Hello Guest it is April 22, 2021, 02:45:45 PM

Author Topic: Mach3 for Large CNC Router Table - or Not?  (Read 3971 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline ger21

*
  • *
  •  6,289 6,289
    • View Profile
    • The CNC Woodworker
Re: Mach3 for Large CNC Router Table - or Not?
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2018, 09:43:43 AM »
Camaster's use WinCNC.
Gerry

2010 Screenset
http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

JointCAM Dovetail and Box Joint software
http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html
Re: Mach3 for Large CNC Router Table - or Not?
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2018, 07:44:00 PM »
I have a vendor with a 10 foot x 20 foot x 4 foot, five axis router they paid 750K for it!  They got a quote to build two aluminum molds for $600K and decided to put the money in a bigger machine since they already had a smaller one.  Very cool machine.

Offline jeep534

*
  •  123 123
  • From the hills of WV
    • View Profile
Re: Mach3 for Large CNC Router Table - or Not?
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2018, 08:22:25 AM »
        This is a muddy water issue for me. There are many issues related to implementation of the hardware side of things. I have been recently been party to a brand new 30,000 dollar cammaster router which runs WINCNC which comes Turn Key,  drop it on floor level it  hook it up (i did the hooking up)  and it runs. it seems that all the bugs have been worked out of the machine. I think that most of problems with mach3/4 at this point are actually implementation (hardware)  issues.  I Feel these new  hardware and software systems are standing on the shoulders of The Mach product.  At first glance WinCnc looks like a re-skinned version of mach. I am pretty sure it is not but on the surface they do. I have a friend who is ditching his mach3 setup for this http://www.centroidcnc.com/centroid_diy/acorn_cnc_controller.html  He Is using this on his mechmate 4X8 router I am very curious to see how this turns out  This will give a side by side comparison.   His brother is running a bladreunner (linux) system on his plasma machine.

I am currently dong the groundwork for Mach installation on 3 machines so this is a hot topic for me    I am  Looking very hard at the CNC-TEKNIC servo motors for all 3 (the CAMMASTER router uses these with belt drives)

Happy Hunting
archie
Facebook archies machine
Re: Mach3 for Large CNC Router Table - or Not?
« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2018, 02:07:15 PM »
Is anyone using Mach3/4 for serious machine control?


 I am seeing large 4x8 foot router tables with prices exceeding $20,000 and wondering what control system they are using and if one that used Mach3/4 could ever be considered? 

So bottom line I have a US Vendor who I have purchased CNC and laser machines from in the past based in Chicago who has a Chinese 48x48  CNC Router which looks very good, with ball screw on the Z and rack and pinion on the rest, automatic oilers and Ethernet controller. Water cooled 3 Hp spindle with VFD, I have the 1 Hp model now and its great.   With Mach 3  or as an option that Acorn controller.  Price is less than 1/2 of others on the market I have looked at as CAMaster  and two of those others are Chinese made Re-Branded very popular makes. My question is if I have issues with the Mach 3, and the rest of them machine is good a control change out to WinCNC is something I could handle. 
So can Mach 3 handle a router without issues?  From what I have read here it can, but Tool changers and the rest not so much.
Retired Master Electrician, Commercial HVAC/R Service and lots of Hobbys.
Re: Mach3 for Large CNC Router Table - or Not?
« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2018, 03:34:35 PM »
Hi,
Mach3 is fully capable of controlling a router. It is true that you will have to write some custom code for your particular machine for ATC.
Note that all development ceased on Mach3 five years ago and while it remains popular and used by many Mach4 is recommended for new projects.
Mach4 is fully capable but will likewise require some coding to enact your specific ATC requirements.

Craig
My wife left with my best friend...
     and I miss him!

Offline ger21

*
  • *
  •  6,289 6,289
    • View Profile
    • The CNC Woodworker
Re: Mach3 for Large CNC Router Table - or Not?
« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2018, 05:52:33 PM »
Quote
So can Mach 3 handle a router without issues?  From what I have read here it can, but Tool changers and the rest not so much.

Tool changes and other stuff is the easy part.
Big routers run at high speeds, and Mach3's biggest weakness is it's trajectory planner. If you want to cut in the 600+ ipm range, you either need a very powerful, very rigid machine, or you'll run into issues with corner rounding, or the machine stopping at corners to prevent rounding.

Having said that, there are probably thousands, if not tens of thousands of big routers running Mach3.

This is not really the place to discuss Mach3's competitors.
Gerry

2010 Screenset
http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

JointCAM Dovetail and Box Joint software
http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html
Re: Mach3 for Large CNC Router Table - or Not?
« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2018, 08:22:00 PM »
Hi ger21,
I understand that Mach3 uses a fairly simple trapezoidal trajectory planner which results in significant 'jerk' at the transition points.
I recall that there was considerable discussion some years ago about introducing a third order planner for Mach4. I did not pay a great deal of attention
at the time.

I have subsequently migrated to Mach4 and like it. There are no extra or unexplained settings that make me think that a third order planner was ever implemented.
Are you at all familiar with the history of Mach4's development...did in fact a third order planner get implemented or if not was there any discussion/reasoning why not?

Craig
My wife left with my best friend...
     and I miss him!

Offline ger21

*
  • *
  •  6,289 6,289
    • View Profile
    • The CNC Woodworker
Re: Mach3 for Large CNC Router Table - or Not?
« Reply #17 on: June 23, 2018, 09:35:25 PM »
When Mach4 was first released, I had asked about it, and was told it would be about a year after Mach4 was finished.
I don't really follow Mach4 development, but I wouldn't expect to see it for at least a few more years now.

To be fair, I don't think any of the competition have it either, but most have more control over the path deviation.
Gerry

2010 Screenset
http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

JointCAM Dovetail and Box Joint software
http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html
Re: Mach3 for Large CNC Router Table - or Not?
« Reply #18 on: June 23, 2018, 10:06:27 PM »
Hi ger21,
thanks for your reply.

Quote
but I wouldn't expect to see it for at least a few more years now.
Mach4 does not to my knowledge have a third order planner despite the early discussion. I imagined that such an absolutely basic piece of Mach could not be replaced
without destroying Mach4....but given the modular nature of Mach4 perhaps its not the case.

Quote
but most have more control over the path deviation

I have seen a couple of threads which deal with path deviation verses Constant Velocity settings. To be honest I did not really invest the mental effort to follow it.
I did have occasion to skim read a couple of academic papers on the Net that were concerned with path deviation. The maths was frightening.....but then I have done
that sort of stuff before...its usually a matter of mental application rather than genius or lack thereof.

Do you have any recommendations of software solutions that I might view to see first hand how others have handled path deviation?

Craig
My wife left with my best friend...
     and I miss him!

Offline ger21

*
  • *
  •  6,289 6,289
    • View Profile
    • The CNC Woodworker
Re: Mach3 for Large CNC Router Table - or Not?
« Reply #19 on: June 23, 2018, 10:49:11 PM »
Quote
path deviation verses Constant Velocity settings

Path deviation settings basically are constant velocity settings.
The difference is that Mach (3 & 4) let you control (to some extent) when and how much corner rounding will occur, but other software lets you control how far the path will deviate from the commanded path. I think they all have different ways of dealing with it, depending on what the developer thinks is best.

It's not just path deviation, though. It also has to do with blending short straight segments, like you see in 3D carving, or when cutting 2D shapes that were splines at one point.

I don't know if any low cost controls have S-Curve acceleration, expect for the Tiny G. https://github.com/synthetos/TinyG/wiki/Jerk-Controlled-Motion-Explained

I used to use the Tempest version of Mach3 that had it, and it can make a world of difference on a big router. All the big machines used in the woodworking industry have it. You need very smooth motion at 2000+ ipm, if you don't want the machine to tear itself apart.
Gerry

2010 Screenset
http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

JointCAM Dovetail and Box Joint software
http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html