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3-Axis Lathe screensetup with Y-Axis - Mill/Turn Function
« on: October 20, 2017, 05:28:59 PM »
Hello,
I need new features and extensions for my milling machine to convert them temporarily into a turning machine.
My machine is a 4-axis milling machine. I am using the screen from Wolfram Szentiks, I copied and changed it. Because it is protected by password.
Therefore, I would not be able to provide it here. What is important is the functions behind the screen.
The A-axis is to be expanded in the next months by a 750W servo-spindle an a tailstock.

With the spindle, however, it is also possible to use the milling machine as a lathe with XYZ axis.
We are already on the topic.

Now I want to have a screen, where I can switch between milling and lathe operation.
To make it easy for me and Mach3, I would like to switch between the two modes. I found the function OEMCode131. But I can not find out what funtcion this OEM exactly does.

I use the 1024.lset screen set an modifid it with my established Bitmaps.
I've also managed to add the Y axis. (I'm a beginner) But there are already matching screens and tips.
http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,13548.40.html
http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,34609.0.html
Of course I looked at this and I came across some problems.

Let's start with Problem 1: Setting the tools
Mach 3 lathe setup still supports only X, Z axis! You can add the Y axis, but it is not fully supported.
To set the tool offset, the function for X and z is for example: "Turn mode tool touch off X axis"/ DRO324. (=>Tool Table)
For Y the function is missing!
I have not found a description what the function DRO324 does in the background. Its a generel Problem for me.
I have written a VB script to calculate the offset. I can also show the value on the display and calculate it for the Part Zero display and store it in the tool table. Unfortunately, the Y value is missing in the table. I have therefore used the Turret Angle abused. It is also stored for every tool in a right way.
Only the workpiece position in the display is changed for all tools! >:(
If you then select another tool, the Y value remains the same.
This has two causes.
- Only the angle is read out.
- The offset is not calculate only by changing the Toolnumber.

Here is the test skript for the y offset:

Quote

Sub main ()
               
'Werkzeugversatz Y
GetOEMDRO(824) ''Werkzeugnummer/Tool number
GetOEMDRO(801) 'Y Werkstückkoordinate  /Part coordinate
Y = GetOEMDRO(801)
'MsgBox "toolnummer direkt aus variable 24: " & GetOEMDRO(824) 'Test
MsgBox "y wert aus anzeige : " & y    'Test

'//// Werkzeugkoordinate errechnenen und in Tool-Setup speichern
YWst=GetOEMDRO(801)  'Werkstückkoordinate /Part coordinate
MsgBox "ywst: " &  YWst
YWK=GetOEMDRO(1016) 'Y REfernezwerkzeug /refernz tool
MsgBox "ywk refernezwerkzeug: " &  YWk                   'Test
Y=YWst-YWK               'Y-Offset
MsgBox "delta y: " &  Y                        'test

'SetOEMDRO(48,Y) 'tool koordinate Y          ' Turret Angle     
SetOEMDRO(801,YWK)                'Y-Display- Part coordinate
MsgBox "y koordinate belegt " & getOEMDRO(801)   'Test

'SetOEMDRO(112,Y)        'it doesn't work!!!!

'ToolTable

TN=GetOEMDRO(824) 'toolnummer auf herunterziehen und um 1 verringern() /read toolnumber
TN=TN-1                      'i do not know wy, but it works!
settoolparam(tn, 7, y)             'Turret Angle (=7) 
MsgBox "WERKZEUGVERSATZ Y " & y      'Test
   
end sub

So it does not work properly.
It is possible to calculate the current position at each tool change. The coordinates of the referenz tool are indeed present (1016). But this is very cumbersome. In addition, the script must be started, when entering the tool number. DRO with hidden button does it work?

Does anyone have other ideas?

I can not believe that there is no need for 3-axis applications. Modern machines are often equipped with Y axis or driven tools.

Dirk

Offline RICH

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Re: 3-Axis Lathe screensetup with Y-Axis - Mill/Turn Function
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2017, 08:11:24 AM »
A few comments on your post:

- The generic lathe screen set is what it is and has been around for a "very" long time.
   The screen is functionality limited to X and Z axis.

- So you made a custom screen based on Wolfram Szentiks. Haven't the foggiest idea
  about that screen nor where to find it in an English version and what versions of Mach3  
  it was created for. Then you modified the screen more by adding the Y axis.

  So your current screen is some combination of whatever and no one can help much
  to address  any questions on it without posting the screen and everything ie; macros, etc
  associated with it.

- As you know there are differences in the tool table between the lathe and mill because
  of the geometry of the tools and how they are used. I have never seen  of a combination tool table.
  
-  You may want to search this forum for using the mill as a lathe. There are threads or postings
   but I have not followed it closely over the years.

You need to define how you want to use the mill as a lathe. Basicaly in Mach3, because of axis limitations,  you have a lathe or mill mode and work arounds are required.

Relative to a tool table  try / think about the following possibility:

- Use Master tool concept such that the tool offsets are based on the master tool, which has no
   offsets, and all the others are related to it. Be in /  use  Machine Coordinates for populating the       tool table  offset values and do the same for the Y axis. For the Y axis tools, description identifies    that it's for y axis and offsets  are for the X and Z. May need to swap axis for the Y.  If done that       way axis DRO's will change  and show correctly depending on current selected  coordinate    system.  

 As far as driven tools i use live tooling, sometimes on the lathe, and they are mounted on the
carriage.

I repeat that you need to define how you want to use the mill for ding lathe work.

So much for my nickle on the matter,

BTW, maybe look into using  MACH4 instead of Mach3.

RICH
Re: 3-Axis Lathe screensetup with Y-Axis - Mill/Turn Function
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2017, 11:40:47 AM »
Hallo Rich,
thanks for the answer.

A few comments on your post:

- The generic lathe screen set is what it is and has been around for a "very" long time.
   The screen is functionality limited to X and Z axis.

The lathe screen works perfectly for a lathe with xz axis! Many functions are very special for the lathe. This may explain why I wanted to use these possibilities for lathe mode.


- So you made a custom screen based on Wolfram Szentiks. Haven't the foggiest idea
  about that screen nor where to find it in an English version and what versions of Mach3 
  it was created for. Then you modified the screen more by adding the Y axis.

  So your current screen is some combination of whatever and no one can help much
  to address  any questions on it without posting the screen and everything ie; macros, etc
  associated with it.

Then let's forget the screen of Wolfram Szentiks. It is a German screenset.  
Except for the optics it is simply the 1014.lset with its macros.

My custom screen for setup:


- As you know there are differences in the tool table between the lathe and mill because
  of the geometry of the tools and how they are used. I have never seen  of a combination tool table.

I know, I did a few experiments. The tool tables are different. When milling, four 4 variables can be assigned. When turning, it is 7.
If you switch between lathe and milling mode (DRO131), the tables are nevertheless assigned the appropriate parameters.
It seems, however, that the tables are not neatly separated and have a common base.
This is a advantage or a disadvantage, as one wants to see it. You can act accordingly, so it is no problem.

 
-  You may want to search this forum for using the mill as a lathe. There are threads or postings
   but I have not followed it closely over the years.

I read many of the posts. But mostly it was about to work in the milling spindle. I do that sometimes, but it ist not comfortable. That's why I want to do it right now.

 
You need to define how you want to use the mill as a lathe. Basicaly in Mach3, because of axis limitations,  you have a lathe or mill mode and work arounds are required.

I am aware of the limitations and the work arounds.
Therefore the separation in the lathe mode and milling mode. Some processing centers like the WFL also work like this.
Here is the definition how I thought the structure:
The turning spindle is mounted on the table during the turning operation. This corresponds to the A-axis in mill mode.
The X axis is the Z axis of the milling machine. Tool holder is mounted on the milling head.
The tool offset is set with the Y axis. (For an XZ lathe, adjust it with shimes, etc.)
In principle, the coordinate system is only rotated by 90 °.
How I deal with, I can not say at the moment.
Swap Axis can swap only one axis. The easiest would be to use an Ardoinoboard. So that all axles can be manipulated as required and adapted to the machine geometry. I think this will be the simple way.
Milling Mode as usual as 4-Axis Mill.
It may be possible that you only need to switch between the A axis and the rotary spindle. There are enough examples postet.

 
Relative to a tool table  try / think about the following possibility:

- Use Master tool concept such that the tool offsets are based on the master tool, which has no
   offsets, and all the others are related to it. Be in /  use  Machine Coordinates for populating the       tool table  offset values and do the same for the Y axis. For the Y axis tools, description identifies    that it's for y axis and offsets  are for the X and Z. May need to swap axis for the Y.  If done that       way axis DRO's will change  and show correctly depending on current selected  coordinate    system.   

 As far as driven tools i use live tooling, sometimes on the lathe, and they are mounted on the
carriage.

I repeat that you need to define how you want to use the mill for ding lathe work.

So much for my nickle on the matter,

BTW, maybe look into using  MACH4 instead of Mach3.

RICH

Mastertoll concept is the method I use. As I wrote, the problem is that in the lathe mode the Y value is not used. So far, I have always written the Y-Offset and handled by hand.
G52 offest is also a possibility. But it is not particularly handy.

Mach 4 is not yet an option, but i must show if an improvement is possible.

Thanks
Dirk
Re: 3-Axis Lathe screensetup with Y-Axis - Mill/Turn Function
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2017, 01:24:38 PM »
I am interested in what you are doing because I have a lathe bed, spindle, and tailstock mounted to my mill bed making the Z axis the X and the X axis is lathe Z. The Y of course is then tool height offset.

Haven’t played much with this yet. If a G0 Y1 in the code does the Y axis move? So can Y movements be added to the G-code after a tool change?
Re: 3-Axis Lathe screensetup with Y-Axis - Mill/Turn Function
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2017, 03:31:55 PM »
I am interested in what you are doing because I have a lathe bed, spindle, and tailstock mounted to my mill bed making the Z axis the X and the X axis is lathe Z. The Y of course is then tool height offset.

Haven’t played much with this yet. If a G0 Y1 in the code does the Y axis move? So can Y movements be added to the G-code after a tool change?

Hello,
it depends on the axis setting. If the axis are defined in Mach 3, the G code can also access the axes. If an axis movement in Y or A is entered in my CNC program, it is executed. Whether the axis is displayed in the screen set.

I researched the whole afternoon today. Obviously others were already facing these challenges. More important, there are solutions.
Calypso Ventures has a screen set for turning on a milling machine and supports the tool setting with Y-offset. The problem with the missing Y offset in the tooltable is resolved as I thought it, only just a bit more comfortable. 

I also create a mastertool process. With a script, I can now read and display the correct Y offset for each tool. However I can not change the offset by changing the tool number. Mach can not support this in lathe mode. The value is only changed by pressing a Button or M6-Code script. The use of a transparent image button doesn't work!  ??? 

So I have to update my mach 3 and try the calypso screen. The $ 70 I believe is well laid out.
Calypso still needs two profiles, which is not what I wanted. But there is a way in the right direction, with new possibilities an funktions (#Expand).
With the #expand function you can presumably check the change of the tool number and have a corresponding function executed.

briefly a look at the part of the Layout:

"T" button performs the refresh for the Y offset.
"Null" sets the reference tool and saves it to an intermediate result.
For people like me, it blocked the further input.
"X" shows whether the reference tool is locked.
I will post my running script later.

 
Dirk
Re: 3-Axis Lathe screensetup with Y-Axis - Mill/Turn Function
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2017, 03:50:38 PM »
Hallo,
here are the Button macros for (Y-) Offset handling:

"T" Mt01l.m1s (Refersh) A small help construction
"Y-Touch" myt01l.m1s  (Calculation Y-Offset)
"null"  moff01l.m1s (store Offset) 

Offset Referenztool:



Programming is not my business. I still have to work on the structure of my programs. But it works on my sreen well.
Problem 1 for the time being satisfactorily solved.

Dirk