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Author Topic: Can't get spindle to turn on, for 2 years!  (Read 11583 times)

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Re: Can't get spindle to turn on, for 2 years!
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2013, 10:47:06 AM »
He said he heard the relay click when he switched to spindle control. The PWM speed control needs a 0 to 5v analog input to run, it should have this 5v between P1 and P2 . A jumper across these should run spindle at full speed. The manual for the G540 states its a 0 to 10v analog output so there should be an output there. At this point though check it step by step to make sure everything is working. I would try the speed control pot on it to get everything working up to that point.
You will still have to make sure Mach is configured properly to send these signals.
I have this ultimate set of tools I can fix it.

Offline Jeff_Birt

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Re: Can't get spindle to turn on, for 2 years!
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2013, 11:14:04 AM »
The G540 VFD 'output' is not a voltage source, it does not output any voltage on its own. It works just as I described.

I am the guy who builds the STDR-4C control Paul has. The profile he posted here had a few things set wrong so I fixed it and emailed it to him yesterday. I'm still waiting to hear back to see if the spindle relay is now working properly.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2013, 11:32:55 AM by Chaoticone »
Happy machining , Jeff Birt
 
Re: Can't get spindle to turn on, for 2 years!
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2013, 11:35:50 AM »
I'm working on it...I have to put all the stuff back together, I took it apart yesterday, so need to hook all the cables back up.
Thanks for your continued support Jeff.

Offline Jeff_Birt

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Re: Can't get spindle to turn on, for 2 years!
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2013, 02:13:37 PM »
Paul, I just responded here as the information about the G540 putting out 10V was in error. A lot of folks make that mistake when reading the G540 manual and I did not want it confusing the matter. Just let me know how it works out. We'll get it working for you :)
Happy machining , Jeff Birt
 
Re: Can't get spindle to turn on, for 2 years!
« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2013, 11:31:35 PM »
OK now we are getting somewhere. If the data sheets supplied with these devices are incorrect it makes it hard to put one together.
The spindle board has its own 5v source to feed through the G540 or breakout board through an opti coupler. You won't read anything far as an output on the G540 it will adjust the 5v according to the speed setting. This varied 5v back into the spindle board will tell the board what to run the spindle at.
The maximum voltage you can regulate with the G540 at the VFD pins is 12 v according to the manual which would be about right.
As I said before try hooking everything up as described, if you get no speed control try putting the manual pot adjuster on it. If it works then everything is good except the communication between Mach and the spindle board. The problem will be in the G540 vfd control circut or the Mach configuration. The setup for PWM of spindle in Mach is a little tricky to do.

Good luck and keep us posted
Steve
I have this ultimate set of tools I can fix it.

Offline Jeff_Birt

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Re: Can't get spindle to turn on, for 2 years!
« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2013, 08:29:22 PM »
The G540 is not wrong concerning the VFD output. It is just easy to misunderstand what it means.

Quote
ANALOG OUTPUT: This is a 0V to +10V opto-isolated analog output intended for use with VFD drives. VFD OUT goes to 0VDC while the G540 is disabled. Connect VFD GND, VFD OUT and VFD +10V to the VFD drive inputs. Make sure the VFD drive positive voltage does not exceed +12VDC. Do not short VFD OUT to any other terminal. Do not reverse polarity to VFD GND and VFD +10V or the G540 may be damaged.

A VFD will generally provide a 10V supply for the purpose a 'remote' control such as the G540 provides. If your not familiar with VFDs though it can be a bit confusing as to what the G540 VFD output does.

After talking with Paul on the phone the other night we discovered a few things.

1) The Mach profile he was using was corrupt. This happens every once in a while and it is hard to diagnose. In this case Mach would not turn output 2, there may have been other issues but this one stuck out. I sent him another copy of the Dyna 2400/G540 profile and output 2 was now working.

2) Output 1 (spindle relay) was showing it was on in Mach 3 but the relay was not physically turning on. This turned out to be a loose connection to the relay coil.

3) There was no output from the VFD output of the G540. This problem is still open, it looks like it might be a wiring error between the spindle controller and the STDR-4C, a friend is going to help him double check the wiring. It could also be in the G540 or wiring between the rear panel of the controller and the G540.

Problems like this can be tough to troubleshoot as there are multiple little things adding up to make for a big confusing mess. The trick is to break the big problem into small bits. For example the first thing we checked was that the Ports&Pins and spindle setting looked right. Then we checked to see of the outputs actually triggered the relays. This is how the problem with the corrupt profile was found. With a fresh new profile the relay on Output 2 worked but Output 1, the spindle relay did not. It showed in Mach as though it was being triggered so this indicated a possible wiring issue.

As someone one told me, the best way to eat an elephant is one bite at a time. The same goes for troubleshooting a complex problem, break it down into bite sized pieces and take care of them one at a time.



Happy machining , Jeff Birt
 
Re: Can't get spindle to turn on, for 2 years!
« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2013, 09:08:28 PM »
Yeah thats true it doesn't actually output but is a control output. The opti-isolator is also polar. It won't work wired with wrong polarity.
I have built many manufacturing machine with elephant controls in them but when looked at one circut at a time you can find your way around and fix them.
The opti isolator can be checked with a diode tester I'm sure, it is actually a transistor switch that controls a source voltage back to the PWM board.

Steve
I have this ultimate set of tools I can fix it.
Re: Can't get spindle to turn on, for 2 years!
« Reply #17 on: February 22, 2013, 09:37:59 AM »
Update:

With LOTS of help from Jeff I have made some progress, but it is still not working.

I THINK all of Mach settings are correct, but I am open to ideas!

What happens now is when I call for a spindle speed in Mach the spindle will turn on for maybe 1 or 2 seconds, then turns off.
We can measure voltage on the VFD of 5V when it turns on, then it rapidly drops off to zero.
It still works fine in manual mode, but only if you call for a spindle speed in mach and turn the relay on.

Any thoughts?

Jeff:I misspoke in my private email to you, one wire to the manual/program switch was wired wrong, we fixed that.

Offline Jeff_Birt

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Re: Can't get spindle to turn on, for 2 years!
« Reply #18 on: February 22, 2013, 10:26:45 AM »
The next thing to do is check the VFD output right at the G540, pull the back panel of the control box down again, and disconnect the three wires going to the VFD terminals.

Get a hold of a 9V battery with the connector/leads. The 9V+ (red wire) goes to Pin 9 on the G540 and the 9V- (black wire) to pin 7, measure voltage output on between terminals 7 and 8. When you issue a S5000, then M3. The spindle relay should click and you should have about 2.5V measured on the meter.
Happy machining , Jeff Birt
 
Re: Can't get spindle to turn on, for 2 years!
« Reply #19 on: February 22, 2013, 02:15:06 PM »
OK, made the test. I used an old 9 pin connector and plugged it in to the VFD out with alligators to my meter rather than opening up the case again.

Spindle relay clicks but 0 volts are shown between 7 and 8.  9V is read between 8 and 9.

So is it the G540?

Paul