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Author Topic: Tool Offset Macro...  (Read 24854 times)

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Offline Davek0974

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Re: Tool Offset Macro...
« Reply #80 on: August 18, 2016, 01:45:42 PM »
Well, I have no idea of what I am doing wrong or what is going on here but i have bugger all trust in the tool-table at the moment :(

I wanted to modify a vise jaw tonight, just a simple half-round groove and the first job on the mill. Thinking I might do it properly from the start, i set my z zero with the Haimer, run the tool setting macro as before, inserted the ball-nosed tool and its holder, finished the setting routine, gave it a name etc.

Then I thought it best to double-check so i set the Z zero on the workpiece using the Haimer, inserted the tool, entered tool 1 in the current tool box on screen, inched it down to Z zero and f*&k me if it wasn't a good 25-30mm high :(

Tool table showed something like -16mm for that tool.

I run the job using manual Z setting with a slip of paper under the tool.

Then i re-run the set routine on another tool number(same tool) and the tool table showed something like +36mm and the tool ended up even further above the work.

SO, either I am being a twat, or something is wrong in the world here?????

The code i am running is the same as CS-LABS code and the same as many other G31 probing routines.

Any ideas at all, i really want the tool table as I have splashed a lot of cash on tool-holders specifically so i can set the Z once per job and then switch tools easily.
Bridgeport Mill, Mach3 V062, CSMIO-IP/A controller, AC Servo Drives

Offline Hood

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Re: Tool Offset Macro...
« Reply #81 on: August 18, 2016, 06:05:23 PM »
I presume you are calling the height offset? G43H***

Hood

Offline rcaffin

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Re: Tool Offset Macro...
« Reply #82 on: August 18, 2016, 06:12:28 PM »
I don't think it is the tool table itself which is the problem. I use gang tooling on the lathe: it is a bit of a pain to set it up but then it works very reliably. One outside tool, one boring bar, one drill bit and one parting-off tool. Swap between them with T0n0n all the time. That manages to hold a few microns in production runs.

However, that is on the lathe. I have not used the tool table (yet) on the mill. As I use an ER25 collet and the tools don't have stops on them, I probably can't either. I will have to to use a ZTO instead, so I hope it works! Just use tool 0 and tweak the zero.

About all I can suggest is some mindlessly simple testing. Clear the whole tool table to zero, then cycle through 5 tool numbers and see what happens as you probe with each tool number. I find trying to take big steps usually results in them being into an abyss.

Cheers
Roger
PS: I think it will all work in the end - once all the unknown, unstated, and unsuspected assumptions/errors have all been sorted out.

Offline Hood

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Re: Tool Offset Macro...
« Reply #83 on: August 18, 2016, 07:02:47 PM »
I use the tool table every single time I use the Chiron, have at least 40 tools set up in it, adding and overwriting as I replace broken or worn tools and never an issue so it must be the way the auto routine is doing things rather than the table itself.

Hood

Offline rcaffin

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Re: Tool Offset Macro...
« Reply #84 on: August 18, 2016, 07:11:48 PM »
so it must be the way the auto routine is doing things rather than the table itself.
Reckon.  I rarely trust someone else's code. (Voice of 50+ years of programming experience there.)
Cheers
Roger

Offline Davek0974

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Re: Tool Offset Macro...
« Reply #85 on: August 19, 2016, 02:32:28 AM »
Hmmm, i don't doubt the table really, its just a table after all, more a case of garbage in, garbage out.

When i change tools, i am doing it manually - i just enter the tool number in the "Current tool" DRO and hit enter - the Z DRO changes so i presume it is calling the G43H** itself. I have not tried it from code yet as i have only run one little tiny job so far - I need to understand and trust the system before i start throwing jobs at it.

The task seems simple to me - cut away all the crap and the code is just a couple of lines - set a reference Z (in machine coords, lets call it Zm) using my Haimer against the the touch plate. Then store the Zm value in a variable. Next you replace the Haimer with a tool and do a G31 probe fast, followed by a 1mm lift followed by a G31 slow, at that point you read Var 2002 which is the Zm at the point the probe hit the plate, do a simple sum and bobs your uncle - you now have the tool offset. Bung it in the tool table and off you go.

Now, is the Var2002 taken from MachineZ or WorkZ ?? This is vital so does anyone know?? If it is WorkZ then thats the answer as there is no point comparing Zm with Zw - it all must be Zm.

Anyone know for sure?
Bridgeport Mill, Mach3 V062, CSMIO-IP/A controller, AC Servo Drives

Offline rcaffin

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Re: Tool Offset Macro...
« Reply #86 on: August 19, 2016, 03:22:26 AM »
Aaahhh - I may well be misunderstanding you here, but ...

set a reference Z (in machine coords, lets call it Zm) using my Haimer against the the touch plate.
But this Zm is meaningless once you replace the Haimer with a tool bit! You have not allowed for the length of the Haimer have you?
Of course, I may have completely misunderstood what you wrote, which is easily possible.

IF I am right (IF), what you need is a ZTO: a Haimer or some such set up on the mill table, to register the tip of each tool. But in addition, you need to know where the ZRO is wrt the surface you are about to machine. In fact,you often need TWO touch probes for this work. First, a ZTO on the mill table to calibrate each tool, and second one in the spindle to measure the ht difference between the work surface and the ZTO on the mill table.

On the other hand, I may have misunderstood everything, as (MYOG) touch probes and ZTOs are what I am working on myself right now. Biased perspective.

Cheers
Roger

Offline Hood

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Re: Tool Offset Macro...
« Reply #87 on: August 19, 2016, 03:32:28 AM »
A manual tool setter like I made would, I think, have been much better for what you want to do. You could set up 10 tools in the time it is taking you to change 1 tool ;)
Place tool in holder on setter, lower setter to tool, press button, enter offset number press apply/ok on tool table.
repeat for next tool etc etc.

No need to place tools in spindle which even with a power drawbar will take longer than placing a tool in the setter.

Hood

Offline Davek0974

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Re: Tool Offset Macro...
« Reply #88 on: August 19, 2016, 03:51:46 AM »
Yes I realise your version is good Hood, but i have to work with what i have - don't forget i am on R8 tooling so need to measure each tool in the spindle.

Rcaffin - what i am trying to do is get a reference point - I use the Haimer to read a point on the table - in my case the top of the touch-plate, then i note the Zm DRO - this gives me a fixed point WRT the Haimer.

Now, replace the Haimer with a tool, and do a G31 to the touch-plate, now read the Zm again - there will be a difference, an offset, that difference is what i need in the tool table so that whenever I use the Haimer to find TOM, I know that the offset will be the same and whatever tool i fit will be zero on the TOM.

Its just finding differences thats all, but to work it must use the Zm not Zw, I need to know when the G31 hits the plate and sets #2002 does it set it with ZM or Zw ??

There is a world of difference here as if it is Zw it will not work unless the Z DRO is zeroed properly - this needs testing as it would explain things a little more.
Bridgeport Mill, Mach3 V062, CSMIO-IP/A controller, AC Servo Drives

Offline Hood

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Re: Tool Offset Macro...
« Reply #89 on: August 19, 2016, 04:27:26 AM »
What I think you may need to do is bring the haimer down, set Z Dro to Zero, put tool in run routine, etc etc then haimer in again and bring it down to material and again zero. You will have to make sure the offset the haimer is on is the same on the first touch off and zero as the last one. Now whether you have the haimer set as a tool offset or  just as zero offset I don'tthink it will matter, the important thing is you zero the Z DRO.

Regarding the height setter, if you are using collet chucks or endmill holders rather than R8 collets then there would not be a problem with the height setter way I use. There is a taper holder the tools fit in so they all register at the same height as they would in the spindle.


Hood