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Re: My Big Project am I crazy
« Reply #20 on: March 06, 2010, 10:53:12 AM »
re the spindles
1. a lot of the inverters are signaled by rs485 on italian machines. check the inverter inputs for analogue are connected. you may need to reprogram the inverter to accept analogue instead of rs 485 if thats the case. what inverter is it? is it a single inverter machine, relay switched to each router motor etc? (as biesse is)
if its rs communication you will have to find the right code to get existing controller to switch it on.
mine requires vacuum pump to be running , sufficient air pressure etc before it will do anything
can you get a start light on it? ie drives switched on from plc ready to run.

it may have a weird button combination like biesse. "start, stop, reset" to switch on vavuum pump (i had to get a biesse tech to tell me that when i first got mine as i couldnt switch it on) also all axis must be global reset ie. homed before anything else will work. on a biesse this is done on the manual screen.

do you have a user manual or wiring diagram for the machine? if not try to buy or steal one. as lots will take ages to work out without one.
mine uses rs485 for i/o communication to all the i/o boards scattered around the machine


also you need to work out its power up sequence. a lot of this sort of machine have timer relays etc. you should find these in the cab

i know its not a biesse, im trying to point out what i found with mine, as its italian too.
are you going to try to run it as is or convert straight to mach etc?
if converting to mach, what are your ideas for conversion so far?
 its definately quite a big job as i found out.


there is normally a manual plc screen where you can switch each output on. air rams, drills down etc.
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Re: My Big Project am I crazy
« Reply #21 on: March 06, 2010, 02:22:54 PM »
Battwell,

There is a single 11kw Berges acm-d2 inverter that has the output routed to the individual spindles by a group of relays. I have been able to download the inverter manual and it looks like I should be able to control it with +-10v. I can get the inverter to power up but have not had any luck past that, I think I'm just missing the control signal.

That makes sense about a sequence of things that have to be completed before it can start. I have the air pressure switch bypassed for now (need to case down some air leaks) and the safety for the head cover is bypassed as well because the cover is removed to work on things. There may be something else that needs to be bypassed.

I have the wiring diagrams and some of the other manuals but nothing for programing the controller. I have spent some time getting familiar with the wiring diagrams and trying to understand how things work and what voltages are used. All the communications are coming from the control box (there are several cards in the box) and wired to the terminal strips in the main cabinet.

I plan on using Mach to control the machine and using Galil for the controller. I'm thinking of starting out with the DCM-2153 and two ICM-20105 boards plus the DC24 dc converter. I want the 5 axis control because it has more IO and will give me the option to add a indexer later. Most of the IO is 24dc so I think the 20105 boards will make wiring things a little easier. Any commits or suggestions are welcome and appreciated.

I want to try and keep as much of the original components and wiring as possible. Trying to just get one or two spindles working and movement plus vacuum control to start and will add more things later. There is a lot of air components that I'm not concerned with right now.

There is two encoders for each axis, one on the servo (may just a tach) and a separate true encoder on the axis. Should I leave the one on the servo connected  to the servo amp and connect the other to the Galil board?   

Thanks for the help, it's good to know that some one else has done something like this.
 
Re: My Big Project am I crazy
« Reply #22 on: March 06, 2010, 07:40:54 PM »
re galil controller. are you buying new? ebay seller "athomemarket" has lots of regular galil products for peanuts. i have 5 axis controllers from them for about $150
everything i have had from them is brand new old stock.
galil rio works well for extra i/o
there are always breakout boards on ebay etc.
i just got a brand new 2280 controller for $300 instead of $3000+
i use the icm 1900 . can be any voltage i/o if configured correctly

my biesse uses a relay to "ignite" the inverter from a plc output . and then others to switch specific routers on ***spindle routing output circuit must be made before inverter is switched on or damage may be made to inverter***
also has a emergency signal, inverter inhibit "run" signal and thermal overload sence from router head input to overcome to get to run
its worth checking that the main circuit voltage circuit is permanantly live or also switched by plc output. obviously without this it wont run

if you check circuit diagram you should find a series loop of emergency/ over temp/ run signal to inverter input.

you will probably find the servo motor has a tach and encoder, or like you said encoder on axis.
the drive may require the tach i dont know but the galil will take the encoder output only. very easy to wire in. but make sure you follow instructions re first switch on exactly as motors seem to run away until set correctly.
 i can help with galil startup tuning parameters etc and what i found re tuning as i made notes.
the i/o is a bit of a pain in mach as you have to use vb.macros  i edited samples of code i found on this forum rather than learn it from scratch

how much did you pay for your antique or is that like asking how old the wife is?




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Re: My Big Project am I crazy
« Reply #23 on: March 06, 2010, 07:48:59 PM »
my machine is on you tube. see biessebod . not shown under mach control yet as its a work in progress. i need to use the machine daily until im happy to rip out the old controller. i have the new one as a plug in test bed on flying leads.
working on the tool changer macro at the moment. it looks easy if you watch the video but there is a long list of i/o and etc etc to consider.
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Re: My Big Project am I crazy
« Reply #24 on: March 07, 2010, 05:04:33 AM »
just looked at wiring and specs.
has inerter got wire going to inputs 8,10 at the moment ie 10v analogue or is it wired to inputs s0+ so- (rs485)


your inverter has a max frequency of 650 hz. (or if later software 1300 hz) thats high! 24000 rpm is normally at 400hz on router spindles
you will probably have parameters to set max frequency of output.
if you want max speed to be 24000 rpm etc this would have to be set so +10v gives 24000 etc
obviously if your powering drill spindle, saw spindle etc you will have to ensure your max analogue voltage commanded doesnt exceed the motor speed (probably about 1v peak to give 2400 rpm) or whatever speed that motor should run at.
if its already running as analogue you shouldnt have to change much. if its running rs485 at present you may have to set parameters
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Re: My Big Project am I crazy
« Reply #25 on: March 07, 2010, 07:53:07 PM »
Ebay really has some good prices on the Galil Parts. I had not looked before because I had heard that Galil will not offer any kind of support if you did not buy from them and I wanted support. The pricing does make it tempting to give up the Galil Support and try and figure things out with out them.

I paid 4500 for the machine, got into a bidding war at the end so paid more than what I expected but still below what I had decided on for a maximum bid.

Looked at your videos, nice machine and good looking shop.

The inverter is wired up on inputs 8,10 so should be good to go.
Re: My Big Project am I crazy
« Reply #26 on: March 07, 2010, 07:59:21 PM »
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180336841561&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
every thing you need to get running!
the galil mach combination is great. easy to set up if you can follow a manual. and some good help on cnc zone and here from kcrouch & smurf
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Re: My Big Project am I crazy
« Reply #27 on: March 07, 2010, 08:01:47 PM »
lol. the shop is now my garage at home! couldnt afford to keep up the big place. im running off a diesel generator as i cant get 3 phase where i live
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Re: My Big Project am I crazy
« Reply #28 on: March 07, 2010, 11:30:38 PM »
lol. the shop is now my garage at home! couldnt afford to keep up the big place. im running off a diesel generator as i cant get 3 phase where i live

You probably don't need 3 phase.  I have rebuilt two CNC machines that were both 3 phase.  It turned out that the only thing that required 3 phase in each of them were the motors.  Virtually all VFDs sold now will run on single phase.  I would not be surprised if you could not get it to run on single phase.

Vince
Re: My Big Project am I crazy
« Reply #29 on: March 08, 2010, 04:49:08 AM »
maybe but i would have to buy new spindle drive etc. the problem i have is i only have a "flying" 80amp 230v supply to my home as im in the sticks. electric compant wanted a fortune to upgrade the supply.
my spindle is 7.5kw 380v 3 phase so i would be pushing the supply to melting point with the other things running here too.

besides most of my equipment requires 3 phase. to get it i just press the generator start button! no expensive electric bills , just pay as you go diesel
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