I have so many questions, but I will start with why in the world would Mach remove the Diagnostics tab in there screens??
The big question I have and has been beaten to death but I still cannot figure it out is why can I not get A) any of the axis to back off of the homing switch when I use the switch as a dual limit and home? B) if I disable the limits and just have the switches as home then all the axis back off except Z and I have to actually give it an offset to retract from the switch? C) why won't Z axis go to its work zero when called to but all others do?
I have been putting this off now for over a year and I just expanded my table to 10' so I thought it would be a good time to make the dreaded change. I am sure I am missing something easy so any help would be appreciated.

Hi,

I have so many questions, but I will start with why in the world would Mach remove the Diagnostics tab in there screens??

The screen set is editable, so find the screen set that has the best Diagnostics tab in it, Copy and paste it into your current screen set.

The big question I have and has been beaten to death but I still cannot figure it out is why can I not get A) any of the axis to back off of the homing switch when I use the switch as a dual limit and home? B) if I disable the limits and just have the switches as home then all the axis back off except Z and I have to actually give it an offset to retract from the switch? C) why won't Z axis go to its work zero when called to but all others do?

Homing is a realtime procedure and it by definition handled by the motion controller autonomously. The questions you pose are actually about the motion controller behaviour not Mach4.

For example for some years it was possible if you were using a PoKeys57CNC to have the axis back off a certain distance of a home switch, but few, in fact none of the other motion controllers
had that feature. Over a period of time other manufacturers did so....but note, it was the responsibility of the motion control manufacturer to do so not Mach4.

Note this is different to Home Offset. That is a feature of Mach, and has been since the earliest days of Mach. When an axis homes it travels towards the home switch until the switch activates.
The machine slows to a stop and then backs up until the switch de-activates. Depending on the switch the back-up is only 1/2 a mm or so. The motion control reports to Mach that
the axis is now Homed, and Mach duly sets the machine coordinates of that axis to zero........unless you have programmed a Home Offset, it which case the machine coordinate of that
axis is set to the Home Offset instead.

This might occur because for instance your Home switch is 100mm from the end of the axis but there was too many things in the way to put it right at the end. So you would program the
Home Offset to be 100mm and when Mach set the machine coordinate it would set it at 100mm. So despite homing to a switch that was still 100mm away from the end when the Homing
procedure was finished Mach would still 'know' where the end is. That is what Home Offset is for.

But please note Home Offset does not move the machine anywhere, its just a numeric adjustment to the Homing routine. Various manufacturers call it by different things, but mostly some variation
of 'Back Off Distance'. But again note that this is in some ways redundant because all you had to do with a controller that did not have Back-Off, was to home the machine and then call a G0 Xnnn.
as the first move, and lo the axis would back off the required distance. All the manufacturers have done is to include that extra move command automatically....you don't even see it.
You could however replicate it...its not that hard.

C) why won't Z axis go to its work zero when called to but all others do?

If you look at the GotoWorkZero() function in the screen load script you'll see that it only includes the X and Y axes. If you want it to include the Z axis just put it in....but be prepared for some
major crashes!!! In fact if you go to do this will you let me know...I could do with the entertainment!!! I joke. The last thing you want is the Z axis diving down to the Work Zero, commonly
the surface of the material. If you made as much as a 1mm mistake in your Work Zero you'd drive the tool hard into the material.

As I say put that code in there if you like but remember you asked for it.

I've been using Mach4 for eight years, and I've never found it necessary to drive the Z axis down into the danger zone that aggressively. Nor have I found it necessary to have an automated
back off distance, the machine homes and sits there waiting for me to jog to a convenient work location. If I felt the need I would attach the back off movement command at the completion of the
Homing procedure and not bother my motion control with it at all. I suppose I could use my ESS as it has back off feature, I've never had need to use it.

Craig

Hi Craig,

The screen set is editable.
This was the entire reason I for putting SCAERED in my title as I am far from a programmer. I did however figure it out and did make it happen. I have to figure out load the touch plate stuff as well.

The questions you pose are actually about the motion controller behaviour not Mach4.
I am not sure I understand as I did come from Mach3 and I am comparing 4 to 3 as well. It was working as I suggested in Mach3.
This is somewhat confusing to me though as I would "think" it would be Mach that would ask the axis to move to the switch and then back off. I am using an ESS but I would not be apposed to getting a new one if I needed to.

If you look at the GotoWorkZero() function in the screen load script you'll see that it only includes the X and Y axes. If you want it to include the Z axis just put it in....but be prepared for some
major crashes!!!
I cant believe you would take joy in a crash HEHEHE I have figured out that if you stick your finger inbetween the bit and the bed you wont harm the tool 
Again I am comparing from Mach3. If you were not able to go to Z Zero how would you know if you made a mistake or not? I will definitely look into adding that as you pointed out.

the machine homes and sits there waiting for me to jog to a convenient work location. If I felt the need I would attach the back off movement command at the completion of the Homing procedure and not bother my motion control with it at all.
This could very well be what I am missing?? I am going to assume you have HOMING and LIMIT switches independently of each other?? Can I assume what you are saying is I need to program in a BACK OFF PROCEEDURE in Mach4??

Lastly do you know where I can find a video that shows you how to change the touch button to be automated like it was in Mach3 using the AutoTouchPlate?

Thanks again as this is a bit of a learning experience to me and hard to find people that like to teach what they know!

Hi,

it would be Mach that would ask the axis to move to the switch and then back off. I am using an ESS but I would not be apposed to getting a new one if I needed to.

In a sense you are right, but remember that Mach issues movement instructions which end up in a buffer, many hundreds of milliseconds long whereas the motion controller
can do things immediately or at least within a few microseconds, near enough to immediately. For instance let say Mach was waiting on the Home switch to operate.
The home switch operates and then Mach would be signalled up to 25ms later, then Mach would issue deceleration moves and they would propagate through the
motion buffer, say another 180ms. It just takes too damned long, the machine would have crashed before Mach knew anything about it. For this reason the motion
board must do Homing autonomously. It reports back to Mach when its done, but the motion controller is what does the business. Mach (3 or 4) has always been this way.

I am going to assume you have HOMING and LIMIT switches independently of each other??

I personally have done that with my new machine. I have three independent Home switches and six independent Limit switches , each one on their own input. You don't have to do it this way,
but I did. My new mill does 25m/min so I decided I wanted independent Limits switches, and just so Mach is at no time confused three independent Home switches as well.

Can I assume what you are saying is I need to program in a BACK OFF PROCEEDURE in Mach4??

The ESS has a back off provision, although I've never used it. You could alternately program such a move so that it happens automatically, either has the same result.
Internally the ESS does the move  automatically just as you would program it.

Lastly do you know where I can find a video that shows you how to change the touch button to be automated like it was in Mach3 using the AutoTouchPlate?

There are example scripts that ship with mach that you can copy and adapt to your machine. I seem to recall Daz-the-Gaz released a video dealing with that, look up the video section
of the board. Daz's videos are a great resource for newcomers.

Mach3 and Mach4 are sufficiently different that some ideas in Mach3 are just not applicable in Mach4. There is  feature  in Mach4 called the Signal Library and the signal script,.....its a whole new way
of dealing with signals and puts Mach3 in the shade. There is a catch.....it will do your head in for a wee while, thereafter you'll be fine, but initially its just not that easy.

Craig

Well, again I cant thank you enough for the help but being the slow leaner I am I still cannot grasp why Mach3 worked and 4 doesn't. I can't even get the Jog button to jog the freaking gantry .010" increments. The green light comes on but it still runs full tilt. Now you know why I said I was scared. I don't believe Mach4 is capable of helping the non-programmer which really sucks. I really would have thought the basics would have stayed the same like backing off a switch. It all worked in 3 even incremental jogging. I really did not want to spend hours researching on how to use this software, but I may not have a choice. I'm sorry to vent just frustrated.

As I say put that code in there if you like but remember you asked for it. I might not put that code in but again I am used to Mach3 and I never crashed it in over 2yrs BUT I agree there is always a first:)

Wow I do wish I had all those safeties. I had an AVID 4x4 and I just converted it to a 10' with hopes of putting a 4th axis on the end. I have had to do a ton of wiring as you could imagine. I am using 1 C11G and 1 C10 and believe they are on the lower end of the scale for CNC boards. I would like to upgrade to something with more inputs and able to utilize 12v so I can use proxies. What board do you use to supply all those inputs?

Just out of curiosity is the latest Mach4 OK to use? I see some warnings that Mach4 Hobby Version 2.0.5036 is not recommended?? Did I do bad by downloading this? I did load and older version but then loaded this after seeing it on the home page of Mach
So many videos and warnings but most of them are really outdated.
This is the warning on Warp9's website,
NOTE!!!! Build 5000 is having probing issues with the ESS plugin... Mach4 Build 4809 with ESS 283 is what we are recommending at the moment. January 15th, 2023

OK I figured out the increments but not sure how to make the keyboard work with it yet! Going to make my first cut 

Hi,

I don't believe Mach4 is capable of helping the non-programmer which really sucks.

Rubbish, Mach4 is ready to rock for all basic machines, no programming required. You do need to turn on or off a couple of features but that's it. You can be making chips in under an hour.

Homing in Mach4 behaves exactly like Homing in Mach3.

I really would have thought the basics would have stayed the same like backing off a switch.

That was NEVER in Mach3, certainly at the beginning, and it is still not in Mach3 per se but in  the  motion controller....and always has been. Whats happening here is that you have
become accustomed to the features of Mach3 which have sought of evolved....and imagine that they are standard features....they are not. Now you have to actually understand how they
work and replicate that behaviour in Mach4 and given you do not understand how it was done in Mach3 makes it tricky. Its not that Mach4 is hard just that Mach3 had a lot of funny
work-around features which should probably never have been there.

The people whom struggle with Mach4 are those with a long history of Mach3. They seem to imagine the shortcuts, work-arounds and downright bugs in Mach are the 'standard' way of
doing things or worse the only way of doing things...they are not. Mach4 is and was purposely designed to be as close to identical as possible to Fanuc 21i, being as close to an industry standard
as there is. Mach4 can be made to do all the things that Mac3 could and many many more, but whats really important is that it conform to Fanuc21i right from the get go out of the box.
All the frilly bits can be added later.

When I first stared with Mach4, I had within a few months programmed a lot of features that replicated what Mach3 had....but over a period of time they have all disappeared.
In the end I decided they added little or nothing....so the only custom parts to my current Mach4 installation are actually things I use and are productive for me. Anything
else is just wasting time when I should be getting on with the paying work.

I can't even get the Jog button to jog the freaking gantry .010" increments. The green light comes on but it still runs full tilt.

Have you filled out the jog increments on the Control Plugin page? It sounds like you are suffering from after-run which is where the 'clicks' or increments accumulate faster than the
machine can consume them and therefore they get 'saved' up and will carry on even once you stop jogging. This is a common fault, and used to happen in Mach3 in exactly the same
way and for exactly the same reason. It turns out the machine is doing exactly what you tell it to do.....but your settings have made after-run that much more likely.

There are a couple of threads on the Mach4 board that deal with exactly this and there is a thread on the Warp9TD forum that deals with it also.

What board do you use to supply all those inputs?

I made my own. Its not that dissimilar to an MB3 by CNCRoom. All three ports are fully developed, all 24V tolerant. All Step/Dir outputs (12 of them) are differential.
Has a 24VDC output for the Z axis brake, a built-in high linearity PWM to analog converter and ON/OFF relay for a VFD driven spindle.

Note that my breakout board has eight pin sockets down the lower side, one plug for each axis servo, all of them X,Y,Z,A,B and C....and yes I have a C axis, that is an angular position
capable spindle that allows me to do rigid tapping.

Craig

Hi,

NOTE!!!! Build 5000 is having probing issues with the ESS plugin... Mach4 Build 4809 with ESS 283 is what we are recommending at the moment. January 15th, 2023

Yes, that is correct. When NFS released build 5000 there are certain sections of code which now run blazingly fast, so much so that many motion controllers including the ESS couldn't
keep up. It created a race condition. Most of the motion board manufacturers are making changes necessary to accommodate the much increased speed.

My current build is 4612 and ESS 277. I've been using them for months, may be even a year. Prior to that I had been using build 38nn?? or something, I can't remember, but it had been in use on my
machine for two or three years. I eventually updated to 4612 but as far as I know there is nothing in the latest builds (5000 or thereabouts) I need or want....so why bother?
It comes down to what I posted earlier, my machine is for making parts, if the software is working well now then all I'm doing is wasting time instead of getting on with the work I should be doing.

Craig

Hi,
speaking of what I should be doing, I have attached a pic of my fourth axis, I finished it about 8 weeks ago.

I will take the chuck off and substitute a trunnion table and a fifth axis soon. The pic attached is of the fifth axis parts I've got so far.
I have the 750W Delta servo and drive, a you 'beauty' low lash <1 arc min Atlanta Drives servo reducer. I need to reduce the profile so the
trunnion can rotate +90 and -90 degrees without the servo fouling the mill bed so this servo  will be pulley and belt coupled, the pulleys are pictured.
Still need the belt. Have a big lump of 4140 steel that has been rough turned for the C axis platter.

Will hopefully be able to squeeze the budget a bit tighter and get the steel for the trunnion table cut next week. Looking for 32mm thick for the base of the trunnion
and 20mm thick for the uprights. Will have to be bolted.....my nearest heat treat facility is now 1500km away, although this should not be huge or overly heavy
so welding and heat treating may yet be on the cards.

Craig

Rubbish, Mach4 is ready to rock for all basic machines, no programming required.
The reason I say that it is not simple, lets take an easy one such as the Keyboard Function, I would think that this would have an easy option to make it come on as soon as Mach is opened but it does not. You have to go in and program it to come on and there are just not enough videos out there to show you how to do this type of stuff. I am not a programmer and have been struggling to get simple things like this to work. For industrial software I would say yeah its pretty good but for a hobbyist I might have waisted $200. OH well I will figure it out but again just frustrating. Your definitely correct the people whom struggle with Mach4 are those with a long history of Mach3.

By what you are saying I really dont need to worry about changing back to an earlier version of Mach as I dont think I do enough on this machine to worry about code speeds or race conditions (I hope)
The pics you posted are of a tank for a 4th axis. I am really hoping to get to this point sometime soon. Are you machining metals with that?
Are you in the states? You do any YouTube vids??