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Author Topic: CSMIO/IP wiring outputs and MPG module config  (Read 14375 times)

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Offline Dan13

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CSMIO/IP wiring outputs and MPG module config
« on: December 27, 2013, 01:29:18 AM »
Hi,

Had a CSMIO/IP-A module lying around for quite some time, waiting for a retrofit of my mill. Eventually got to retrofit a router for a client and decided to use the module. However, had to purchase a CSMIO/IP-S module as the Panasonic drives on the machine only could take Step/Dir. Anyway, found myself facing some issues which aren't covered in the manuals and the CS-Labs staff seems to be very busy and haven't got a reponse from them since two weeks ago.

First, regarding the MPG module:

1. How do I access inputs of MPG module from Mach3? Which port and which pins? I am using two digital inputs from the MPG module for Start and FeedHold buttons. How do I define it in Maach3? Also my Estop button on the MPG module cuts 24VDC to one of the inputs (not Estop1 Estop2 inputs as I don’t understand them) – how do I configure it in Mach3?

2. I have 3 potentiometers on the Pendant (FRO, SRO and Rapid override). Two of them go through the MPG module and configured in CSMIO software. One of them goes to the CSMIO/IP-S directly. The potentiomters that connect to the MPG mdule have very slow and poor response in Mach3. I have to rotate them very slowly in order for the MAch3 DRO to update correctly. If I rotate a little bit faster then Mach3 DRO doesn’t update well – for instance winding it rapidly from zero to the opposite extreme, it would end up at 260% or so and not 300% . Also it seems that only half of the potentiometer’s travel is utilized – it is only half way to the max and the DRO already shows 300%. When I set the FRO in the CSMIO software to the 3rd potentiometer which is connected directly to the CSMIO/IP-S then it is more responsive and works better. However, still would stop at 290% if winding the pot quickly.

And regarding wiring the CSMIO/IP outputs (got my head around wiring the inputs). Their terminology of the pins is doesn't much the industrial for PLCs and such so a bit confusing! Also documentation lacks fundamental drawings of the internal electronics of the inputs and outputs (optos or transistors or open collector, etc.) like most manufacturers do and which helps understanding the I/O and wire them correctly. There is 24V and 0V on the digital outputs connector for every few outputs - how do you wire them?

Thanks,
Dan

Offline Hood

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Re: CSMIO/IP wiring outputs and MPG module config
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2013, 04:27:39 AM »
Dan,
 bit rushed at the moment so will answer a few of your questions and if I make it to the workshop today I will have a look regarding the FRO to see if I get the same issue regarding the fast wind.

I found that the MPG module was slightly less responsive than direct connection to the main module for FRO etc however I also found that a log pot gave much better response. BTW what resistance pot are you using? Also if I recall the Analogue on the MPG module is 5v rather than the 10v of the main unit, just in case you are using 10v. I think the manual says analogue 0-10v but unless its been changed that is wrong. You take the feed for your pot from the 5v output.

Regarding the outputs, if I recall they are sourcing only, so you have your power and 0v to provide power for it and the actual output will output the voltage. I dont think you can use them as sinking outputs, I am sure I had to make up wee relays for the Fara drive I have on the wee lathe as its inputs were sourcing.

E-stop, the connections on the main power plug (E-Stop1 &2) I think are meant for connecting an  E-Stop string into the MPG module, for example you may have an E-Stop fitted to your panel, if you wished you could connect that into the string to halt the Mach if the E-Stop on the MPG is pushed.To do that the 24v is already going into your E-Stop switch and you then feed the other side of your NC into EStop 1, you then take a wire from EStop2 and put that to 0V (or feed it back in to   the external E-stop string to continue it.
So what EStop 1 and 2 are for is to halt the rest of the E-Stop string, I think basically they are acting like a relay, if you halt the MPG modules E-Stop then these contacts will open and thus your main E-Stop string will be open., hope I have  not confused the situation as I know what I mean but may not be putting it down in words very well

Regarding the actual E-Stop on your hand held pendant, I think you would use pins 13 and 25 and have a NC contact on the E-Stop button.

Hood

Offline Hood

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Re: CSMIO/IP wiring outputs and MPG module config
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2013, 09:49:08 AM »
Dan,
 Just tried my FRO and SRO that are connected via the MPG module and they work fine, doesnt matter if I wind fast or slow they respond fast in Machs DROs and they get up to 299 and 248 respectively, no matter if fast or slow.

Also watching the analogue bar in the plugin, it is not until they get to then end that the bar shows full scale. I suspect you are feeding the pots 10v and that is why you get the full bar at mid position, may also account for the unusual response you are getting.

Regarding the I/O and the address, if wanting to use Ports and Pins then it would be the address of the module you would use, you will see that if you look in the plugin (from Plugin Control menu) and then look at the expansion modules page.

If using Brains or Macropump then it would be the ModBus address you would use.

Hood

Offline Dan13

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Re: CSMIO/IP wiring outputs and MPG module config
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2013, 10:54:39 AM »
Hi Hood,

Thanks for the reply. I AM using 10v for the analogue indeed. The manual clearly says that they are 10V. I'll try to use the 5V and see if it helps. The resistors I am using are 1k, but also tried 5k and 10k.

Do you think there is a reason why they did the outputs so stupidly? If they are only sourcing then why do you have to supply both 24V and 0V...?

You got me a bit confused with the Estop - do you mean that pins 13 and 25 on the DB25 connector are on the control side of a relay which switches Estop1 and Estop2 on the power jack.? So providing continuity between pins 13 and 25 closes the relay and connects Estop1 to Estop2.

Dan

Offline Hood

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Re: CSMIO/IP wiring outputs and MPG module config
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2013, 11:34:40 AM »
Dan, yes the manual does mention 0-10v analogue but if you look at the bar in the expansion module diagnostics it says 0-5v, that is how I discovered it as I was previously using a 24v supply and putting a resistor in series to limit to 10v. Now I have it connected to the 5v out.
The main modules however use 0-10v, its just the MPG that is 0-5v

Regarding the way they connect the  outputs, I have no idea, you would have to look up the datasheet for the chip they are using. I suspect it may be so you can supply voltages other than 24v for each bank of 4 outs but thats just a guess as I have not looked up the data sheet. I did however look through my old emails and here is what they said.
"CSMIO/IP devices use integrated output chips (VNQ860) and they have sourcing outputs only, so if sinking outputs are needed you must do it on the relay."

Also in that same email I asked about the E-Stops and here is what they said.

"ESTOP on DB25 are for NC push button connection from MPG pendant. ESTOP pins near power connector are for connection with main ESTOP circuit, so ESTOP button on the pendant works independently of CAN logic. Please look on sample diagram on page 11 of MPG module user manual."

Hood

Offline Hood

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Re: CSMIO/IP wiring outputs and MPG module config
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2013, 11:43:55 AM »
Just to clarify regards the E-Stop.
What they have done is have pins 13 and 25 for connecting your hand held pendants E-Stop button to and they control the E-Stop 1 and 2 connections on the main plug. That means that as you have your machines main E-Stop string connected through these connections, when you press E-Stop on the pendant it actually just opens the contacts on the main plug and thus interupts your machines main E-Stop string.
 It may also send a signal via CANBUS, not sure as I dont actually have any of my E-Stops connected to the MPG module, all I have (if I recall correctly) is pin 25 and 13 shorted together.

Hood

Offline Dan13

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Re: CSMIO/IP wiring outputs and MPG module config
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2013, 01:56:57 PM »
Thanks, Hood! Will redo the analogue on Sunday when I get to the workshop.

Checked the datasheet for the above chip and it seems to be sourcing only, indeed. And as you guessed, it can take anything from 5.5V to 36V and have it on the outputs. Not the best solution for an industrial controller, though I can see some advantage in being able to output different voltage levels. Also, in a standard application I think you would most likely have common GND, not needing separate GND for every bunch of 4 outputs.

Thanks again. Think I can finish the wiring now.

Dan

Offline Dan13

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Re: CSMIO/IP wiring outputs and MPG module config
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2013, 07:35:41 AM »
Hi Hood,

Supplying 5V to the pots fixed things indeed. Now facing another issue though. When opening the CSMIO plugin config window I am getting some invalid argument message, see a screenshot attached (msg1). Then if trying to save the settings I am getting an error message, see screenshot attached (msg2). Any idea what it might be? Didn't have this happen when I was playing with the CSMIO/IP-A.

Dan

Offline Hood

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Re: CSMIO/IP wiring outputs and MPG module config
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2013, 09:05:36 AM »
Have never seen that Dan, going by the message however it would seem to be related to Index Homing.
 Maybe it thinks you have enabled the index homing and is looking for the encoder PPR to be entered. Try enabling that and putting a value in then save then go back and disable and see.
May also be you have set up a spindle axis but have not entered a value for the encoder?

Hood

Offline Dan13

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Re: CSMIO/IP wiring outputs and MPG module config
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2013, 09:41:43 AM »
OK, have it partly worked out. You are right - it wants me to enter some value in the encoder index homing. After doing it, it continues to pop all sorts of other messages, like wrong slave parameters, wrong spindle parameters, and so on. Entering values for all these, it eventually allows me to do a save, but then after I exit and reload the config, all the settings are erased and back to default. Just can't wok this way. So you're saying you never had seen this... and CS Labs are not answering... Will may be try to call them tomorrow.

Dan