 'enter'. If the spindle box is not available to click on then you haven't set-up the spindle correctly for 'motor control' in 'ports and pins'.

Still shooting....
 
And - yes, what Ray said...


Bill Clemens
Title: Re: No VFD voltage...
Post by: HimyKabibble on February 12, 2009, 11:54:57 AM
So it must be a voltage controlled PWM....interesting. You may also need to go to the "Motor Tuning and Set-up" dialog page and set the spindle to something like 10000 steps per with a velocity of 60 and acceleration to something like 220 with 1 uS pulses - save settings then 'enter'. If the spindle box is not available to click on then you haven't set-up the spindle correctly for 'motor control' in 'ports and pins'.

Still shooting....
 
And - yes, what Ray said...


Bill Clemens

"So it must be a voltage controlled PWM....interesting." - Yup.  Typical circuit is a voltage ramp generator (sawtooth waveform), going into one side of a comparator, and the control voltage (from the speed control pot, or external voltage) going into the other side of the comparator.  When the ramp voltage is higher than the control voltage, the motor output is switched on.  When the control voltage is higher than the ramp voltage, the motor output is switched off.

Regards,
Ray L.
Title: Re: No VFD voltage...
Post by: BClemens on February 12, 2009, 12:04:29 PM
Yes, I understand. Just thinking how far around the elbow this is to come up with the variable pulse width. First you must change an varying analog voltage to a varying frequency - A to D converter - and then a circuit similar to what you describe except that this is a fixed frequency PWM. That's doesn't seem very efficient and the DC motor would squeal at low speeds like a little piggy.

Bill Clemens
Title: Re: No VFD voltage...
Post by: H2 on February 12, 2009, 12:06:31 PM
Ray, I believe your first hunch is correct on the DC controller.

I have 2 pictures below from the manual.  I hooked the 10Vdc signal from the board to the minarik but ... no spindle yet.

I appreciate your help -
All the best, Henry

(http://www.hjhorology.com/plm/min1.jpg)
(http://www.hjhorology.com/plm/min2.jpg)
Title: Re: No VFD voltage...
Post by: BClemens on February 12, 2009, 12:16:02 PM
So you were able to read and adjust a 10 volt signal from the combo-board?

Bill Clemens

(don't mind me, I'm stuck in the E B welding shop while a 27000 lb magnet is hoisted to be turned over...)
Title: Re: No VFD voltage...
Post by: H2 on February 12, 2009, 12:34:26 PM
Bill, Yes -  I read the 10Vdc at the screws and using TP 1&2 - misprint in the manual...

If I adjust the spindle speed in Mach3 I get
1800 rpm - around 9Vdc
1000 rpm - 5Vdc

Still getting nothing out of the minarik board....

All the best, Henry
Title: Re: No VFD voltage...
Post by: HimyKabibble on February 12, 2009, 12:46:46 PM
Bill, Yes -  I read the 10Vdc at the screws and using TP 1&2 - misprint in the manual...

If I adjust the spindle speed in Mach3 I get
1800 rpm - around 9Vdc
1000 rpm - 5Vdc

Still getting nothing out of the minarik board....

All the best, Henry


Henry,

Sounds like your interface board is working as it should.  Does the Minarik work when you hook up a potentiometer?

Regards,
Ray L.
Title: Re: No VFD voltage...
Post by: H2 on February 12, 2009, 01:01:34 PM
Ray - no it does not run with a potentiometer.

I found another relay buried in the box.  It has main power and hooks to the minarik board.  I "think" it needs to be energized and not sure from where or how... even if it needs to be there?  could the relay off the BOB do the job? 

It is a Dayton 2A545E, and the info on the relay
 20amp 28Vdc
 1 1/2 hp, 20 amp, 240VAC
 3/4 hp, 20 FLA, 240 VAC
 83LRA, 20FLA, 240VAC

Any thoughts?  I think I just stepped into the deep end ;-)

All the best, Henry
Title: Re: No VFD voltage...
Post by: BClemens on February 12, 2009, 01:54:38 PM
You could put 28 volts through the motor start relay on the BOB to energize the main motor relay...izat (some new English) what you mean?

Bill Clemens
Title: Re: No VFD voltage...
Post by: H2 on February 12, 2009, 02:00:01 PM
Bill /Ray

I have a pic of the current way the relay is wired if it helps...

I "assume" the old power board is my trouble nothing now to tell the relay to trip...  I "assume" I need to get the BOB to tell the relay to trip?

Not sure I understand how to get the BOB to put out 28Vdc?... neophyte here...

Ideas?  All the best, Henry

(http://www.hjhorology.com/plm/min3.jpg)
Title: Re: No VFD voltage...
Post by: BClemens on February 12, 2009, 02:29:44 PM
See if Ray agrees, but looks like you would need a double pole motor start relay on the AC lines in to the PWM board. I'm not following the relay hook-ups to the output DC motor terminals... That would appear to be a disconnect from the board to the motor but the motor is still hooked up to the same terminals?? Not sure what they were doing there.

You would need to match a relay to a DC voltage on the BOB such as the 12V supply on the Combo-Board. Use that to power a 12V motor start relay with contacts heavy enough to run the motor - maybe 20 Amps or so. There is documentation on that in the BOB Guide.

Bill Clemens

Checked that relay out and it is 24 volt and heavy enough to supply the motor. You would need to get a 24V wall wart to energise it through the motor start relay on the BOB.
Title: Re: No VFD voltage...
Post by: HimyKabibble on February 12, 2009, 05:18:57 PM
Bill,

I'm afraid I completely don't understand what you're trying to do with the relay.  If the relay is supposed to energize the Minarik board, then it needs to be switching the "Hot" leg (black wire) of the AC input to the Minarik board.  You appear to have it connected to both the motor terminals and one AC terminal, which is wrong.  If you connect the motor to the Minarik, and connect the AC line directly to the Minarik, put the jumper in the "manual" position, with the potentiometer installed, the motor should spin.  If it doesn't, then I'm afriad your Minarik is toast.

Regards,
Ray L.
Title: Re: No VFD voltage...
Post by: H2 on February 12, 2009, 05:26:42 PM
Ray - Understood.  The diagram is how it is wired now - as odd as it seems the diagram is how the spindle was wired prior to the retrofit and was working well.

I am doing some thinking and will post back with findings.  My head hurts ;-)

Appreciate all the help, All the best, Henry
Title: Re: No VFD voltage...
Post by: BClemens on February 12, 2009, 08:20:52 PM
Bill,

I'm afraid I completely don't understand what you're trying to do with the relay.  If the relay is supposed to energize the Minarik board, then it needs to be switching the "Hot" leg (black wire) of the AC input to the Minarik board.  You appear to have it connected to both the motor terminals and one AC terminal, which is wrong.  If you connect the motor to the Minarik, and connect the AC line directly to the Minarik, put the jumper in the "manual" position, with the potentiometer installed, the motor should spin.  If it doesn't, then I'm afriad your Minarik is toast.

Regards,
Ray L.

I'll be out of this circus. Ray seems to blindly go....

 Henry, your drawing of the relay circuit is not a portion of the drive, but apparently a portion of a sensing circuit of motor function, but then ..

Ray L. has all your answers.

Bill C.
Title: Re: No VFD voltage...
Post by: H2 on February 12, 2009, 11:08:18 PM
Ray / Bill -

Your observations of a sensing circuit makes sense.  I never looked at it back wards;-) 

I appreciate your inputs - and still trying to figure out how to energize the new board.  I will post when I get my head around it.

An electrical neophyte,  all the best, henry
Title: Re: No VFD voltage...
Post by: H2 on February 16, 2009, 04:13:52 PM
OK - spindle works !

I was able to trip the Dayton relay with another relay (I am electronically challenged so left the original set up alone knowing it worked.) And I have control of the spindle through Mach3 on "M" codes and screen buttons.  What I do not have is control of the speed.  I am using a Campbell combo BOB and have a 0-10Vdc signal coming out but now need to adjust the signal to provide a linear signal that coincides with Mach3.  If anyone knows how to accomplish this I am all ears. 

Also when I use an "E stop" button everything stops as it should but when I reset the Estop.... the spindle comes back on, which seems incorrect.  I would assume this is a setting in Mach3  Any ideas on this one too?

Thanks - Henry
Title: Re: No VFD voltage...
Post by: HimyKabibble on February 16, 2009, 04:19:02 PM
OK - spindle works !

I was able to trip the Dayton relay with another relay (I am electronically challenged so left the original set up alone knowing it worked.) And I have control of the spindle through Mach3 on "M" codes and screen buttons.  What I do not have is control of the speed.  I am using a Campbell combo BOB and have a 0-10Vdc signal coming out but now need to adjust the signal to provide a linear signal that coincides with Mach3.  If anyone knows how to accomplish this I am all ears. 

Also when I use an "E stop" button everything stops as it should but when I reset the Estop.... the spindle comes back on, which seems incorrect.  I would assume this is a setting in Mach3  Any ideas on this one too?

Thanks - Henry

Sounds like your E-Stop is not feeding back to Mach, so it doesn't know you've E-stopped.  You need to feed an E-stop signal back into Mach.

Regards,
Ray L.
Title: Re: No VFD voltage...
Post by: BClemens on February 16, 2009, 04:35:07 PM
Pin 10 from the (Break Out Board) is E-Stop. Look at 'ports and pins' and the convention (^ or v) . The BOB has a Normally Closed e-stop signal meaning a jumper on J11 at the center of the IO terminals on the BOB is normal to run - open to e-stop. Ports and pins is your answer and you must play the game of logic.... is there a relay???? Everything must focus on e-stop and its logic and once it's done - it's done.

Bill C.
Title: Re: No VFD voltage...
Post by: BClemens on February 16, 2009, 04:53:50 PM
The 0-10V is in relation to what information you have given Mach3 to feed in frequency back to the BOB to convert to the 0-10V. If you see 0-10V by the methods for test and adjustment of the Rev. 5 Board then you are not feeding that info voltage to the motor driver circuit. Are the jumpers on that board set for external input? When the spindle is running, do you have control of the motor speed via the driver ckt potentiometer?

BC
Title: Re: No VFD voltage...
Post by: H2 on February 16, 2009, 06:01:32 PM
I have control of the spindle via Mach3.  It is just not linear.  I adjusted the motor tuning parameters for the spindle and got a better linear match of programed to actual spindle speed.

The set up is step and direction not PMW as I have no encoder or feedback on the spindle.

Thanks for the info - it helped.

Henry