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Offline LGF

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My Build EVO v1.I
« on: September 05, 2014, 04:40:16 AM »
Hi All

Just wanna show and tell a bit (mostly tell for now, pic's to follow soon).

For several years now, I had the need for a CNC machine. I make fishing lures for an OBSESSION, was a hobby a very long time ago. This was due to the molds that I could import, well they weren't exactly the shapes and sizes I wanted, so I had to settle for somebody else's designs. Hence the requirement.

I am completely new to CNC as such but have never been scared of trying and learning something new, so I ended up building my own machine, partly due to the fact that a commercial unit with the same dimentions costs roughly 5 times as much as I have spent on my build and my build includes a coolant system, a 4th (rotational) axis and is even placed in a soundproofing poly-carbonate cabinet.

@ first I struggled alot with getting help and info to understand the complexities of Mach, controlling hardware, software, functions, features etc etc etc.

Thanks to Tweakie.cnc and stirling, I can glady announce that as of last night 23:30 CAT, I have a operational 4 axis CNC machine titled EVO v1.I, EVO because it has and most likely will keep on evolving, v1, well version 1 and .I meaning it will be for infinite/infitity of alterations to the machine.

I intended to use a config of ModBus with Mach3, and Arduino 2560 Mega and four stepper drivers, where Mach would be the Master and the Arduino would be the ModBus-slave. At first I struggled imensly with getting the ModBus sketch to compile in the Arduino IDE. Once that was sorted, the next chalenge came in understanding the ModBus config with relation to the Master and Slave idea. I failed here, I still do not really understand it, BUT, "stirling" advised me to not consider ModBus for the time critical functions for Mach and to rather opt for the traditional LPT setup.

Although this meant that I had to obtain a "new" OLD desktop PC that actually had a parallel port, it was such a breeze after I did. Managed to get Mach working as intended on the desktop, configured the ports (wiring and config setup's) and in a matter of virtually two hours had the first actual Mach controlled movement of EVO's steppers. Thanks you so much for the nudge in the right direction stirling.

Although optional, stirling also advised me that it would probably be better to make use of a BOB if I didn't know what I was doing, that, the electronics I have no issues with, but I was so discouraged and, well, fed-up with the build that I went out and bought a BOB that is supposed to be Mach configured already. Works like a charm and was the easiest part of the entire biuld up and until now. Thanks again for the nudging!!

I had some issues last night, but sorted them out and they are listed here for ref should anybody else run into the same issues.

I had my X, Y and Z inverted with relation to dircetion: Solution, swoped the wires (polarity) on one of the two coils of these steppers.
The B axis (bolted to the far most + side of Y) kept on moving when I jogged Y: Solution, unchecked the "Slave" box in the Config setting relating to the slave settings.
One that still remains is the limit switches, I bought 6, 2 for each axis, but the BOB only has space for 5 inputs excl. the e-Stop and Spindle inputs. (thing of combining the X input leads inot one input, the Y leads the same and the same for Z) thus if any of the 2 switches per axis is activated, it will perform the required fucntion that I have written into my limit switch brain, still need to verify if this is actually a functional brain and if it will function correctly with my intention.

Another issue I still have to sort, again thanks to 'stirling' is the pitch of the threaded rods i am using which is M12X1.75, the 1.75 is really very slow and even with the steppers configured to run just below "selfdestruct", ROFL, not really, but at the max of their comfort zone, it is really bordering on rediculousness!!! So, I will have to replace these, at least on the X and Y, not so sure the "slow" speed (current MaxComfort setting) of the Z is actually an issue, it is rather ok, FOR Z!!

I still need to setup the following in Mach and the BOB obviously:

Spindle control (on, off, speed)
Flood control (on, off and flowrate)
Machine behaviour (end of process/job, return to home, shut down etc.)

Once this is done, I will need to mill the bed-surface and install a clamping system of sorts, still need to design one.Learn how to "fix" my 3D scans in some CAD/CAM software and the processes to follow to get valid G-code that I can load inot Mach.

Then the neighbour should move house, he won't like the constant buzzing sound that inevitably will prevail.

Updates to follow!!
When I die, will someone please dress up as the Grim Reaper and attend my funeral. No need to do or say anything, just attend and stand a short distance away? PLEASE???

Offline LGF

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Re: My Build EVO v1.I
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2014, 04:54:39 AM »
Happy to report that I did my first test cut last night and it was well, a learning experience.

Did a 21mm circular pocket cut that I posted through the Wizards and did a 3mm deep cut, all went well very well!
One thing thou, when I measured the final, i got the diameter of the pocket at 21.8mm all round (thus eliminating the possibility for backlash issues). I suspect that either my axis calibratiojn must be off by that .8mm or I did not remove the 1mm"clearance" from the wizard prior to posting the G-code.

Anyhow, one issue that still haunts the machine is the blocks that holds the backlash nuts in place. These I had to hand fabricate as engineering is rather silly expensive here and inherantly they are not perfect, so these will be the first things I have to cut and replace (perhaps a couple of times as the machine gets more aligned and less distorted on the one axis at least).


PS. The cut a circle wizard in Mach3 was quite funny as it was actually nothing more than a small square with rounded corners, anybody else had this issue?
When I die, will someone please dress up as the Grim Reaper and attend my funeral. No need to do or say anything, just attend and stand a short distance away? PLEASE???

Offline stirling

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Re: My Build EVO v1.I
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2014, 06:04:40 AM »
Hi again LGF. Good to see you're making good progress.

A note about your limits - I think I mentioned it before but you don't need a brain. Simply tie all your (NC - normally closed) switches in series and stick em into ONE input pin. Then when ANY axis hits a limit it'll stop - Mach doesn't care WHICH switch was hit - the result is the same - STOP. Homing will also work with all switches tied to just ONE pin. The only "down side" as opposed to using three pins is that each axis will home one at a time rather than concurrently.

Re: your circle wizard - do you mean the CODE was a square with rounded corners (unlikely) or that the actual cut looked like a square with rounded corners? If the latter then that definitely sounds like backlash.

Offline LGF

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Re: My Build EVO v1.I
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2014, 06:41:48 AM »
Hi Stirling

Thanx so much for the reply, yes I followed the advice some weeks ago, forgetting the brain which was a nightmare as I knew what I wanted to do but didn't know in which order it had to be done (specified in the brain). I combined the switches and have no issues with them. The homing switches are however seperate still and I do wonder if my connections are perhaps wrong as they do home and zero automatcially but they do this one axis at a time and the Y has an added glitch as it does not move off the switch once zero'd. not a train smash, just irritating. Another is when a limit switch (doesn't matter which one) was triggered, when I try and move the axis it does another e-stop with the pop-up that Mach has to automatically fix the "toggle" between the switch status, then i have to accept these changes and do another reset and then only can i move off the limit switch without triggering it again, also irritating but not a train smash.

As for the wizard circle cut (author is Kiran if I'm not mistaken), the actual cut was a perfect square (equal sides, length and angle wise) with identical rounded corners. but when I used the circular pocket wizard directly after that I got a perfectly shaped round circle, with the only issue that it was .8mm larger than what I specified. When I say perfect i mean that with several measurements in various angles in the circle there was no difference in diameter, nothing, nada, ziltz. so it was truely round just slightly oversized, this and the sqaure with rounded corners cut made me think that backlash is not the culprit but rather something else, like i mentioned, perhaps the ommiting of the clearance spec in the cut a circular pocket.

PS thinking about the code for the circle cut it seemed that it was intended (cannot think that it is correct to assume this) to cut in the square fashion it did as opposed to the circular pocket cut code which semmede to be very different (taking into consideration that the latter is cut in a spiral fashion as opposed to the prior which was just a boundry cut)


Lastly, what does one need to connect the spindle (industrial router) to mach in order for Mach to control the spindle on/off and speed? would it perhpas be a relay or some sort of variable resistor?
When I die, will someone please dress up as the Grim Reaper and attend my funeral. No need to do or say anything, just attend and stand a short distance away? PLEASE???

Offline stirling

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Re: My Build EVO v1.I
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2014, 07:43:51 AM »
To home simultaneously (where you use separate pins for each axis) you need to edit the "Ref All Home" button. Currently you'll have something like three separate DoButton() calls. Have a look at the "RefCombination" procedure call in the Mach3_V3.x_Macro_Prog_Ref.pdf at http://www.machsupport.com/help-learning/product-manuals

your "glitch" sounds like you have noise issues or dirty/bad switch(es).

Sorry but you've slightly lost me on your circle wizard issues.

Spindle control very much depends on what sort of router you have - i.e. more detail needed.

Offline LGF

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Re: My Build EVO v1.I
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2014, 07:59:45 AM »
Cool,thanx so much, will check the the pdf, now noe thing i noticed there is the word Macro, be ready to assist in kicking my B-Hind in the right dircetion when it comes to the programming part  ;D

As for th glitch, well perhaps the switches I got with bearings at the end were of poor quality, I do have sealed switches but these only have extended levers and come to think of it, the one that is currently part of the machine is working as it should.

The circle wizard thing:
I tried cutting a circle with Kirans "Cut Circle" and this produced the square with the rounded corners. Without touching any mechanical part of the machine i.e. lead screws, backlash nuts etc etc. I did a cut with the "Circular Pocket" wizard by Brian Barker. The latter gave me the perfectly rounded circle, albeit the diameter was .8mm larger than the intended 21mm. hope that helps in explaining this strange phenomenon?

The router is a Ryobi TR50 router, does 500W at 33000rpm (without load) weighs 1,3kg and is small enough to be used with one hand (the latter two mentioned properties was the reason for the aquisition) it runs on 220-240VAC. It currently has a manual switch and I have attached a current control unit to it with a potentiometer (pot) but it still remains a manual operation (with limited control width) and I would idealy love to have Mach controlling it.

PS Thanx so much for taking time to assist, you do not realise how greatful I am for that. Thanx a mill !
When I die, will someone please dress up as the Grim Reaper and attend my funeral. No need to do or say anything, just attend and stand a short distance away? PLEASE???

Offline stirling

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Re: My Build EVO v1.I
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2014, 01:39:06 PM »
Click on menu item "operator/edit button script" then click on the (flashing) Ref All Home button. You'll see the macro code for that button. To understand the numbers in the doButton calls see http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,6657.0.html Then read the above pdf with regard to the refcombination procedure call. All will become clear.

Can you post the gcode from the two wizards?

On/Off control of your router could be simply implemented with a suitable relay setup. A solid-state relay is (IMHO) the easiest way.

Current control is perhaps more of a challenge - I'm sure there are folks here who can advise you better but PWM control is a possible option for your setup.

Offline LGF

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Re: My Build EVO v1.I
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2014, 08:51:51 AM »
Thanx Stirling.

Sorry for the late reply, just had to deal with the passing of my father on the 8th of October, anyhow, thats done now, so it's full steam ahead and .... the icebergs!!!!


I've seen some photo-sensitive (forgot the actual name) that is found in printers etc etc, where the optical line gets broken by a tooth on a circle which is directly connected to teh spindle shaft, thus producing the true revs of a spindle, which I suppose would be required for some sort of current control to control the actual spindle speed? Do you think it's worth investigating?


PS. I have built a digitizing probe with a piezo-element but I am not sure at all where to configure it in Mach (if at all possible) to be used as a point cloud generator, which I could then turn into g-code to cut from stock again. Any thoughts?
When I die, will someone please dress up as the Grim Reaper and attend my funeral. No need to do or say anything, just attend and stand a short distance away? PLEASE???

Offline stirling

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Re: My Build EVO v1.I
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2014, 10:28:01 AM »
Hi LGF. My condolences to you on the passing of your Father.

Can I ask you to re-read this thread and take stock of where you are and where you want to be? We were dealing with homing and circle wizards but now you've jumped onto your spindle control and now probing. Maybe slow down a tad and do one thing at a time before moving on to the next.

Offline LGF

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Re: My Build EVO v1.I
« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2014, 03:50:17 PM »
Thanx Stirling

Yeah you're right, unfortunately my brain works (I'd like to think it does anyhow) much like a Multi-functional device, and that gets me all-over-the-place, constantly.

As for the homing issues, that is sorted, limit switches (Y+, X+ and Z-) are working just great, wasn't too sure about the config on the other ends where I only have the homing switches, so the latter are only used as homing switches, but that is fine, except for the once or twice where a manual move of these axis's pushed into the switches and broke them loose, learned to keep my eye on the movement of them since and have not made that mistake again, so I guess that it sorted, unless there is a config to set the homing switches as limit's as week without actually having to install separate switches for that?

As for the circle wizards, I have (I think) identified the issue, offsets! Why, well I drew a part that had a 7mm hole to be pocketed, I figured out after some dummy runs, cutting some pine, that if I drew the hole with a 1mm diameter, then using the 6mm endmill I got a 7mm hole. Similar was larger arcs and circles and even straight (parallel lines), everything seemed to be out by the diameter (perhaps just the radius x2, both sides cut) of the 6mm endmill. So if you can slap my head into the portion that would resolve that, it would be great.

Why am I moving on to other things, well I cannot sit still and as mentioned, already made myself a probe, also made two electronic tool setters, which works perfectly, very simple and very easy to make, and accurate to 0.0012 of a mm. Again as I cannot sit still for a moment, I installed a laser (still need to calibrate that thou) to be used a a center point (mill-bit center) indicator.

Will stop here, otherwise you'll be all-over-the-place trying to assist me.

PS: Thank you ever so much for the patience with helping a Ritalin case like me, lol, but serious on the Thank You part. It is appreciated much more than you know!
When I die, will someone please dress up as the Grim Reaper and attend my funeral. No need to do or say anything, just attend and stand a short distance away? PLEASE???