Hello Guest it is June 15, 2019, 07:25:06 PM

Author Topic: New to Mach3, seeking recommendations and ideas  (Read 7738 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

New to Mach3, seeking recommendations and ideas
« on: June 04, 2008, 12:54:40 PM »
Hi
 
I am currently retrofitting my first mach3 machine. I have retrofitted many machines using the ahha control but this is my first experience with mach.
 
The machine is a dyna 2800 and I am using a mach motion control cabinet with touch screen. The rest of the system is PMDX 131, 135-8020, 122, and a 106 for the spindle. The machine has a brushless AMC servo amp and motor. Axis drives are gecko G201
 
Currently I have 3 axis of motion and spindle control under mach.
 
I have a few questions I'm looking for suggestions on how to best handle them:
 
1. Spindle driver fault signal from the AMC servo amp.
 
I would like to have a separate input for this signal which would estop the system but show a spindle drive fault.
 

2. Spindle power supply over current circuit breaker
 
I would like to have a separate input for this signal which would estop the system but show a spindle power supply fault.
 

3. Spindle mechanical brake
 
On my ahha machines I have simply added a line to the M03, M04, and M05 m-code map file to enable and disable the brake. I'm not sure how to implement this in mach3. I would also like to have an m-function for the brake also.
 
I will control the electro mechanical magnetic brake with a 120 VAC solid state relay controlling a 24vdc power supply.
 
4. Oiler
 
Answer to #3 will solve this one as well.
 

5. Axis drive power supply
 
Currently the Axis drive power supply is controlled by at 120 VAC solid state relay driven by the charge pump circuit on the PMDX board.
 
This works but I don't like to remove power from the stepper drives every time there is a e-stop condition as the drives will loose position. On an ahha system, pushing estop caused all axis to ramp to a stop leaving the drives powered on. Returning from a e-stop condition didn't require resetting home and part zero.
 
I would like charge pump #1 to control the pmdx boards which would be disabled when in estop. The spindle power supply SSR is also connected to this charge pump.
 
I would like to use the second charge pump output to control the axis drive power supply and stay powered up during estop. I know about the check box to make this work this way but it seems that it only applies to the first charge pump. I would use a stand alone charge pump circuit for this.
 
In the beginning it was suggested I just hook the pc power supply 12 volts to the axis power supply SSR. This worked but as the pc powers up there are some glitches on the axis drives.
 
Anyone have any other ideas?
 
6. Auxiliary AC Outlet
Answer to #3 will solve this one as well.

7. Resolution (steps per inch)
 
The machine is currently configured to run at 50,800 steps per inch. The drives are 10 microstep G201 and I don't have the G901 boards installed.
 
The machine runs very smoothly but the resolution is quite un useable and this hurts the performance with the step limitations of mach3. I am running the kernel speed at 60K per machmotion.com's recommendation.
 
I am trying to decide whether I should just buy the G901 boards and reduce the drives resolution or just buy the smooth stepper board. Any opinions?
 

I welcome opinions and ideas and reference on how to deal with this.
 
Thanks in advance
 
Bill Griffin
grifftek @ grifftek . com
(cross posted to the mach support forum also)

Offline Hood

*
  •  25,843 25,843
  • Carnoustie, Scotland
    • View Profile
Re: New to Mach3, seeking recommendations and ideas
« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2008, 01:56:24 PM »

1. Spindle driver fault signal from the AMC servo amp.
 
I would like to have a separate input for this signal which would estop the system but show a spindle drive fault.

I have just made up a small bank of relays to do a similar thing, mine is a drive ready signal but your is just the opposite way round. What I have is the relays can be set up as individuals or all linked together by switching over a jumper. If all of the drives send a signal to each relay then the signal to Mach passes through each contact in turn, if one or more drives fault then the signal is lost and Mach faults out. My drives have loads of I/O so I can just use another to send a fault signal to Mach to show which drive has faulted but you could have it so that if the relay faults the NC contact of that relay goes to Mach and lights a screen LED to let you know which one is at fault. I will attach a pic of my board below.
 
2. Spindle power supply over current circuit breaker
 
I would like to have a separate input for this signal which would estop the system but show a spindle power supply fault.
As above, would have to link into the fault relays and seperate signal to Mach to light LED via the NC on the relay
 
3. Spindle mechanical brake
 
On my ahha machines I have simply added a line to the M03, M04, and M05 m-code map file to enable and disable the brake. I'm not sure how to implement this in mach3. I would also like to have an m-function for the brake also.
 
I will control the electro mechanical magnetic brake with a 120 VAC solid state relay controlling a 24vdc power supply.

You can just add some script to the M3,M4 and M5 macros to do whatever you want, you can also write a seperate macro to do the brake output and call that from code..

4. Oiler
 
Answer to #3 will solve this one as well.
As above, macros.
 
5. Axis drive power supply
 
Currently the Axis drive power supply is controlled by at 120 VAC solid state relay driven by the charge pump circuit on the PMDX board.
 
This works but I don't like to remove power from the stepper drives every time there is a e-stop condition as the drives will loose position. On an ahha system, pushing estop caused all axis to ramp to a stop leaving the drives powered on. Returning from a e-stop condition didn't require resetting home and part zero.
 
I would like charge pump #1 to control the pmdx boards which would be disabled when in estop. The spindle power supply SSR is also connected to this charge pump.
 
I would like to use the second charge pump output to control the axis drive power supply and stay powered up during estop. I know about the check box to make this work this way but it seems that it only applies to the first charge pump. I would use a stand alone charge pump circuit for this.
 
In the beginning it was suggested I just hook the pc power supply 12 volts to the axis power supply SSR. This worked but as the pc powers up there are some glitches on the axis drives.
 
Anyone have any other ideas?
Will have to read through this again to make sure I followed but from first glance I think the e-stop should always need a re-ref as it is open loop so no way for the control to know if steps have been lost. The system you seem to be describing on the AHHA sounds more like the feed hold to me, ie if it ramps to a halt it is not an E-Stop as it has taken time to decelerate properly. An emergency stop is exactly that, a last resort and as such you want immediate halt to your motors not a ramped stop.



6. Auxiliary AC Outlet
Answer to #3 will solve this one as well.


7. Resolution (steps per inch)
 
The machine is currently configured to run at 50,800 steps per inch. The drives are 10 microstep G201 and I don't have the G901 boards installed.
 
The machine runs very smoothly but the resolution is quite un useable and this hurts the performance with the step limitations of mach3. I am running the kernel speed at 60K per machmotion.com's recommendation.
 
I am trying to decide whether I should just buy the G901 boards and reduce the drives resolution or just buy the smooth stepper board. Any opinions?
 

 SmoothStepper all the way, its not perfect yet but Greg is working on the last few bits and hopefully should be completed soon. I was testing the Beta SS and now have it on a coil winder I made, I also have a release version SS on my mill and one is waiting for Greg to get the spindle sync done and I will have it on my lathe. I do a lot of threading with the lathe so that is the reason it is not on it already.

Hood

Offline Hood

*
  •  25,843 25,843
  • Carnoustie, Scotland
    • View Profile
Re: New to Mach3, seeking recommendations and ideas
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2008, 01:58:24 PM »
The board above is actually the one for my limits, dont have the other one for the healthy signal, as mentioned above, here in the house. They are very similar though so it will give you an idea of what I mean (I hope :D  )

Hood

Offline poppabear

*
  • *
  •  2,231 2,231
  • Briceville, TN, USA
    • View Profile
    • S S Systems, LLC
Re: New to Mach3, seeking recommendations and ideas
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2008, 09:02:40 AM »
Bill,
 
   Here is a copy of the reply I posted to you over on the Yahoo group the other day, couldnt find you here they day you posted there.....

Re: New to Mach3, seeking recommendations and ideas


Bill,

First off, Welcome to the group, here are my opions about your
questions, there are many ways to
do what you ask, so I am sure others here will give you alternate
solutions. That is the good thing
about this board, you can get all kinds of ways people have solved or
would solve an issue your having.

Anserwing the last question 1st, yes, move up to the Smooth Stepper
to solve your pulse/movement issue.
I wont bother with telling you to add a second P Port for your I/O
since you wouldnt be happy ultimatly with
the motion you get. So all the following "Opions" are based on the SS.

E-Stop: If you E-Stop Mach (Reset button), for any reason you have
lost steps in Mach, so it is a moot question
at the Drives. You will need to have a "Feed Hold" or "Stop"
condition activate on non-critical errors, and
E-Stop on Critical errors. The Feedhold will keep your steps, but
what ever current line your on, it will run
to the end. The Stop will decelerate per your axis profile right
where it is.

On your inputs below if more than the SS can handle, depending on how
fancy you want to get, I would probably use Arturos M11 or M13 modbus
board,
or a PLC if you want intellegent I/O. If you have enough free inputs
with the Smooth stepper then you wont
need the above.


1. Spindle driver fault signal from the AMC servo amp.

I would like to have a separate input for this signal which would
estop the system but show a spindle drive fault.

/// you have two options, if you want the error to flash a user Led
an with an error lable next to it use brains.
If you want a message to scroll, use the macropump with an interlock
and set a "Ticker", message when that input goes
hot, it will scroll the error message(and can also use a combination
of the two).

2. Spindle power supply over current circuit breaker

I would like to have a separate input for this signal which would
estop the system but show a spindle power supply fault.

///see answer #1 above

3. Spindle mechanical brake

On my ahha machines I have simply added a line to the M03, M04, and
M05 m-code map file to enable and disable the brake. I'm not sure
how to implement this in mach3. I would also like to have an m-
function for the brake also.

I will control the electro mechanical magnetic brake with a 120 VAC
solid state relay controlling a 24vdc power supply.

///You can add code to your M3 and M4 macros to handle your Brake on
and
///your M5 can handle the brake off as well.
///Note: under ports and pins, under spindle, set your Spin up, and
spin down delay time to
///some value in seconds, that your spindle needs.
/// Here is the adjusted M3, 4 and M5 edit the output signals for
your situation
///I am assuming you brake is always on, unles told to turn off.
///Open vb editor under the operator dropdown, brows to the macros
folder under mach3, then look for your
///machines "Profile" folder, open up the M3.m1s, (same for the M4,
and M5) edits to macros follow
///save them make sure they are saving in the folder you got them
from, and that your saving it
///with the correct name.

'M3.m1s
ActivateSignal(OUTPUT6) 'Brake off, this output on, releases the
brake
DoSpinCW()

'M4.m1s
ActivateSignal(OUTPUT6) 'Brake off
DoSpinCCW()

'M5.m1s
DeActivateSignal(OUTPUT6) 'Brake on
DoSpinStop()

Custom Spindle Brake macros:

'M1000.m1s
ActivateSignal(OUTPUT6)

'M1001.m1s
DeActivateSignal(OUTPUT6)

4. Oiler

///Note: what you can do here is, in Brains, have it look at the
spindle CW and CCW LED through a "Or" lobe.
///When eigther of those are on (the spindle is running), send that
through the Timer, pick
///some value like squirt oil every 5-30 minutes of spindle run time,
make it cumlative, set
///the Terminator to the output# that goes to your Oiler motor/pump

5. Axis drive power supply

Currently the Axis drive power supply is controlled by at 120 VAC
solid state relay driven by the charge pump circuit on the PMDX
board.

This works but I don't like to remove power from the stepper drives
every time there is a e-stop condition as the drives will loose
position. On an ahha system, pushing estop caused all axis to ramp
to a stop leaving the drives powered on. Returning from a e-stop
condition didn't require resetting home and part zero.

I would like charge pump #1 to control the pmdx boards which would
be disabled when in estop. The spindle power supply SSR is also
connected to this charge pump.

I would like to use the second charge pump output to control the
axis drive power supply and stay powered up during estop. I know
about the check box to make this work this way but it seems that it
only applies to the first charge pump. I would use a stand alone
charge pump circuit for this.

In the beginning it was suggested I just hook the pc power supply 12
volts to the axis power supply SSR. This worked but as the pc powers
up there are some glitches on the axis drives.

//// E-Stop notes at the beginning, about loosing steps.
//// You can have one of your 6 ENABLE output signals control your
Drive PS relay
/// The charge pump issues are for the Parallel ports, it really
doesnt apply to the Smooth stepper
///it only loads when the Plugin loads. The charge pumps where for
safety since when windows boots
///it can randomly twiddle the PP as it comes up. SS doesnt come on
line until Mach is up.


6. Auxiliary AC Outlet

///solutions as above


7. Resolution (steps per inch)

The machine is currently configured to run at 50,800 steps per inch.
The drives are 10 microstep G201 and I don't have the G901 boards
installed.

The machine runs very smoothly but the resolution is quite un
useable and this hurts the performance with the step limitations of
mach3. I am running the kernel speed at 60K per machmotion.com's
recommendation.

I am trying to decide whether I should just buy the G901 boards and
reduce the drives resolution or just buy the smooth stepper board.
Any opinions?

///Smooth Stepper.

Scott
Commercial Mach3 & Mach 4, Design/Build/Retrofit CNC and Industrial machines.
http://www.ss-systems-llc.com/
Re: New to Mach3, seeking recommendations and ideas
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2008, 09:44:01 PM »
Original posts snipped!

Thanks for the reply Hood and Scott! I was hoping there would be more opinions and suggestions with all the activity on these groups but maybe I should have posted individual posts instead of one big one.

I have been busy with some other things and will probably have some more specific questions once I get back in the shop.

Thanks
Bill Griffin

Offline jeep534

*
  •  117 117
  • From the hills of WV
    • View Profile
Re: New to Mach3, seeking recommendations and ideas
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2008, 01:37:10 PM »
Original posts snipped!

Thanks for the reply Hood and Scott! I was hoping there would be more opinions and suggestions with all the activity on these groups but maybe I should have posted individual posts instead of one big one.

I have been busy with some other things and will probably have some more specific questions once I get back in the shop.

Thanks
Bill Griffin
as for no more post's/ opinions that is because all the rest of us are mostly crawling and asking the same things as you are.
scott, Hood thanks for the Insight. it answered quite a few questions I have had.
I am still wrestling as to how to set up the electronics on my mill.
archie =) =) =)

Offline Hood

*
  •  25,843 25,843
  • Carnoustie, Scotland
    • View Profile
Re: New to Mach3, seeking recommendations and ideas
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2008, 02:01:52 PM »
You'll get there Archie but if you need any help just post on the forum and I am sure someone will be able to help you out if I cant. Everyday I am learning something new and thankfully I seem to be past the stage of letting the magic smoke escape :D

Hood

Offline jeep534

*
  •  117 117
  • From the hills of WV
    • View Profile
Re: New to Mach3, seeking recommendations and ideas
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2008, 02:20:32 PM »
You'll get there Archie but if you need any help just post on the forum and I am sure someone will be able to help you out if I cant. Everyday I am learning something new and thankfully I seem to be past the stage of letting the magic smoke escape :D

Hood

You better watch that Magic smoke.  A series1 bridgeport CNC servo machine has a lot of STUFF to control I have made a Visio drawing of what I think I want to do but am not real sure of how to impliment it. I am planning to use the Smoothe Stepper and all CNC4PC Boards Including the Modbus and the Pendant. what I am not sure about is which of those boards do I need. there are a bunch of them. there is no real place to pose that kind of question to them.
archie =) =) =)
Re: New to Mach3, seeking recommendations and ideas
« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2008, 02:21:28 PM »
Are there any mach 3 users in the Los Angeles area that would be interested in getting together to discuss mach and cnc stuff in general?

I am in Santa Fe Springs

Bill

Offline da21

*
  •  87 87
    • View Profile
    • M-Machine
Re: New to Mach3, seeking recommendations and ideas
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2008, 03:50:36 AM »
Jeep534 ,

don't be frightened over posting your viso files etc , or asking for advice , even if you think it is so simple etc , their are a few people who have experience of retrofiting all types of  machines , better to ask first , than to have a major problem later , or buy totaly wrong components  , after all , we all had to start somewhere


Dave