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Offline Davek0974

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Probing - what would i need?
« on: March 31, 2018, 06:12:16 AM »
Hi all,

I'm currently using a Haimer 3d taster for setting my work coordinates, works well but its manual ;)

What would i be looking to get to setup auto edge detection routines and I guess I would also need to setup auto tool height setting as i currently use an off-machine tool height setter and the two are relative are they not?

I have watched some u-tube stuff but they all have multi-million £ Renishaw kit and thats just fantasy for me :)

Is there a workable budget setup?
Bridgeport Mill, Mach3 V062, CSMIO-IP/A controller, AC Servo Drives

Offline RICH

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Re: Probing - what would i need?
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2018, 07:32:17 AM »
For probing I would suggest you create a custom probing page or wizard  that works the way you want it to work based on how you work.
Simplisticaly that screen would allow probing of  all the tools and population / manipulation of the tool table . Additionaly you could have it probe
for location, set and create work offsets etc,.....all kinds of things.

Remember that all tools relate to the  master tool but all tools also relate to each other.
If you have use an off machine setter and manualy  populate the tool table that is similar to probing each tool.
The difference is how the info was acquired. Probe each tool  and compare data to what got when manualy done.
Probing tools for my lathe is very accurate and repeatable ( +- 0.0002").

You don't need any fancy probes. For probing locations I use a home made probe with replacable tips and it is very accurate.
It's how the probe is made that is important and used that is important such the probe has no runout. Remember that data from
probing will only be as accurate as YOUR machines system.

So make a custom screen set or custom page to satisfy whatever you want to do and accomplish.

RICH

Offline Davek0974

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Re: Probing - what would i need?
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2018, 08:36:53 AM »
Thanks Rich,

Yes a custom screen would be good.

I'm trying to figure out how it all plays - currently I have the off-machine setter that reads the heights of all tools including the Haimer probe and then sends that data to the tool table (one at a time)

Now, if I use a probe in the spindle - this would set Z,X,Y when it contacts the work in whatever direction?

So, how are tool lengths set - do i also need a touch-plate as well??

Not sure what the whole picture is here??
Bridgeport Mill, Mach3 V062, CSMIO-IP/A controller, AC Servo Drives

Offline TPS

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Re: Probing - what would i need?
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2018, 10:28:12 AM »
Yes a custom screen would be good.
and necessary

I'm trying to figure out how it all plays - currently I have the off-machine setter that reads the heights of all tools including the Haimer probe and then sends that data to the tool table (one at a time)
the probe will be a tool as well

Now, if I use a probe in the spindle - this would set Z,X,Y when it contacts the work in whatever direction?
exactly

So, how are tool lengths set - do i also need a touch-plate as well??
if you use the probe as a tool of tooltable (lenght), it will be the same like your Haimer probe
for Metall surfaces you do not Need a touchplate, on your CSMIO you have seperate connectors
of + and - for each Input, so connect the + direct to 24V supply + and the - to the isolated
probe, this makes necessary that the - of the 24V Power supply is grounded.
now everytime your probe touches the material the Input will come up.
anything is possible, just try it.
if you find some mistakes, in my bad bavarian english,they are yours.

Offline Davek0974

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Re: Probing - what would i need?
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2018, 04:16:05 PM »
The 2010 screenset has what looks like a pretty comprehensive probing screen - its all macro driven so tweaking it should be simple.

Ok, I'm still in the mud here re the probe - the machine is currently connected to 0v as i use a touch plate on the high-speed setup as that cannot use the tool table. in that setup, the plate is live and the tool grounds it when contact is made - I believe this is pretty much standard touch plate probing?

Now, on the Bridgeport setup, I will have the probe as an insulated device that is connected to my probe input, and touching the workpiece will will ground it = same result and all OK.

However, when i probe a tool length - what will it do - the tool is grounded already so there is no circuit???
Bridgeport Mill, Mach3 V062, CSMIO-IP/A controller, AC Servo Drives

Offline RICH

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Re: Probing - what would i need?
« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2018, 06:29:14 AM »
What I did was review  many different screen sets and probing suggestions and pick what I thought was the best of the best.
If a purchased screen set satisfies what you want to do then it's worth the couple of bucks to purchase it  since it takes time to do one.
I wanted to do more than just do tool setup and wanted to add practical  functionality from probing data. So more buttons and scripting than the typical probing you find. That said you end up with conditions one needs to address like your last reply.

Suggest you  think about the  big picture of what you want  and what is required for how you work. 

Just some thoughts,

RICH






 

Offline Davek0974

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Re: Probing - what would i need?
« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2018, 08:53:24 AM »
I already have the 2010 screen set and the probing section looks ok but I can add to it as needed I think.

Not 100% what i actually want, but having seen a load of videos, I am not sure why i am still jogging about manually and setting my co-ords when the machine can do it for me with just a tiny input and a button press :)

What I would like is to fit a probe, tell it what corner or hole I want set my ref to, press GO and let it sort it all out for me - XYZ all ref'd.
Also if i wanted to centre on a part I would tell it the rough width of said part, plonk the probe over it and go again - it would probe both edges, and set DRO to mid point.
So on.

Next I need to probe all my tools - I use the tool table 100% so all the tools for the current job need measuring and referencing to my probe - this is where I am fumbling about - I can see the work detection being easy with an insulated probe connected to my existing probe input, what I can't see is how i ref the tools to the probe???

I know its all possible but...
Bridgeport Mill, Mach3 V062, CSMIO-IP/A controller, AC Servo Drives

Offline Davek0974

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Re: Probing - what would i need?
« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2018, 12:14:12 PM »
Thinking on....the bits are slowly falling into place possibly.... ;)

I need a fixed touch-plate somewhere on the bed (could be movable I guess but...) This would be connected to my probe input.

I know the height of this plate/block etc. lets say 25.00mmm for fun.

I would need a fixed (insulated) probe permanently mounted in a holder, it would have a ball-end of known diameter.


What I keep getting muddled over is where is the correlation from fixed probe to tool height??

Presently, I zero my height setter, place tool or probe, measure and enter the result in the two table - this works 100%

But what would i zero on the mill? Is G53 Z0 the reference?

If yes then I can see it all playing possibly:-

Place probe in spindle, probe until touch plate reached, read current machine DRO for Z and set that in the tool table after subtracting my 25mm offset.
Place tool in spindle, probe until triggered, store Z machine DRO, subtracting offset again.

Then i can probe the work and the lot should work I think??

BUT....

What happens when I break a tool and need a reset - the knee will have moved and now my Z ref is no longer correct :)

Confusion much :)

Bridgeport Mill, Mach3 V062, CSMIO-IP/A controller, AC Servo Drives

Offline Davek0974

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Re: Probing - what would i need?
« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2018, 01:34:49 PM »
I'm guessing that before probing a surface OR setting a tool height, I would have to drive the knee axis to a known, fixed position??

It would all make more sense then, I think ;)

Currently my knee axis (C) DRO is zeroed at the time I press Z zero, I use this in my tool length offset calculations to position the knee each time.
Bridgeport Mill, Mach3 V062, CSMIO-IP/A controller, AC Servo Drives

Offline TPS

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Re: Probing - what would i need?
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2018, 01:48:54 AM »
Hi Dave,

let's say  you have a isolated probe permanent in a holder.
you meassure the lenght of this probe with your height setter for example as tool 200.

if you want to do a probe of your z-surface you do a normal toolchange to tool 200.
then you do a automatic z-Zero (in G54) with the probe, then all other tool height
are correct to this new z-Zero (workpiece).

Thats no other procedure like you do it with your Haimer probe, or ?

Thomas

btw CSMIO uses M31 for probing, but G31 works as well.
anything is possible, just try it.
if you find some mistakes, in my bad bavarian english,they are yours.