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Author Topic: Hit hard with the turret on the spindle... Damn!  (Read 2751 times)

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Hit hard with the turret on the spindle... Damn!
« on: January 30, 2016, 02:56:50 AM »
Hey guys, here's the problem: after setting up a quite complex trail of operations (center drilling, peck drilling, boring, chamfering, internal relief, threading, turning, parting) and having perfectly set all the tools' positions in the tool table I felt like I could finally turn the piece.
I did make one part and I was very satisfied but then I hit the E-Stop (stupid move, I literally sat on the jog shuttle...).
Anyway, I simply hit the reference button and the machine went to the limit switches as usual.
Now, being the limit switches VERY precise I normally don't need to make any further check and I can continue machining. This time I decided to see if all was right and I went with my master tool (number one) to the stock to check the Z and the X.
Something very strange happened: I was off by about 30mm on the Z and 45mm on the X!
I said: "you son of a...!!! You wanted to screw me!!! Not this time, I'm smarter than you!"
So I made a new facing cut to zero the Z and a light turning on the stock to zero the X.
Feeling satisfied for having dodged death I started the next part and then disaster!
As soon as I hit the start button Mach3 changed the DRO to some strange values and run full speed into the spindle!!!!
ER40 clamping nut is now thinner, the two bolts that keep the turret have been stripped, tool holder shattered, tool wheel lost its position, gibs need to be adjusted again and a puddle of tears to be moped from the floor...

4 hours later the lathe was back in business and I decided to investigate why this happened. So I set every tools' positions again in the tool table, I machined one part and then I hit the E-Stop on purpose to recreate the previous nightmare.
I click the reference button again and the machine goes to the limit switches. And then I see the same problem again: the position of the master tool is not right!
This time I decide not to reference X and Z with a facing and turning operation but I instead make an M6T0202 tool change and then an M6T0101. (I change from tool 1 to tool 2 then back to tool 1).

After this double tool change everything is correctly positioned.

Now the question is: why??????????????


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Offline mc

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Re: Hit hard with the turret on the spindle... Damn!
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2016, 07:50:55 AM »
When you hit E-stop, for some reason the current tool offsets get removed, and if you then don't command a tool change, the tool offsets don't get re-applied. You don't normally have to even change tool, just re-issue the tool/offset change for the current tool.

It's one of several bugs, and one reason I'm currently moving towards not using Mach 3 on the lathe.
The other reason is I've had a couple random spindle stops instead of commanded speed changes, which resulted in snapped drills and everything getting knocked out of alignment. I still need to re-align my spindle after a crash last week.
The thing is, Mach 3 can run for months without any glitches, then just randomly crash.

Offline RICH

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Re: Hit hard with the turret on the spindle... Damn!
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2016, 08:03:41 AM »
Well nice to hear that you finally got the lathe back. Probably seemed like an eternity for you.
I you screw up the trumpet mouthpiece maybe you can make it into a special French Horn one, those guys are all a little weird anyway!
Couldn't resist the pun....... :D

Are you using the generic lathe screen?
What version of Mach are you running?

RICH



Offline Tweakie.CNC

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Re: Hit hard with the turret on the spindle... Damn!
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2016, 08:05:40 AM »
Rich beat me to it with the question but I would like to know which version of Mach3 you guy's are using.

Tweakie.
Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm.  Winston Churchill.

Offline RICH

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Re: Hit hard with the turret on the spindle... Damn!
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2016, 08:34:20 AM »
Tweakie,
I am using .062.
RICH
Hit hard with the turret on the spindle... Damn!
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2016, 01:16:04 PM »
mc: that explains why I had this crash. And this is VERY annoying as today I read the manual, again, and the only procedure it's required after and E-Stop is the homing (which I always perform).
I paid for the software and I expect it to be SAFE. Every issue like this MUST be either solved or clearly stated in the manual. I spent about 250 euro to repair everything. More that the software itself!!!!

Not to mention all the other times the software crashed the lathe in the past!!!

Rich: I tried to call you today but skype for some reason doesn't want to work... I'll try later today.

Lathe is back, for now, I am not satisfied yet so I booked a complete overhaul of it, it's being modified to be a slant bed with linear bearings. Once completed it will finally rock. So far it's manageable but the spindle not being perfectly concentric and the carriage still bearing a lot of mechanical backlash make it a pain to obtain what you want.

Luckily most of the previous รจ issues are now solved.

French horn players... They wouldn't understand the difference between a mouthpiece and a tea spoon. :)

I'm on the dreadful German screen the German guys included with the lathe. Awful version, very complicated, password protected... A nightmare but I can make it work.
(I know how to bypass the password of any screen, by the way, too easy to be true...)

I'm running .066, I'd like to go to the .062 but so far, at least, the lathe is working (barely). I'm trying to get the .062 on the laptop so if it doesn't work I still have the big computer working.


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Offline BR549

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Re: Hit hard with the turret on the spindle... Damn!
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2016, 01:58:02 PM »
SPort IF you after top notch turn controller software you stopped at the WRONG candy store . Mach3 is OLD and no longer supported with updates or debugging and HAS been for years now. EVEN in the days of Art fixing things turn was always the read headed step child of Mach3.

NOW it is a nice low cost HOBBY package for sure. BUT it does have problems that will NEVER be fixed.

Just a thought, (;-) TP
Hit hard with the turret on the spindle... Damn!
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2016, 02:40:32 PM »
What is a reasonable alternative that is not too hard to learn?


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Offline BR549

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Re: Hit hard with the turret on the spindle... Damn!
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2016, 04:10:14 PM »
There are several decent Turn Controllers out there . JUST MAKE SURE that it uses Encoder spindle control for threading. IF it cannot do spindle encoder then pass it on by(;-)


Lcnc    ( complicated)
FlashCut
EdingCNC
UCcnc ( limited Gcode set at this time)

Offline mc

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Re: Hit hard with the turret on the spindle... Damn!
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2016, 07:16:17 PM »
I'll be going the KMotionCNC route, as I'm using a Dynomotion KFlop anyway, so it's just a software change needed.

I just need to find time to sit down and convert all the Mach macros to suitable C programs, and I should be good to get running, but then all my G-code will need altered as there's a few subtle differences.