Author Topic: New IPS (Interactive Programming System) Professional Screen for Turn  (Read 72216 times)

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Offline Dan13

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Re: New IPS (Interactive Programming System) Professional Screen for Turn
« Reply #60 on: September 08, 2011, 04:17:07 AM »
Wes,

It would be nice if the tool list took into account the tool offset as well for the displayed too name. Something like Hood did:

http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,17093.msg116321.html#msg116321

But I don't know how to practically do this for all the combination possible. Instead I hope that in your Tool Setup DRO the displayed tool name is tied to the offset number and not the tool number.

By the way, I think that tool radius compensation doesn't work well in MachTurn. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Dan

Offline budman68

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Re: New IPS (Interactive Programming System) Professional Screen for Turn
« Reply #61 on: September 08, 2011, 05:05:04 AM »
Wes, just a note from a non-pro CNC lathe user. I know you're spending a lot of time on this (and it shows!), but making tutorial videos on how to utilize the features of this screenset would sell a LOT more of these. Especially to guys like myself who would benefit from all the "extras" in a screen set, but aren't sure how to go about using them.

Good luck to you-
Dave
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Offline DaOne

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Re: New IPS (Interactive Programming System) Professional Screen for Turn
« Reply #62 on: September 08, 2011, 03:23:26 PM »
I think I need to understand why this tool number vs offset issue is such a big topic? I think it might be due to how people are handling their turret macros. On just about any industrial machine I have ever used that has a tool changer or turret gives you a huge number of tool slots. Now this is how they handle offsets. Basically if you have say a 10 tool changer/ turret. To get to the 2nd set of tool offsets you start at tool 11 and go up to tool 20. Basically tool 11 = slot 1 and so on. Third set of tools would be 21 = slot one. Mach has the capability to do this as well. Why would you ever need to have multiple offsets for the same tool number when they can each have there own offset? Only reason I can think of is the tool changer macro isn't smart enough to handle anything past its physical number of tool slots?? If there is another reason could someone explain it to me?  If the tool changer macro if the issue I might be able to help with that as well. Seams like a simple fix.

Wes

Offline DaOne

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Re: New IPS (Interactive Programming System) Professional Screen for Turn
« Reply #63 on: September 08, 2011, 03:37:47 PM »
Wes, just a note from a non-pro CNC lathe user. I know you're spending a lot of time on this (and it shows!), but making tutorial videos on how to utilize the features of this screenset would sell a LOT more of these. Especially to guys like myself who would benefit from all the "extras" in a screen set, but aren't sure how to go about using them.

Good luck to you-
Dave

I plan on making some videos as time permits. Right now all of my free time is going into making the screen. This thing is a ton more work than I thought it would ever become. :o  I am also planning on doing .html based help files that are accessed directly for the screen you are on and having issues with. I would classify myself as as high end user since I own a machine shop with the real cnc controls. I program them (mostly in cad/cam) set them up and run them every day. This doesn't however mean I know it all. There is always a different way to skin a cat sort of speak.  What I am trying to do is bring that level to mach. I started with the lathe side since that was by far lacking the most. Its great to have feedback on this as it helps me to understand other methods. It should create a better product that more users will benefit from.

Dan, if you still wanna do some testing I will send ya a copy and let you play with it. I would love to get this offset issue straightened out.

Offline DaOne

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Re: New IPS (Interactive Programming System) Professional Screen for Turn
« Reply #64 on: September 08, 2011, 08:13:20 PM »
I have been thinking about the tool number without matching offset a bit more. Trying to come up with a simple solution for people with turrets. What if I created a way to input the number of tool slots your turret/tool changer has. Tool numbers will be sequential to the slots as I stated above. It will Display the calculated tool slot as well as the tool number and offset. This will allow you to reference the screens DRO for the calculated tool slot in your macro. Maybe you can post the macros you are using.

Offline Ya-Nvr-No

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Re: New IPS (Interactive Programming System) Professional Screen for Turn
« Reply #65 on: September 08, 2011, 10:39:35 PM »
Say you going to use one tool to turn and face both sides of a part; (Why use two right?)

there are two ways to setup a machine depending on the controller.

First way you have tool T01 and T02 set up with the same X offset but the Z offset will be the amount you leave for the second side. (Say .060") Now on the first side the finished face is set to zero for T01. After machining the first side and you flip the part now the finished face using T02 on the second side is Z zero. Now in production I can check the tool setup page and assure myself that they are still set at the amount I want to leave. If they are not its time for a refresher training.

The second way is using the same T01 tool but you call up offsets to use such as T0101 or T0102. And they are the same in X but different in Z by .0600"

They both work but on a turret machine or a machine that indexes tool slots, guess what; it indexes so in that case you have to use the second method or you would have to have multiple tool with an offset for each tool. I don't like to have multiple tools of the same unless I am running high production and have a tool management system. (After so many parts it uses the alternate tool)

I'm not big on having ghost numbers (tools that I make up just to get offset)

You could use G10 to grid shift everything but that's not a good way to handle tool setups.
Of course you could work offset for each side. But it is not usually customary to program that way due to operator overload. And on Fanuc controls additional offsets is an option that they make you pay for. (And it is not cheap) Most never buy that option on a turning center, where on a Mill it is part of the package.
Oh ya G10 is an option that has to be bought too. along with background editing which I love.

So it comes down to the type of tool offset package is contingent on how the tools are loaded, turret or flat sliding table.
I prefer the second method  because it makes more sense to the operator to call it the same tool, but have different offsets depending on what feature he is machining. Because generally we only let them change wear offsets and limit to relatively small increments. Thus protecting them from moving to far to fast or fat fingers. For the most part I can walk up to any controller and tell looking at that screen the conditions of my inserts. If the wear offsets are less than half of the tool nose radius I know that all is pretty well (depending on the job and tolerances of course), but if I see a number that is high in value, I know something is not right in some way.

Proper tool setup is very critical when you are doing parametric programming using variables. Because it is easy to start changing numbers to get the part back in spec. But as soon as they change parts they are way off based on the variables saved and used the last time that part was made. 

Hope that helps.

Offline DaOne

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Re: New IPS (Interactive Programming System) Professional Screen for Turn
« Reply #66 on: September 08, 2011, 11:13:03 PM »
OK, this helps visualize it for me. The thing I don't understand is no matter how you do it there will be "ghost tools". The "offset" is really just a tool number that is never used for anything but the offset. Am I correct? If so.. I am going to have to look into modifying the tool table of a non current tool. Basically providing a DRO to input the ghost tool number you want to save the offset to. Like I say wouldn't it be much easier for the guy setting up the machine and the programmer to just specify a tool number and let the CNC machine figure out the rest?

Example...

Turret has 8 slots

Tool is in slot 1

Tool one is for front face so set the tool offsets for tool 1

Now we need to do the back face....

Tool 9 is the turrets physical slot 1 again when called up.

Call up tool 9 and set the offset as tool 9.

This method works for multiple offsets as well as multiple tools such as gang tooling plates.


Screen allows you to input the number of turret slots for your machine in settings. It will then display the physical slot number when a tool number is called. This slot number can be also referenced in the macro to position your turret. I will admit that the industrial machines (mostly Haas machines) run production and we do have a tool library but I couldn't imagine my guys not screwing up if they were given a setup sheet with tool numbers with variable offsets that can be anything.

Let me know your thoughts.

Offline Ya-Nvr-No

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Re: New IPS (Interactive Programming System) Professional Screen for Turn
« Reply #67 on: September 09, 2011, 12:01:00 AM »
That's your only option with mach3 unless you can get the powers to be to change the way tool offsets are entered and used.

Unless you do this; T01 and Tool T101 are the same tools: T02 and T102 are the same tools, mach3 has lots of offsets to use. Then it makes logical sense to see that a T101 or T102 is the operation 20 and T01 and T02 is the operation 10. And I don't have to figure out what turret slot i'm using i know its the last two digits. Can not imagine more that 99 tools on a lathe.


Offline DaOne

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Re: New IPS (Interactive Programming System) Professional Screen for Turn
« Reply #68 on: September 09, 2011, 12:46:52 AM »
Hmm I gotta think on this one.

As far as not needing to know the slot its in.. you really dont need to care. You just setting up another tool. U push Turret fwd and thats the next tool. The way your doing it is almost the same but there are no checks in place to know what the 2nd offset is. It can be anywhere.  This is because T102 is actually tool one using tool 2 offsets. The only way to set offset 2 is to go to tool slot 2 and touch off the tool.  But lest say there is already a tool in that slot.. you 1- erase it (knowingly and fixed anything else that uses it) or 2- crash as soon as you call tool two accidentally. I am really not sure how to handle a setup screen for the method you guys are using. How are you doing it right now with a turret?

About the only way I can think of is using a UserDRO for the number of the imaginary tool (what your calling up as an offset) and using SetToolParam to set all the offsets when you touch off the tool. You basically get the turret set to the correct slot using tool number and then enter in the offset you want to set everything to. Maybe I can make 2 different tool setup screens. You will have the option in the settings page to choose the method you want to use.

Offline DaOne

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Re: New IPS (Interactive Programming System) Professional Screen for Turn
« Reply #69 on: September 09, 2011, 12:49:48 AM »
Quote
Can not imagine more that 99 tools on a lathe
Its not hard with specialty forming tools, broaches, taps, drills, multi point thread formers.. the list goes on and on.