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Author Topic: Can't get spindle to turn on, for 2 years!  (Read 11921 times)

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Can't get spindle to turn on, for 2 years!
« on: February 16, 2013, 10:27:32 AM »
Hi,

I have a Dyna 2400 that I converted using this:

http://www.soigeneris.com/stdr_4c-details.aspx

So I have Smoothstepper and a G540.

I also used this spindle speed control:
http://www.kb-controls.com/KBWS-15-9491-DC-Drives-Chassis-KBWS-15-9491.htm

I have a switch to go from program to manual. THe motor runs fine in the manual mode but I can not get Mach to turn it on.

I hear a relay click when Mach tries to turn it on but nothing happens.

I get "PWM bumped to minimum setting" in the status line.

Jeff at Soigeneris has been helping me for literally nearly 2 years and has been very patient. I have tried multiple xml files from him but nothing works.

Can anyone tell me EXACTLY how to set up all the various config/ports/pins?

Any help would be GREATLY appreciated!

Paul
Re: Can't get spindle to turn on, for 2 years!
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2013, 12:27:14 PM »
Further info...the drive is getting power all the time regardless of calling for spindle to run in Mach.
Is that right?
Re: Can't get spindle to turn on, for 2 years!
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2013, 01:52:05 AM »
Your saying the drive gets power all the time do you mean the motor or driver board. I couldn't find any documentation on this board but it is a PWM out put.
It should have 120vac connected a 0 to 10v or 0 to 5v input from Mach which will have to be configured in Mach to the pins you have it connected to. You will have to enable spindle control in ports and pins and set it up for PWM control which ever the board requires.
I know I can tell you whats wrong but I need a bit more info.
A copy of your xml file a diagram of the connections of the drive board and what is presently connected to the board.
Be careful motors run on smoke! if you let this smoke out they won't run anymore.

Steve
I have this ultimate set of tools I can fix it.
Re: Can't get spindle to turn on, for 2 years!
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2013, 09:38:44 AM »
I'm using a KBIC-120 speed control on my lathe which receives mains power all the time when the machine is on.  The spindle "on" command from Mach opens a NC relay on my B.O.B. wired in series with the I1/I2 inhibit terminals on the KB.  Open circuit = spindle motor on, closed circuit = motor off.
Milton from Tennessee ya'll.
Re: Can't get spindle to turn on, for 2 years!
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2013, 10:19:33 AM »
OK from what I found on this board it doesn't accept the 0 10v input for speed control it has its own pot input. This means Mach won't be able to control speed but with a relay for inhibit it will turn it on and off. The spindle control will have to be set up as relay control not PWM.

Steve
I have this ultimate set of tools I can fix it.
Re: Can't get spindle to turn on, for 2 years!
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2013, 10:34:26 AM »
My current xml is attached.

Steve...that is interesting about his board. I need to look at this closer.
If it is not obvious, my "skills" at electronics are sorely lacking!

Paul
Re: Can't get spindle to turn on, for 2 years!
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2013, 12:14:01 PM »
Mach should be able to control this board with your stuff I think.  The KB manual says:

"Voltage Following Connection – A 0 - 5 Volt DC analog signal voltage can also be used to control motor speed. See Figure 6, on page 14. Connect the analog signal voltage to P2 (signal) and P1 (-) terminals.  Adjustment of the MIN trimpot may be necessary to achieve a 0 Volt DC output with a 0 Volt DC input.

Note: The input signal can be non-isolated or earth grounded since the KBWS has built-in signal isolation."

Link: http://www.kbelectronics.com/manuals/kbws_manual.pdf

Is the 540 0-10v analog out adjustable?  I'm definitely no electrical wizard but I'm thinking you can get it to work with what you have.  If it's not adjustable, surely there's a simple circuit to do the trick.  If not, the KBSI-240D Signal Isolator would allow a greater range of adjustments.  I've picked up 2 on ebay for $30.00 each plus shipping.  http://www.kbelectronics.com/manuals/kbsi_240d_manual.pdf

Maybe someone else with more knowledge can comment.  I got mine working great...some how. :o
Milton from Tennessee ya'll.
Re: Can't get spindle to turn on, for 2 years!
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2013, 01:56:28 PM »
Is there a way to test if the terminals for the VFD on the G540 are working?

If so how would I do it?

On my STDR4 (from Soigeneris) those are brought up to a 9 pin connector.

I have never seen any measurable V on these pins and am thinking that maybe the G540 VFD outputs are fried.

Thanks,

Paul
Re: Can't get spindle to turn on, for 2 years!
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2013, 06:10:53 PM »
OK the manual shows a 0 to 5v input for pwm speed control on your spindle board. The Gecko has a o to 10v output which is to high. You should be able to pull the speed control signal from your b.o.b once configured in Mach and you identify the pins to be used but maybe not. The b.o.b should be opti coupled and the speed control board is. If this is the case you will need to pull the signal from before the breakout board to the coupled input of the speed controller.
Connecting a opti coupled output to an opti coupled input won't work. The connection between the 2 won't have any power to run on.
You might be able to get it from the smooth stepper but I will have to look at it to be sure.
A 0tu 5v or 0 to 10v signal should be just that as long as its not downstream of an opti coupler.

Steve
PS now I know the parts involved I will put together a diagram and post it as soon as I can.
I have this ultimate set of tools I can fix it.

Offline Jeff_Birt

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Re: Can't get spindle to turn on, for 2 years!
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2013, 08:49:41 AM »
The G540 VFD output does not really 'output' anything on its own. It takes a voltage source you provide and gives you back a signal that is proportional to the current speed being asked for. For if you apply 10V to the VFD 'input' terminals and ask for a spindle speed that is 1/2 of the maximum range (i.e. the PWM will be at 50% duty cycle), you will get 5V out on the VFD 'output' pin (50% of the voltage you input.) If your input voltage is 5V then you will get back 50% of that.

There are two separate issues here. One is that the STDR-4C has an internal relay that controls the 'Spindle' outlet. When Mach3 says to turn the spindle on this relay is triggered and you have 120V AC on the spindle outlet. In the profile Paul posted there were a few things amiss, the spindle relay active low state was backwards and the pulley range(s) may not have been correct for his machine. I corrected this and sent him a copy.

Paul, let's divide this problem in half. First thing to check is to copy the XML I sent into your Mach3 directory and start up Mach with it. When you hit F5 (or type M3 in the MDI line) you should hear a click, that will be the spindle relay turning on. Pres F5 again and the relay will turn off. If that happens we know the spindle relay is fine. Now get a voltmeter set to measure 120VAC, press F5 to turn on the spindle relay and measure the output of the 'Spindle' connector on the back panel of the STDR-4C. Do you have 120VAC present? Press F5 to turn the relay off, did the 120VAC go away?

One we know that part of things are working we'll leave those settings alone and move on to the VFD output.
Happy machining , Jeff Birt