Machsupport Forum
Mach Discussion => Mach Screens => CVI MachStdMill (MSM) => Topic started by: aclausing on October 08, 2010, 10:32:11 AM
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Dave,
I have tried MSM again,and have it loaded on a new PC for the machine only. I ran the latest setup on the House PC and get th esame thing also. Load a file, and proceed to run, press cycle start, and goes to thee first line, and just quits, searches, and then runs a few lines, without doing anything ,and stops again. OK while it is in stoped mode,I am lookng for what might be happening on the screen, to see whats going on, first at the top, it says pulley too fast for.. clicking on path, to enlasrge the screen, it takes off again, and then stops.. Tried this on the Machine PC, and the same thing happens, only it is supposed to cut a small hole, but is in some kind of arc mode, and the tool path is way bigger than the whole part is. Says there is an error, I J command, but on the other PC it just stop's. Uninstalled both MSM and Mach 3.43.22 and went back to 3.42.32 and everything is fine..Except when the screen loads, Mach flash is first, then a White screen, for about 9 seconds, then the screen set loads. I'm going back to the screen s that I have, and will just wait, for somemore fixes. Just not willing to make a postive disicion as of yet. I think i had posted this before, when MSM first came out. Maybe It's Just My Stuff Too! Thanks, Hank S.
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Sounds like maybe your IJ mode is wrong in general config.
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Dave,
I thought about this, and if you want to work through this, I'm Game, just to see whats up with MY configuration, or what. Give me a PM, and I'll call you on a phone (MY DIME) and see if we can sort through this, if you want. Still seems as though someething is screwed up. bossproduction@comcast.net Thanks, Hank S.
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Ger21,
I thought about that, in the beginning, and the config's are the same. It will work on one screen set Mach3.42.32, while on another it will not Mach 3.43.22. It will run on one screen set, and errors on MSM, and Mach3.43.22 when upgraded. Thanks, Hank S.
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Hi Hank,
Dave,
I have tried MSM again, and have it loaded on a new PC for the machine only.
I ran the latest setup on the House PC and get the same thing also.
Sorry to hear you're having trouble. I've provided some comments below to points in your post. Given that MSM is in beta test, some problems are to be expected . The last data I had indicated that there are between 500 and 800 MSM beta users at this time. The lack of posted problems indicates that it's working pretty well for most of them. If they all were experiencing the types of things you describe, I'd expect a lot more posts here.
A basic question during the beta test period is “How is what happens in MSM different from the same test with 1024?”. The things you describe make it sound to me like whatever the root problem is you are seeing, it is unlikely to be MSM dependant.
Question: Are you running an eval or licensed copy of mach?
Load a file, and proceed to run, press cycle start, and goes to thee first line, and just quits, searches, and then runs a few lines, without doing anything ,and stops again.
Running a gcode file is all inside mach. Once you click the cycle start button, and the event is passed to mach, MSM has nothing to do with what is happening.
OK while it is in stoped mode,I am lookng for what might be happening on the screen, to see whats going on, first at the top, it says pulley too fast for..
That is a mach message, independent of any screen set. It says that the code attempted to start the spindle with an S word that is outside the range limits of the currently selected pulley set up.
clicking on path, to enlasrge the screen, it takes off again, and then stops..
Path display handling is again all in mach.
Tried this on the Machine PC, and the same thing happens, only it is supposed to cut a small hole, but is in some kind of arc mode, and the tool path is way bigger than the whole part is. Says there is an error, I J command, but on the other PC it just stop's.
An IJ error says that you do not have valid gcode. This can sometimes be caused by IJ mode configured in mach not matching what the gcode assumes.
Uninstalled both MSM and Mach 3.43.22 and went back to 3.42.32 and everything is fine..
I think that is a typo –
3.43.22 is the development release MSM requires.
3.42.40 is the lock down release.
Except when the screen loads, Mach flash is first, then a White screen, for about 9 seconds, then the screen set loads.
The delay between splash screen and MSM page appearance is the time mach takes to load the screen set. This happens before MSM is started. The time is dependant on the PC speed etc. MSM takes longer to load than 1024 – as it has larger bitmap images and many more of them.
I'm going back to the screen s that I have, and will just wait, for some more fixes. Just not willing to make a postive disicion as of yet.
I think i had posted this before, when MSM first came out. Maybe It's Just My Stuff Too! Thanks, Hank S.
No problem here. Use whatever works for you- not everyone wants to be a Beta tester.
Dave
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Dave,
I'll Post when You Return. Sent re. PM. Thanks, Hank S.
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You said that you get a message that says "pulley too fast" I've noticed that by default when you install a new update for MSM that the pulley speed is set at 25000 rpm and the pulley is set to 4. All of the pin assignments are also wiped out. What .xml file are you using? Are you copying over one that you are using with 3.42.32 ? I have witten down all my settings and just go thru and put all the pin assignments back to what I had before. I tried using an old .xml file and it really screwed things up. Just my 2 cents. ::)
Eric
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MSM installs wipe out your pulley setups? I've never had it do that here.
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Hi,
If you are finding that your xml settings are being changed, I am pretty positive that it is not MSM that is making the change.
I can say that as MSM does not alter the contents of any mach XML profile.
Any changes made to a Mach XML profile are done either by Mach itself, or by the user (via mach's configuration facilities).
Now then, I am aware of other mach add on programs that do write to mach's XML file and I personally consider that a very undesirable practice.
Please be aware that MSM does not store info in the mach profile. By design, MSM uses it's own separate configuration files - so that a bug in MSM won't result in a corrupted mach profile.
Dave
You said that you get a message that says "pulley too fast" I've noticed that by default when you install a new update for MSM that the pulley speed is set at 25000 rpm and the pulley is set to 4. All of the pin assignments are also wiped out. What .xml file are you using? Are you copying over one that you are using with 3.42.32 ? I have witten down all my settings and just go thru and put all the pin assignments back to what I had before. I tried using an old .xml file and it really screwed things up. Just my 2 cents. ::)
Eric
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Dave et All,
OK here is the jist of what Ihave seen and gone through. Pulley set too fast is pulley 4 and set to is 25000,is just set to pulley 1 set to 255000 for my bridge mill, and the speed is 25500 I set this and still get the error? never had a problem running the 1024 screen set and should work either in the blue screen, or whatever, Just Won't work For Me...... That said ,how come if I change screens and use different machine's without MSM losded,I get everything to work and don't have to go thhrough all my settings again and again, to get things to work. Something is not appling itself to the MSM, when it is to be used. Just that simple. AS for now,when something else come's along ,and is proven to work without reconfiguring the whole lot, I might give it a shot,but the way things stand,and my setups, with different machine xml's, I'm not going to go through the agrivation of doing so. Thought it would be easy to just apply the MSM and be off. Well, I guess WRONG. Now I'm staying with what I have and that's that. Aint gunna work HERE. And I Really don't think Mach has Anything to do with it............ end of story. As for the White screen, won't happen with MSM not loaded, so, and all Mach screens load and work fine, Blue or Otherwise,same with settings, all are fine. Thanks, Hank S.
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Hank,
I'm unsure how to help you at this moment. In a prior post in this thread, you requested one on one assistance:
Dave,
I thought about this, and if you want to work through this, I'm Game, just to see whats up with MY configuration, or what. Give me a PM, and I'll call you on a phone (MY DIME) and see if we can sort through this, if you want.
I responded to you offline to let you know that I could not do this in the immediate future as I needed to take a priority trip out of town for family reasons. You acknowledged that to me and so my understanding was that you were waiting until I could return and find time for some (free) one on one support.
Therefore I am a bit puzzled by your latest post in the thread. While I realize that it's hard to know what tone of voice to infer when reading an online post, your last post sounded to me as if you are feeling frustrated/angered by your experience with MSM. If that is indeed the case, I'm sorry to hear that.
When you write:
Now I'm staying with what I have and that's that. Aint gunna work HERE. And I Really don't think Mach has Anything to do with it............ end of story.
I read that as saying that you are done with MSM and no longer wish to figure out what problem you were experiencing. That is your choice to make.
If you should change your mind at a later date, let me know.
If I have time available then, I'll see what can be done to get you running with MSM.
Dave
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I thought of one more idea to offer re pulley speeds and MSM installs etc.
The only way I can think of that you could get the pully settings reset when installing MSM is if you are running the master MSM profile directly.
Please check that you are NOT starting mach with the profile "MachStdMill.xml".
One should never run Mach from the original master profiles (examples are MachStdMill.xml for MSM and Mach3Mill for 1024).
If you are using the master MSM profile, the installation instructions have not been followed correctly. I would then highly recommended a careful reread of section 5.2.10 of the MSM readme file - it gives detailed steps for making a profile to run MSM.
Any configuration changes made to a master profile are lost at the next install - as the master is overwritten by the installer.
FYI - I am adding a test to the next rev of MSM so that it will check for having been started from the master MSM profile.
I'll probably have MSM refuse to get past initialization in this case.
Dave
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Dave,
AhHa,
Let me read the manual again,and see, If I am right, mach std mill is the only one, of the few others, that are in the mach loader.
This may seem likly the problem... Thanks for the heads up. I just was fooling with it again since noon, and will leave the rest of my hair in my head now. Good reference. Thanks, Hank S.
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Hi Dave
I never run MSM from the master directory. I always do an uninstall of MSM before going to the next beta release. Some how the MSM XML file is getting over written not sure how but I'll do some checking when I install Beta 12. I'll look at my link on my desktop and make sure it is pointing to the right XML file. Thanks.
Eric.
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Dave,
I checked the Mach directory and the MachStdMill.xml file is there and time stamped for today and last time I used MSM. I did an uninstall of MSM and checked the Mach directory and MachStdMill.xml was gone. I installed beta 12 and MachStdMill.xml is back but it is time stamped for some time in August. Windows is removing the MachStdMill.xml file. It's not a biggy I have all my settings written down so it takes just a few minutes to get everything back up and running. Thanks.
Eric.
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Eric,
The MachStrdMill.xml file is the master profile for MSM. It is installed by the MSM install process, and it is removed when MSM is uninstalled as part of the uninstall process. the default location of the master file is c:\Mach3\MachStdMill.xml
The installation instructions (in the readme file) include steps to make a profile that you can put your machine specific settings into. There are two ways to do that - rather than my typing them here from memory, please refer to the readme file with the MSM installation instructions (Section 5.2.10).
I suspect that you have been running MSM with the master profile - and putting your machine specific settings into the master profile file.
That would explain why you loose settings when you install an MSM update. Every MSM install will overwrite the master profile - thus you are seeing your settings revert each time you do an update of MSM.
By following the installation instructions, one creates a custom (non-master) profile - that will not be overwritten when you next do an MSM update.
The good news is that you have gotten good at redoing your settings ;) the even better news is that if my theory is right, you'll ony have to do that once more and then the settings will stay the next time MSM is updated. ;D
Dave
Dave,
I checked the Mach directory and the MachStdMill.xml file is there and time stamped for today and last time I used MSM. I did an uninstall of MSM and checked the Mach directory and MachStdMill.xml was gone. I installed beta 12 and MachStdMill.xml is back but it is time stamped for some time in August. Windows is removing the MachStdMill.xml file. It's not a biggy I have all my settings written down so it takes just a few minutes to get everything back up and running. Thanks.
Eric.
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Eric,
there is no need to always uninstall MSM before installing an update.
The MSM installer is smart enough to check the currently installed MSM version and do an update.
If the installer requires an MSM uninstall first, it will tell you to uninstall and then run the MSM install again.
Additionally, if an uninstall is not required, the installer will happily update the current installed MSM version.
Dave
Hi Dave
I never run MSM from the master directory. I always do an uninstall of MSM before going to the next beta release. Some how the MSM XML file is getting over written not sure how but I'll do some checking when I install Beta 12. I'll look at my link on my desktop and make sure it is pointing to the right XML file. Thanks.
Eric.
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Hi Dave,
So what you're saying is let MSM decide whether it needs an uninstall or not. In earlier versions of MSM you recommended an uninstall before upgrade. This will make things simpler in the future. Thanks.
Eric
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Early during the beta program that was true - it was one of the things not yet implemented when the beta first started.
Later I improved the installer logic so MSM now knows what to do. Off the top of my head I don't remember in exactly which release that was added (it's in the release notes if anyone cares).
Right now the installer checks and if an uninstall is required, it puts up a dialog box to tell you; you then uninstall and restart the installer.
What I haven't done yet is have the installer do an automated, inline, uninstall when needed (that's on the "one day when I have nothing at all to do and feel like messing with the installer" to do list.
Dave
Hi Dave,
So what you're saying is let MSM decide whether it needs an uninstall or not. In earlier versions of MSM you recommended an uninstall before upgrade. This will make things simpler in the future. Thanks.
Eric
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Dave,
I had a chance to figure out what I was doing wrong,and finally got the screen to work. ''However'' in loading the screen from the mach loader,I find that the divice manager, the tell's you to choose printerport, or no devices, freezes, and the do not show me this again, I cannot click on it to do so. It wont let me, clicling on any of the buttons dont work, and just goes to the WhiteScreen and the loads. Next is the tool offset height, I always use 0.1 above the workpiece and is in the z safety at 0.5 which is in my programs GCode,never changed,and the result is, it is going 1.5 above the work piec and should'nt, I look all over the setting pages and status bars and cannot find how to change the setting. All the ZYZ A B C axis's are at 0.0000. loading a GCode that I always use,and did so before switching to MSM in the .1024 screen will not produce the 1.0000 rise in Z. Tried everything I know,and maybe thtas not enough,but dont know where esle to look. As for the screen itself, Great, just two things I cannot figure out. Thanks, Hank S.
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Hank,
Dave,
I had a chance to figure out what I was doing wrong,and finally got the screen to work. ''However'' in loading the screen from the mach loader,I find that the divice manager, the tell's you to choose printerport, or no devices, freezes, and the do not show me this again, I cannot click on it to do so. It wont let me, clicling on any of the buttons dont work, and just goes to the WhiteScreen and the loads.
There is a bug in Mach 3.43.22 - sounds to me like this is what you are seeing:
• Dialogs unresponsive during screen set load
Verified on 3.43.22
If Mach displays a dialog box when initializing (say to pick the hardware output device to use), the dialog will appear but then be “frozen” - until after Mach finishes loading the screen set. Once mach has finished loading, the dialog will be come active and you can then respond to it.
The work around to this Mach V3 bug is to simply be patient and wait for the screen set load process to complete.
Dialogs will respond "normally" once mach finishes it's load process.
Next is the tool offset height, I always use 0.1 above the workpiece and is in the z safety at 0.5 which is in my programs GCode,never changed,and the result is, it is going 1.5 above the work piec and should'nt, I look all over the setting pages and status bars and cannot find how to change the setting. All the ZYZ A B C axis's are at 0.0000. loading a GCode that I always use,and did so before switching to MSM in the .1024 screen will not produce the 1.0000 rise in Z. Tried everything I know,and maybe thtas not enough,but dont know where esle to look. As for the screen itself, Great, just two things I cannot figure out. Thanks, Hank S.
Lots of possibilities - Some ideas of things you can check:
1) You can see how all the offset calculation values on the WC-Offsets page - top panel.
confirm that the offsets are as you expect them to be.
See section 4 of the MSM manual
2) how are you setting Z0? What is the gage block height set to?
See MSM manual section 4.3.1
3) do you have safe-z configured?
Check the Mach safe-Z configuration settings.
Dave
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Dave,
I just run 3 parts on the new screen,''MSM'' and run real good far as i know right now. I did do more scouting around to find what was causing the Z to go to1.5000, and in settings, click spindles, and tangitial knife control, there is ,or was 1.0000 in the box for lift knife,rotation was at 45* and changed the lift portion to 0.0000, and clicked enter,and run the 3 programs . Funny that something that sinple is to cause such a error. I knew that this was not doing it in any of the Mach screens that I had used brfore, just being alittle observant. So I think I shall give it a rest for now, and fire it up in the AM for running parts. Glad you are so patient with all the fixes and your support, and putting up with grimlins, that I would just like to say; THANK YOU VERY MUCH. Go Rays.... Thanks , Hank S.