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Author Topic: Matsuura MC500v retrofit with CSMIP/IP-A  (Read 26466 times)

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Matsuura MC500v retrofit with CSMIP/IP-A
« on: December 29, 2014, 11:53:50 AM »
Hello there guys,

      Just like the title says, I'm working on a Matsuura retrofit that I'm pretty excited about. The machine is a 1979 Mc500v. The motion controller is a CSMIP/ip-a and an Automation DL06 will be running the tool changer. At this point, I'm well on the way to having the PLC programmed. I also finished ironing out the M6 macro last night.

     I could definitely use your guys' help with the ethernet controller integration though. When I initially concocted the retrofit, I planned on using a digital encoder and swapping out the servos. However, after reading about Hood's success with the analog version, I took the leap and bought the IP-A in the hopes that I could simply wire it to my existing yaskawa drives.

     I contacted Yaskawa hoping to obtain electrical prints for my servopacks. After bouncing from one department to the next, I was finally told by a Tech that all schematics are proprietary (never mind that they have other servopac prints available for download on their website ). It was suggested that I contact matsuura and obtain electrical prints for the machine. While Matsuura USA is more than willing to share their prints, they have been unable to locate the schematics for my machine. So my first question is, does anyone out there in Mach land have schematics for Yaskawa CPCR- MR 052 NB servo drives?

     As a side note, the DL06 is a pretty cool device! I highly recommend them for anyone implementing a tool changer.

Jonathon

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Re: Matsuura MC500v retrofit with CSMIP/IP-A
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2014, 05:07:37 AM »
Have you looked at the standard CPCR- MR 052 manual? It may not be much different from the drives you have, I know some drives I had that were OEM for someone else were identical to the standard drives except for the numbering.

Hood
Re: Matsuura MC500v retrofit with CSMIP/IP-A
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2014, 11:15:33 PM »
Hood,
 You're just the guy I hoped would respond! I've read quite a few of your posts. Thanks for your response!
I haven't been able to find a manual for the cpcr mr 52, but I have found a cpcr mr 01C - 07c. ALso, Foothills Machinery out of Denver contacted me today to let me know they found electrical schematics for the mc500v. I'll be honest, I don't have the background to fully understand these wiring diagrams. There are a few things I can pick up, but I need to learn a bit more before I can figure out where to wire step and direction inputs and encoder outputs. In the attached image bellow, the wires are there and numbered, but not labeled in great detail. I'm assuming PC stands for pulse counter. As for T.G. stands for, not really sure. Also, the diagram depicts connections between the 3000g controller and X,Y and Z axis motors. I hope they mean X,Y and Z servopacks, because the controller will wire up to the servopacks alone. (step, dir and encoders).

 This retrofit i my first experience with servo controlled systems, so If I am missing something, feel free to mention it. Thanks!
Re: Matsuura MC500v retrofit with CSMIP/IP-A
« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2014, 03:39:49 AM »
oops! I attached the wrong portion of the wiring diagram. Please see the attachment bellow for wiring of the servo motors. Thanks!

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Re: Matsuura MC500v retrofit with CSMIP/IP-A
« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2014, 05:18:52 AM »
First thing is you do not have Step/Dir inputs on the drives, they will be analogue +/-10v, that is why you will need to use an IP-A controller.

The TG will be Tacho Generator, basically a means of the drive knowing the rotational speed of the motor and will be integral to the motor and will come out on two wires.

In the above drawing it looks like you have an encoder also on the motor, the B A C D E F wires, can you find them in the cabinet as they likely go to the drive and could well be Encoder signals. I would assume C and D are the power to the encoder and A and B are the A and B channels of the encoder but not sure about E and F. If there had been another wire I would have said it was hall signals, maybe the manual will shed some more light on it.



This seems to be the standard drives manual
http://www1.yaskawa.com/site/dmservo.nsf/link2/TKUR-5EJQ5Z/$file/TSE-C717-13E.pdf

I have not had a chance to look at it yet.

Hood
Re: Matsuura MC500v retrofit with CSMIP/IP-A
« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2014, 06:00:43 PM »
Thanks for clearing that up, Hood.

 I was looking at pages 2 and 4 of the manual. The servopak wiring looks fairly simple. But I was under the impression that most servo drive to servo connections included the encoder feedback. Is that not typically the case? From the look of the diagram on page 4, the encoders are not connected to the servo drive.  Once again though, reading electrical diagrams is not my forte.

Something else that caught my eye is that reverence input is rated from 4 to 50V. I suspect that the reference input is the analog voltage signal you referred to in your last response. If the servopaks truly require such a range, I'm thinking I might have to start looking for replacement drives. I remember reading another post in which you mentioned the brand AMC drives.

Another question; I know that CS labs sells an mpg module, but I'd like to use the original mpg in the yasnak control panel. I haven't done the research to know for sure, but I am almost certain that I can wire in the module through the discrete inputs on the ip-a. However, I also have a DL06 connected to mach3 via modbus tcp via ecom module and I'm wondering i there would be any advantage to running the mpg through the plc. Scott, AKA 'Poppabear' described the ecom module as blazing fast so I'm wondering what would be faster, digital inputs though the ip-a or inputs via the plc? This will also determine where the tool touch probe is wired.

Jonathon

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Re: Matsuura MC500v retrofit with CSMIP/IP-A
« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2015, 04:53:52 AM »
Ok just realised these are DC servos (brushed), so no need for commutation. So all you will have going from the motor to the drive will be the Tach and the thermo switch (if it has one) and of course the A and B power wires for the motor.

If there is an encoder on the motor (rather than a resolver) then you should be fine.

Regarding the 4-50v you mentioned, I think that will just be the range that can be set ie 0-4v up to 0-50v.
I notice it also mentions differential of 4-10v, I think that is the one you will likely use and have it set to 10v so you will have a range of +/- 10v. I would need to see your drawings to be sure though.

In the drawing you attached above it does look like there is an encoder, going through from top to bottom I would say the connections are.
A and B  are your main power wires for the motor, they will be from the drive.
H and G are your Tacho, they to will go to the drive.
B, A and C are your encoder signals (A, B and Index) and D is the 0v reference for them, its a single ended encoder rather than differential. These will go to IP-A
E and F are the power wires for the Encoder. These will come from IP-A

You will have to check the encoder is 5v square wave, it almost certainly is but best to try and confirm first.

Hood

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Re: Matsuura MC500v retrofit with CSMIP/IP-A
« Reply #7 on: January 01, 2015, 05:21:13 AM »
Oh regarding the MPG, personally I would use the MPG module, you will get much better motion from the MPG if you let the IP-A control it.
If you use the normal Inputs or a PLC then it will be Mach itself controlling the motion via MPG and it will not be as nice or accurate.

Regarding the probe, you will probably be best to do it via the IP-A  and use their macro, that way it is all hardware as the IP-A will do the probing rather than have to go via Mach. You may however have to alter their macro depending on what you want to do, I dont use it and have not looked, so not exactly sure what it is set up to do.

If however you have collet holders etc for tooling then maybe it would be an idea to use a setup similar to what I use. I have a height setter consisting of a linear scale and it is hooked into the Enc module and goes into Mach, I can then place a tool into the setter and then press a button in Mach and it will automatically set up the tool table to the correct height offset, below is a pic of the setter.
Hood
« Last Edit: January 01, 2015, 05:23:12 AM by Hood »
Re: Matsuura MC500v retrofit with CSMIP/IP-A
« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2015, 12:05:01 AM »
Hood,

   That tool setter looks pretty impressive. Nice work! I like your brushed stainless switches. I just ordered a boatload of switches and a pair of joysticks from Automation Direct. The first machine i retrofitted I ran solely off the keyboard and mouse and I can tell you it gets old.

    I made it to the shop tonight and started gutting the machine. For some reason, on projects like these, I plan to precisely excise only the components and wiring I know I won't need, but I end up getting carried away. And tonight, I got carried away! There is little left of the original machine innards and wiring, Limit switches, encoder signals, transformers, power wiring, wiring to the drives and the drives themselves. The rest is piled on benches beside the machine.

    This brings me to tonight's question: Is it really worth it to salvage the original drives? If I were to upgrade to new drives like Advanced Motion Control Drives, what could I expect to pay? I would have called AMC myself today but being that today is a holiday I didn't even bother. I'm sure they were closed.

    Per the encoder wiring, I have attached a picture of the encoder ID plate on the outside of the motor. On the wiring diagram there are 9 connections and I'm assuming that two of them are the tachometer. Since it is a single ended encoder, D will be the common ground for each channel.  Connections labeled E and F I'm assuming are the power connections. Not sure about the other connections though.

Jonathon

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Re: Matsuura MC500v retrofit with CSMIP/IP-A
« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2015, 07:13:40 AM »
The encoder will be as I mentioned above, ie it is the A B and Index pulses.
One thing that concerns me however is it takes 12v power, that may mean that it outputs 12v square wave. That is no use for the IP-A, it requires 5v. Likely you could make a small circuit to convert the 12v to 5v but best check it out with a scope to see if it is the case.

As for AMC drives, afraid I dont have a clue, I have never bought any.


Hood