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Multiple Tools of Different Heights
« on: March 01, 2011, 12:24:54 PM »
Sorry if this is an old question. I either don't know how to search properly or ask a question properly.
I haven't played with tool offset yet, but am I correct in my thinking:
If I have Tool 1 (T1) as a 1.0 inch long center drill and zero it out on my work piece and then want to drill with a Tool 2 (T2) a 2 inch long drill do I input a +1.0 inch offset in the offset table?
If this is correct or even close, my follow up question is how do I calibrate the T2 change to be exactly 1.0 inch longer than the zeroed out T1 tool since I am using the same chuck and removing the center drill and then installing the drill bit? Do I somehow zero it out on the part again?
Thanks in advance.
Rick
Re: Multiple Tools of Different Heights
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2011, 01:00:28 PM »
Hi Rick,
 If you're putting tools in and out of the same chuck, I wouldn't fool with the TLO's or the tool table.
Just put the too in, touch off on the part and Zero the Z DRO.
For drill bits, I sometimes position the chuck over the part at nearly the proper height, then let the bit rest on the material as I tighten the chuck. Then zero the Z DRO, Raise Z a bit and off I go.

Re: Multiple Tools of Different Heights
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2011, 01:06:56 PM »
meant to say also, TLO and the tooltable are primarily for where you have multiple tool holders with tools in each one.
One holder (and tool) is used as a Reference to which all others are set in relation to. They are all initially set by touching off or can be set with a presetter.
Just my limited experience, HIH
Re: Multiple Tools of Different Heights
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2011, 06:24:56 PM »
Rick,

If you would like an intro to Tool length offsets and Work Coordinate systems, a good introduction (so I've been told) and explanation of the topic is in the User Manual for the MachStdMill (MSM) software. 

Chapter 4 covers work coordinate systems and the first part of chapter 5 (thru 5.2) covers tool changes and the most common techniques for using Tool Length Offsets (TLOs). 

Independent of the MSM software package itself, you would probably find those sections of the manual applicable to any mach mill setup - as they cover the concepts you're asking about.

The PDF manual can be downloaded (free) from the download page of www.CalypsoVentures.com

Dave
Author of the MachStdMill Extensions for Mach3
www.CalypsoVentures.com
Re: Multiple Tools of Different Heights
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2011, 07:50:20 PM »
Thanks so much for the two of you. DaveCVI, I will look at the information you are talking about.
Overloaded, I am glad and that using the tool offset isn't what I want. If I didn't mention it, I am just a hobbyist with a X2 machine punishing myself with trying to learn this stuff.
You said to put in the tool, touch off on the part and zero it. That sounds good on the first tool, that is what I do. The second tool is were it gets fuzzy for me. If I where to run two separate programs for each tool I get it.
The way I have the program at each new tool the machine jogs to my machine 0,0,0 point. Can I then install the new tool of a differnet height, manually jog down to touch off on the part, zero the z and start program again.
The resetting the Z and jogging away from where the program last drove it is where I loose the theory. Is it smarter than me and knows what to do?
Thanks again for all your help.
Rick
Re: Multiple Tools of Different Heights
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2011, 10:33:50 PM »
DaveCVI,
Do you use or know of anyone who uses the MachStdMill (MSM) software?
Thanks.
Rick
Re: Multiple Tools of Different Heights
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2011, 11:35:05 PM »
You said to put in the tool, touch off on the part and zero it. That sounds good on the first tool, that is what I do. The second tool is were it gets fuzzy for me. If I where to run two separate programs for each tool I get it.
The way I have the program at each new tool the machine jogs to my machine 0,0,0 point. Can I then install the new tool of a differnet height, manually jog down to touch off on the part, zero the z and start program again.
The resetting the Z and jogging away from where the program last drove it is where I loose the theory. Is it smarter than me and knows what to do?

Make NO entries in the tool table. All are 0.000 . Then when your program calls for a tool change, I assume it goes to your Tool Change Position and stops for the tool change. Jog over the part and put in the next tool, touch off and Zero the Z. Jog the Z up and back to the TCPos. if you'd like but that isn't necessary, it will resume to the next line of code when you hit Cycle Start and continue to the next tool change .... or the end of the program. Some folks use a collar on the bits so they all go in the chuck at the same respective depth each time. In that case, you could set them up in the tool table and let the code set the TLO's automatically. I'm new too, sure there are other/better ways. This is the method I use with a drill chuck.

Quote
  Can I then install the new tool of a differnet height, manually jog down to touch off on the part, zero the z and start program again.
The resetting the Z and jogging away from where the program last drove it is where I loose the theory. Is it smarter than me and knows what to do?

Yep ...  

I'll read the MSM doc. also.
Good luck,
Russ
Re: Multiple Tools of Different Heights
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2011, 11:47:52 PM »
5.2.4.3 NO TLO – Shifting Z-zero

Pages 95, 96

I wasn't too far off.  ::)
Re: Multiple Tools of Different Heights
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2011, 11:50:56 PM »
Rick -
I know quite a few that do -   ...I'm the author of the software.  ;)

I thought that the explanations I wrote for the MSM user manual would be of help in understanding the concepts involved.  So I was trying to  point you toward a description of the topics you were interested in (w/o giving you a sales pitch) - it just so happens that the best description I know of is in the MSM user manual. I've had many people tell me that the manual is a positive feature of the software. I wrote the MSM manual to be both the user manual for MSM and to serve as a "how to use mach" manual.

The are a lot of misconceptions about TLOs - as many think that a Tool Length Offset is the physical length of the tool, but that is seldom the case. To get people over that (usually) bad assumption, I had to cover a bunch of info to lead up to explaining why that is - the effort to do that resulted in much of sections 4 and 5 of the MSM manual.

The MSM manual covers these TLO techniques:
1) resetting Z Zero each time you switch to a different tool. This is not really a TLO method as it does not make use of TLOs with Mach.
2) Using the physical length of the tool as the TLO. It's a bit counter intuitive at first, but this is NOT a common method (the manual goes into some detail as to why that is).
3) Touching tools to a common reference surface on a part to set the TLO value. This is the most used method.
4) The concept of a Master Tool. This is an advanced method which can be very handy once it's understood.

MSM provides support for all these methods and integrates probing (both 3D and touch plates) so that setup operations can be much easier. For example: With a touch plate MSM can auto measure a tool as part of a tool change.  If I continue down that discussion path, I'll end up explaining some of the reasons I created MSM (I prefer not to spend time doing tasks a computer is good at doing for me).

Please understand that you're welcome to learn from the MSM manual whether you want to use the MSM software or not.

If you want to know more about the MSM software itself, I'll be happy to answer questions about that too.

Dave

DaveCVI,
Do you use or know of anyone who uses the MachStdMill (MSM) software?
Thanks.
Rick
Author of the MachStdMill Extensions for Mach3
www.CalypsoVentures.com
Re: Multiple Tools of Different Heights
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2011, 11:55:27 PM »
That's really some manual there Dave ... Great job ?
I need to take the time to go through it completely.
Very nice screen set also.
Regards,
Russ