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Author Topic: Getting started, Re: First impressions of CS-Lab products  (Read 5871 times)

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Getting started, Re: First impressions of CS-Lab products
« on: March 08, 2013, 09:03:42 PM »
Hood, the lathe is equipped with SEM servos, which are 3 N-m, 2400 RPM, 140VDC (probably +/- 10VDC, but I am unsure at this time). Anyway, because everything moves smoothly I am quite tempted to try and keep them. However, new brushless servos would probably be smarter to do. Here are some photos of the servos.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2013, 10:00:31 AM by Chaoticone »

Offline Hood

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Re: First impressions of CS-Lab products
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2013, 05:00:12 AM »
I think, if the amplifiers are good, I  would keep them and use the analogue version of the CSMIO. (IP-A) Reason being they will already be set up and tuned.
That is what I am using on the Chiron I am currently doing, I have not got to the stage of actually using it yet as I still have a fair amount of mechanical and electrical work to do. I know one person who has the analogue version and he said it was easy to set up and runs well.
 The reason I went with the IP-A was I originally intended to use some old analogue drives I had, only problem with them was they would only accept certain motors and although I had these motors they were on another mill. I was going to swap motors over but I got a good deal on some other drives and motors so didnt need to. I will still be using the IP-A as the new drives I have are capable of analogue as well as setp/dir. I think if I ever do another machine then I will opt for the IP-A as nearly all AC Servo drives can accept analogue input where not all can accept Step/Dir.

I forgot to mention the MPG in the last post to you, you can get them lots of places but that particular one I got, I think, from Peter Homann (homanndesigns.com)

Hood
Re: First impressions of CS-Lab products
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2013, 10:43:31 AM »
So your idea is buy the analog version no matter what, eh? Absent a better idea I can go along with that! As for whether the amplifiers are good, or not, I suspect they are because the turret moves in the X and Y direction smoothly and quickly with no hesitations. The only difficulty is with the Anilam because getting parts is not impossible but they are outrageously priced by my standards (e.g. $600 for a used board because there are no new ones available, which means I can find myself in the same place soon again as whatever fail in my board soon fails in the replacement - I speak from experience).

As for a MPG/pendant, I purchased this MPG4 6-axis unit from CNC4PC a while back and while I have not used it yet, I am pleased with the industrial (read this as substantial) feel of the unit. Also, I don't have the exprience to judge the value of having an LCD readout on the pendant (per the Homann Designs pendant). Thoughts?

Finally, can you recommend a primer for a guy new to CNC conversions? Either in print or websites, which wouyld help guide me please? Frankly, I need something basic regarding things like servos and steppers, drivers, amplifiers and such, as well as basic like cabling, relays, switches, best practices, etc. Basically, a machine retrofit conversion guide. Does such a comprehensive document exist?

Offline Hood

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Re: First impressions of CS-Lab products
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2013, 03:03:11 PM »
Well thats the way I would go, use original motors and amps and if needed in the future you could upgrade them with AC or whatever. As mentioned almost all Industrial AC Servo drives accept +-10v analogue control so there is more chance of getting some at a good price compared to having to find step/dir capable ones.

I am not keen on hand held pendants, just my personal choice, I find having the buttons/MPG etc on the control panel much better. Maybe for something like a large router or plasma it would be handy but for a lathe or mill I dont see the need and it can get in the way I feel. That however is just a personal choice :)

Dont think I really know of any step by step tutorials really, it will all depend on the hardware you have and the hardware you use to connect to Mach. Best idea would be to look at the way the Anilam is connected and do similar. In fact you likely wouldnt have to do too much if using existing amps as most of the wiring for things like limits and E-Stops will just need connected to your controller of choice. The CSMIO with having 24v I/O makes it easy as almost certainly the Anilam will  be 24v I/O

Hood
Re: First impressions of CS-Lab products
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2013, 10:53:24 AM »
Hood, thanks for your time. I am preparing to order the following;

1. CSMIO/IP-A (analog version per your suggestion versus -S that finding drives in future with analog versus step/direction should be easy - otherwise, I was going to replace the motors/drives with news one but frankly, I would rather keep them because they work fine and are paid for)

2. CSMIO-MPG (for connecting the pendant)

3. CSMIO-ENC (for connecting to the existing encoder on the lathe's spindle)

4. CSMIO-IO (for connecting the turret - per an email from Wojtek, they have retrofitted a lathe with similar turret 'and' they have a VB macro for me)

Before I do however, do you have an opinion vice their upcoming Arbah DSP - AC Servon Motor Drive? I'm wondering if it would make life a lot easier to just bite the bullet now and use them to drive the existing servos (with a plan to replace these servos in future if/when the need arrises), e.g. would the retrofit would go easier with these drives, or should I leave well enough alone? Advice welcome.

Also, you mention these use DIN mounting rails. Where do I source these?

Offline Chaoticone

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Offline Hood

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Re: First impressions of CS-Lab products
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2013, 02:39:54 PM »
I would say if your drives are working well then keep them, they will already be tuned for your motors/lathe setup so the only tuning required would be in the CSMIO itself. It has auto tuning which works very well from the test I did the last day on my Chiron.

Hood
Re: First impressions of CS-Lab products
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2013, 08:09:46 AM »
Chaoticone - thanks for the DIN rail source.

Hood - so the tuning occurs in the drive, eh? There's so much I don't know! For example, is the term drive, or driver . . . or are they used interchangeably? Also, what about the power supply for same, is this something I should try to salvage from the Anilam case?

Speaking of the Anilam case, beside the main case on wheels, the lathe has several boxes mounted in which various components are wired (photos). I figured to try and re-use as many of these as possible - my thinking being - the crew at Anilam had forgotten more than I know about controlling a machine tool. Thus, because they probably did everything the right way (versus something I might inadvertantly Mickey Mouse together) I'd be wise to leave well enough alone as much as possible.

The thing is, while I am pretty good with things mechanical, I am weak with things electrical. I know it should be easy - but for me, for whatever reason - this isn't so straightforward. Anyway, all this by way of saying; I have the schematics for the lathe. If I post them, would you mind looking them over with an eye toward guiding me with respect to removing the Anilam brains and supbstituting the CS-Labs components?
Re: First impressions of CS-Lab products
« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2013, 08:15:58 AM »
I hit the four photo limit, here are the other four photos I wanted to post. I am thinking the smart place to do the surgery is within the Anilam cabinet itself. E.g. this is where I should mount the CS-Labs components, the PC . . . everything!

Finally, I am sorry for hijacking this thread. I will cease forthwith and start my own machine conversion thread. However, where should I do it, here in CS-Lab within Machsupport, or perhaps over at CNC Zone? Regardless, Hood, your first impressions of the CS-Lab components are enough to persuade me to make a purchase with them. They owe you a commision.

Cheers,
« Last Edit: March 21, 2013, 08:21:56 AM by jbeech »

Offline Hood

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Re: First impressions of CS-Lab products
« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2013, 08:50:11 AM »
Post the schematics and I will have a look later, will also have a roper look at the pics you posted and see what I think.

Drives, Drivers, Amps, Amplifiers are basically the same .
Hood