Author Topic: MIKRON WF3 retrofit HICON or CSMIO  (Read 4746 times)

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Offline slovenec

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MIKRON WF3 retrofit HICON or CSMIO
« on: January 02, 2016, 10:43:27 AM »
Greetings to y'all

I decided to retrofit my MIKRON WF3 and now I am searching for the best options.
For the mach3 motion card I am deciding between these two:
HICON INTEGRA and CSMIO/IP-S – 6 ( pleas comment if you have some experience with this two controllers)
There is still an issue to choose the right servo system for my application. At the attachment you can see the parameters of the old motors. How strong servomotors do i need for such a machine? What is the quality of the motors that are offered at the CSMIO site?
If someone is reading this topic and has experience about servo systems what do you recommend? Do I need a servo break on the Z axis?

Happy new year and best regards

Slovenc ;D

Offline Hood

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Re: MIKRON WF3 retrofit HICON or CSMIO
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2016, 01:20:18 PM »
Are the existing servo drives and motors dead?

If not then I would look at the CSMIO/IP-A or the DSPMC, assuming of course they are +/- 10v command.

I have no experience of the DSPMC but I do with the 3 CS-Lab controllers. They are all excellent but the IP-A has some advantages over the IP-S.

Hood

Offline slovenec

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Re: MIKRON WF3 retrofit HICON or CSMIO
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2016, 02:03:16 PM »
Thanks for the answer.
The motors are still working but i don’t have a god felling about them. One makes squeaky noises and he is constantly repairing the position for 0.05mm with an annoying sound Do you think that is normal? Therefore i decided to make a retrofit. Do you know how could I choose the right motors? I have also contacted the official sales of the CSMIO.

Regards

Slovenc

Offline Hood

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Re: MIKRON WF3 retrofit HICON or CSMIO
« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2016, 02:14:41 PM »
Could just be tuning required for the motor hunting.

If going for new motors/drives then best bet is just to go for similar specs to the ones fitted now.

If they are older DC servos then they will likely be slower than modern AC Servos so you may be able to get ones with a lower torque rating and gear it via pulleys to get the same RPM and Torque.

I would still recommend getting drives capable of accepting analogue commands and go the CSMIO/IP-A or DSPMC route rather than Step/Dir.

Hood

Offline slovenec

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Re: MIKRON WF3 retrofit HICON or CSMIO
« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2016, 02:41:32 PM »
Can I ask is there a reason that you prefer the analog commands?
Yes this are some old DC servo motors I could not figure out the torque of the motors. I attached the specifications that are written on the motors if you would take a look.
Is there anything wrong if I would take a little faster motors with higher torque? Or if I take AC servos instead DC? How is it with the accuracy when using pulleys?

Hood sorry for so many questions ;)
Thanks for sharing your knowledge!

Regards
https://www.dropbox.com/s/7tmu3793lk9rzf1/motor.JPG?dl=0
« Last Edit: January 02, 2016, 02:46:35 PM by slovenec »

Offline Hood

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Re: MIKRON WF3 retrofit HICON or CSMIO
« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2016, 04:59:46 PM »
The continuous torque is 3ft/lb so approx 4Nm.

You really want to keep the torque about the same or more than you have now as I would imagine the manufacturer sized the motors accordingly. Having said that I have seen some massively over sized motors on older machines.

You could get smaller motors with more RPM and gear them so that the Torque increases, whether you would manage that would depend on whether there is room on the machine to gear accordingly.

I like the CSMIO/IP-A better than the IP-S because the DROs in Mach get updated from the feedback to the CSMIO/IP-A from the motors encoders, so Mach always has the correct position.

If using the IP-S then you are just reading where Mach thinks the axis is.  In reality that should be the position or very close if the servo drive is tuned correctly and has a small fault value set.

However with the IP-A you are always sure, also after an E-Stop or even winding an axis by hand, Mach knows where the axis actually is.
The major benefit to me however is, as long as the drives logic side is enabled, then the encoders data will update Machs DROs, so you will not have to home the machine each time you disable/enable the servo drive.
So for example you disable a drive, the axis will move slightly due to gravity, belt tension or whatever, how much it will move will depend on the forces acting on it. A Z axis could move quite a bit until the brake catches it. When using the IP-S you would have to re-home before using but with the IP-A Mach has seen that movement so you just need to enable and away you go.


Hood

Offline slovenec

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Re: MIKRON WF3 retrofit HICON or CSMIO
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2016, 05:32:53 AM »
Hey thanks for the answer I will take this into account. I searched a little about the servo system and found the DELTA servo systems with 3000 RPM and 4Nm torque. At work we often use this brand.
Do you have a favorite brand? 

Hood thanks a lot !:D

Offline Hood

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Re: MIKRON WF3 retrofit HICON or CSMIO
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2016, 05:41:57 AM »
I use drives I have picked up on eBay.
The ones I have used are
Allen Bradley DDM    (spindle on small lathe)
Allen Bradley DSD    (Spindle and axes on big lathe, spindle and axes on Beaver mill, X axis on wee lathe and Spindle on Chiron)
Telemecanique Lexium 05 ( Axes on Chiron)
Samsung CSDJ Plus (Z axis on wee lathe)

All of the above drives can be set to Step/Dir or Analogue command, the only ones I have set to Analogue are the ones on the Chiron but that is because it is the only machine I have with a controller (IP-A) that can accept +/- 10v.

Hood

Offline slovenec

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Re: MIKRON WF3 retrofit HICON or CSMIO
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2016, 05:12:30 AM »
Greetings Hood,

I have a question or maybe a few ;).
I have decided that I try to use the old motors on my CNC (due to lack of money)
Now its a challenge to figure out which cable is for driving the motors and if it uses +/- 10 V, and what is the type of driver that I have. Do you have any experience with this driver (see attachment ). Yesterday I have bought the +/-10V card from cs lab.

Have a great 2016

best regards

Rok

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/4yh9wlognli9jng/AADvwFiNXdNbUl0QVMW-oOmxa?dl=0

Offline danilom

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Re: MIKRON WF3 retrofit HICON or CSMIO
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2016, 06:29:55 PM »
I think that for the cheap route you should have gone with cncdrive dc servo drives DG4S-16035 and unwound the transfomer get acceptable voltage for them (160V)
this way it may be somewhat better, but it will take you more time to figure all out and if one drive goes bad how will you find the replacement.

Only inputs that look like +/-10V input to the drives are pins 1 & 2 on each axis X11 X21 X31 (but they have a + and - printed on the acrylic so I may be wrong) , fire up the old control and check with the multimeter what it shows?
If the drives are all plugged in to some kind of motherboard then you should look there, cant see really from the pictures.

p.s. I just finished one Biesse with IP/A and its really easy to wire it and set it up if you have original schematics