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Author Topic: Mach 4 + ESS Smoothstepper + THC3T-02 + KL-1313 CNC  (Read 1175 times)

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Mach 4 + ESS Smoothstepper + THC3T-02 + KL-1313 CNC
« on: May 19, 2019, 03:13:07 PM »
Hello All,

I have spent a few weeks trying to 'convert' a working CNC spindle router into a plasma CNC table.
Equipment:
KL-1313 CNC Chinese router w/ ESS

THC3T-02 THC Controller
(https://drive.google.com/file/d/1I95619O-7Mhk3wCAXPJCjCMFu-Y32xKL/view)

Hypertherm powermax 45xp w/ machine torch and CPC interface cable.


Below is the breakout board my CNC has:
(https://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/motion-controllers/cnc-6-axis-interface-breakout/)
 
Currently I cannot even jog my machine correctly (after upgrading smoothstepper) and i forgot to back up my old settings smh.

Any help would be greatly appreciated, If anyone is willing enough to get on screen share (or local to chicago area) i do have the means to make that possible.

im attaching screenshots of my wiring and configurations in Mach/ESS.

Please advise this blind man

-Regards P629
Re: Mach 4 + ESS Smoothstepper + THC3T-02 + KL-1313 CNC
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2019, 03:14:10 PM »
+Adding ESS Config Screenshots
Re: Mach 4 + ESS Smoothstepper + THC3T-02 + KL-1313 CNC
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2019, 03:28:59 AM »
Hi,
you have impossibly TOO much going on to diagnose and fix.

You've got home switches, limit switches a probe and other rubbish when you cant even jog one motor let alone three.
Do yourself a favor and disable EVERTHING and start again. Start with an Estop input....and no more. WHEN you get
that working add ONE axis. Once you get that working then add another axis...and so on.

What you have done is try to get everything going at once and now you are hopelessly confused. Why have limit and home
switches if you cant get any motor to move? Its not like it can do any harm UNTIL you can get an axis to move. Why have a probe
input when you can't get your machine to move?

I notice that you don't have an Estop enabled....that is a mistake. That is the first......and as a first...the only input I would be
concerned with. If you configure a pin, enable that pin as an Estop and you can use that Estop button to disable Mach
you have proved that the BoB is successfully communicating with the ESS and the ESS is communicating with Mach4. So in
the simple task of setting up an Estop button you are starting to prove and test some of the major components of
your system.

If I were you I would not have a charge pump running. I never had one when running Mach3 and don't have one in Mach4 either,
all without problems for several years. Once you get some other things...like axes running, then you might come back and decide
whether the complication of a charge pump is justified.

Once you have an Estop working assign the direction pin of one axis only. Don't hook up the driver to the BoB. Just measure
the output with a multimeter. Using MDI (munch more reliable than jogging) can you make the X direction pin set and un-set?
Once you can, THEN try assigning the Step pin and hook up the driver. Can you get that one axis to move back and forth,
again using MDI......don't rely on jogging. You may for instance have to assign an enable pin to enable the driver.

You get the idea, start making very small steps, proving and testing and learning as you go.

Craig
My wife left with my best friend...
     and I miss him!
Re: Mach 4 + ESS Smoothstepper + THC3T-02 + KL-1313 CNC
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2019, 07:33:46 PM »
Thanks for your inputs Joeaverage. I stopped playing shortcut and started Mach 4 and ESS profile from scratch.

I am happy to say I got E-Stop working, the machine jogging & referencing home (home switches FTW) along the X,Y,Z axis.

I left out the Spindle pins since we will be using Plasma.

Now here is where I am a little stuck/confused:

Hypertherm 45 XP connection- There are 7 wires coming out the CPC port of the hypertherm...(Attached a picture of the wire connection diagram)

2 wires (+-) voltage divider -> I have these wired to my THC3T-02 (see manual in first post)
2 start plasma (type:input) -> I have these 2 wired to input pins # 11 & 15 of BoB
2 start machine motion (Type:output)-> I have these 2 wired to output pins # 16 & 17 of BoB
1 ground -> wired to ground pin in BoB

THC3T-02-> This according to the manual (screenshot attached) has the following wires (->& where I connected them):

DIR_IN -> Wired to BoB same pin which is connected to Z axis servo motor DIR-
STEP_IN -> Wired to BoB same pin which is connected to Z axis servo motor STEP-
+5V_IN -> BoB pin 5V OUT
DIR_OUT -> Wired to the Z axis servo motor DIR- 
STEP_OUT -> Wired to the Z axis servo motor STEP-
+5V_OUT -> Wired to Z axis servo motor DIR+ & STEP+ (2 wires)
ARC_OK -> Wired to BoB input pin # 12
EXT_COM -> BoB ground pin

Basically can anyone tell me if the above wiring is done correctly before I go into Mach/ESS settings and mess things up?

I have a small feeling the hypertherm CPC wires, specifically the start plasma (15VDC) and start machine motion (120VAC/1A) might need to be connected differently (see the machine interface cable signals picture)

Also attaching my ESS pins config & ESS H.C. tab settings, do I need to make changes in this tab?
Again any and all help will be appreciated..

-Regards P629
Re: Mach 4 + ESS Smoothstepper + THC3T-02 + KL-1313 CNC
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2019, 03:32:36 AM »
Hi,

Quote
2 start plasma (type:input) -> I have these 2 wired to input pins # 11 & 15 of BoB

No, that is not correct. The manual tells you that you need  a dry contact between the two wires. That does not
mean two pins on your BoB. You need one pin on your BoB to turn on a relay and a normally open contact pair
of the relay are hooked to the two start wires of the plasma.

Quote
2 start machine motion (Type:output)-> I have these 2 wired to output pins # 16 & 17 of BoB

No, that is not correct. The manual tells you that this signal is the same as 'Arc OK' and it is signaled by a dry contact closure
between the two wires of the plasma. You would hook one to the 0V of your BoB and the other to one input pin of your
BoB assuming a pull up resistor at the input pin.

Quote
DIR_IN -> Wired to BoB same pin which is connected to Z axis servo motor DIR-
STEP_IN -> Wired to BoB same pin which is connected to Z axis servo motor STEP-

The THC3T is a hardware controller, it adds or subtracts pulses in addition to those coming from the Bob/ESS to the pulse stream
going to the Z axis driver. You realize that the Z axis will lose reference in Mach. Mach has no way to know how many extra
pulses have been added or subtracted and thus the Z axis will lose reference.

Quote
ARC_OK -> Wired to BoB input pin # 12
EXT_COM -> BoB ground pin

You could hoo these direct to the 'Arc OK' dry contact closure of the plasma OR have the 'Arc OK' hooked to a Mach input
and have that input reflected to a Mach output which in turn signals the THC3T.

Craig
My wife left with my best friend...
     and I miss him!
Re: Mach 4 + ESS Smoothstepper + THC3T-02 + KL-1313 CNC
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2019, 04:51:14 PM »

Thanks for your reply Craig! I have a couple clarifications below:

Hi,

Quote
2 start plasma (type:input) -> I have these 2 wired to input pins # 11 & 15 of BoB

No, that is not correct. The manual tells you that you need  a dry contact between the two wires. That does not
mean two pins on your BoB. You need one pin on your BoB to turn on a relay and a normally open contact pair
of the relay are hooked to the two start wires of the plasma.
Are you able to guide me as to which pins/relay i should use on my BoB? I have the attachment with all the pins identified
Quote
2 start machine motion (Type:output)-> I have these 2 wired to output pins # 16 & 17 of BoB

No, that is not correct. The manual tells you that this signal is the same as 'Arc OK' and it is signaled by a dry contact closure
between the two wires of the plasma. You would hook one to the 0V of your BoB and the other to one input pin of your
BoB assuming a pull up resistor at the input pin.
Can you guide me as to which pin is 0V? im assuming the 0-10V pin on my BoB?
Quote
DIR_IN -> Wired to BoB same pin which is connected to Z axis servo motor DIR-
STEP_IN -> Wired to BoB same pin which is connected to Z axis servo motor STEP-

The THC3T is a hardware controller, it adds or subtracts pulses in addition to those coming from the Bob/ESS to the pulse stream
going to the Z axis driver. You realize that the Z axis will lose reference in Mach. Mach has no way to know how many extra
pulses have been added or subtracted and thus the Z axis will lose reference.

Quote
ARC_OK -> Wired to BoB input pin # 12
EXT_COM -> BoB ground pin

You could hoo these direct to the 'Arc OK' dry contact closure of the plasma OR have the 'Arc OK' hooked to a Mach input
and have that input reflected to a Mach output which in turn signals the THC3T.
So hook the "Arc OK" from THC to on of the wires from"start plasma input"?
Craig

looking forward to your reply
Re: Mach 4 + ESS Smoothstepper + THC3T-02 + KL-1313 CNC
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2019, 06:37:31 PM »

The THC3T is a hardware controller, it adds or subtracts pulses in addition to those coming from the Bob/ESS to the pulse stream
going to the Z axis driver. You realize that the Z axis will lose reference in Mach. Mach has no way to know how many extra
pulses have been added or subtracted and thus the Z axis will lose reference.


How would you suggest I connect this?
I have see youtube videos and read people using this THC but no one sharing how they got it to work with Mach 4...

Another issue I noticed is without the THC connected I can jog the Z up and down BUT with the THC connected (wired) Mach will only let me Jog the Z axis up, not down...if i press up it goes up, if i press down it still goes up...any clue as to why?
Re: Mach 4 + ESS Smoothstepper + THC3T-02 + KL-1313 CNC
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2019, 03:41:32 AM »
Hi,

Quote
How would you suggest I connect this?
I have see youtube videos and read people using this THC but no one sharing how they got it to work with Mach 4...

The THC3T-02 unit you have bought is a HARDWARE torch height control unit, it does not 'work with Mach4' at all,
it works totally independently.

Basically you insert the unit between the step and direction outputs of the BoB and the unit adds pulses to those
coming from the BoB (normally) to make the torch go up or down as necessary to maintain a constant arc voltage.

The Hypertherm has two outputs and one input.

One output is a voltage sample of the arc voltage, ie an analogue varying voltage. The THC unit uses this voltage to
decide whether the torch needs to go up or down, so this output would be hooked to the  THC3T unit.
The second output is a set of normally open relay contacts inside the Hypertherm. The contacts close when the plasma arc
is established, and is called the ARC OK signal. It really needs to be hooked to both the BoB AND the THC unit.

The BoB/ESS/Mach need the ARC OK signal to know when to start executing X and Y moves, and alternately if the ARC OK signal
goes low, ie the arc has stopped for some reason then Mach knows to stop executing X and Y moves.

The THC unit also needs to know if the ARC OK signal is high, it uses this as a signal to start controlling the Z axis (up or down)
to maintain the arc voltage. In absence of the ARC OK signal the THC unit does not try to drive the torch up or down......why
would you if there is no arc?

The one input into the  Hypertherm is to tell the plasma to start an arc. It requires a closure of a set of relay contacts, the
relay will be controlled by Mach/ESS/BoB. Thus when you want to start cutting something Mach signals the ESS which
signals the BoB which energizes the relay which closes it output contacts and starts the plasma.

When the plasma arc has started the Hyperthern signals ARC OK (closes a set of contacts), which signals the BOB/ESS
which in turn signal Mach to start moving X and Y axes. The same ARC OK signal could also be hooked to the THC unit
OR Mach could copy the ARC OK signal from the Hypertherm TO the THC unit. I think the later approach is best but
either would work.

Quote
Another issue I noticed is without the THC connected I can jog the Z up and down BUT with the THC connected (wired) Mach will only let me Jog the Z axis up, not down...if i press up it goes up, if i press down it still goes up...any clue as to why?

As I said before the THC3T-02 is a hardware THC controller, it becomes the master of the Z axis. I'm surprised that you can jog the
Z axis at all with Mach, remember the THC3T unit is between the BoB (the bits that Mach can control) and the Z axis driver.
If the THC3T unit decides the Z axis is not to go down then don't blame Mach/ESS/BoB, that's the THC3T making that decision.

I think you are confusing a hardware controller like the one you have and the TMC3 that the ESS is optimized for.
The TMC3 signals the ESS to make the torch go up or down but that information is relayed back to Mach so it knows
that its a little higher (or lower) and has the DRO reflect that. Note that the TMC3 signals the ESS direct so that the up/down
change can happen immediately. You could have the unit signal Mach to go up a bit or down a bit but the communication
delays from Mach through the ESS make the control sluggish. That is the difference between realtime control, ie immediate,
or near immediate control and script (also called software) control which is slower.

Craig
My wife left with my best friend...
     and I miss him!