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Author Topic: M3 & M4 relay configurations etc...  (Read 5937 times)

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Offline Sweep

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M3 & M4 relay configurations etc...
« on: September 21, 2010, 08:35:20 AM »
I have built a cicuit board with relays and opto isolators to interface various commands from Mach3 to my Denford Triac that I am upgrading from the original 1980's spec.
The original machine changes the direction of the DC motor using just one relay to switch the positive and negative connections. This relay is normally closed for CW running but when energised switches to CCW. I want to control this large relay from the relay on my circuit board.
In addition to this there is a 'close to run' function on the DC controller that starts and stops the spindle. If these terminals are just bridged then the spindle still creeps round when the PWM from Mach3 is sending 0rpm. I also want to contol this function from a relay on my circuit board.
So, the question. How to I wire up the machine so I can still use M3 and M4 which will be generated from normal CAM programs.
I can energise the reversing relay from M4 (CCW) command but I cannot use M3 (CW) command to swith the 'close to run' relay for CCW as this means that both M3 and M4 will need to be operating together which is a problem.

...Sweep

Offline Hood

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Re: M3 & M4 relay configurations etc...
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2010, 09:04:12 AM »
If I am reading right then all you need to do is specify an output you are not using for for anything and that way M3 will not go near your relay.

Hood
Re: M3 & M4 relay configurations etc...
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2010, 03:52:34 PM »
is the triac the older one with the electronics underneath, or in a seperate box?

Offline Sweep

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Re: M3 & M4 relay configurations etc...
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2010, 05:08:18 PM »
Hi Hood,

Thats correct, but I still need to 'throw' the 'close to run' relay to energise the spindle in either direction. I agree that I could have M4 as a valid output linked to the reversing relay, and M3 to a phantom output, say 57 or 91 etc, but I still can't 'close to run'

Hi Angel tech,

The Triac is a very early model with the electronics underneath. In fact, well probably, it is the very first Triac ever to have an ATC as the tool changer control has serial number 001.
I have moved the electronics into a seperate wall mounted enclosure, away from any nasty coolant, made various circuit boards, all fully opto-isolated, for datums & overtravels, step & direction, two lots of output relay boards, each with 5 relays, and am curently working on a board for the inputs. All of this is for the fun of it as I have no use for the machine when it's done ...the rebuild is the hobby and I have had to learn about everything i've done at every step as i have no electronics training. So, for example, when doing the boards i had to learn not only about optoisolators, transistors, and Zener diodes, and the correct choice of resistors for each choice of these items, but also how to produce pcbs using Circuit Wizard and Press n Peel paper which forced me into picking up a clothes iron for the first time in my 42 years ...very scary!  :o
Just out of interest I checked back on the Denford forum and my first post, asking whether I should buy the machine or not was posted on the 16th November 2006. Sad or what?
http://www.denfordata.com/bb/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=553
I have been a member of this site since buying the Triac and everytime I have asked for assistance it has been provided freely and willingly, and I have never been asked for anything in return. So, sincere thanks to everyone who has helped me so far, and hopefully I will be also be able to repay the favours to any Triac newbies out there. Please remember though, my comments are experiences not expertise.

...Sweep

Offline Hood

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Re: M3 & M4 relay configurations etc...
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2010, 06:17:09 PM »
Ah ok I see what you mean now.
You should be able to do it from the M3 and M4 macros
Just have the macros switch an output to energise the motor.
For example it should work if you connect the main relay to a spare output , say 4 for my example, then in the M3 have

ActivateSignal(OutPut4)
DoSpinCW()

M4 macro would be the same except DoSpinCCW()

You would also need to edit the M5 macro to have

DeActivateSignal(OutPut4)
DoSpinStop()

Hood
Re: M3 & M4 relay configurations etc...
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2010, 07:10:57 PM »
it's been a while since i did one of these, and many machines since, so bear with me while i get my bearings. Are you still using the denford main board and the brown and pestell inverter, as i replaced these items in my conversions. A new1/2hp inverter(drives direct) is a good investment  as i've had the original b&p inverter fail for no apparent reason whatsoever. If you go down that route forward and reverse is a doddle, it'd as easy as two relays one for fwd and one for rev, and an isolated  0-10v analogue converter for the speed. You should be able to do this on the original brown & pestell inverter, i'll double check on the datasheet.
I'll pm you my contact numbers if you fancy a chat about this.

Offline Sweep

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Re: M3 & M4 relay configurations etc...
« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2010, 07:38:03 PM »
Hi Angel tech,

Mine has a Lenze DC motor and Lynx 08 controller. I have built a PWM to 0-10v converter onto one of my boards and it works ok. The 'close to run' is part of the design of the Lynx and is pretty straight forward to hard-wire into one of my relays as it has its own power supply. As I mentioned above,if I don't break this link when S=0 then the spindle still creeps round at, say, 10rpm.
The Lynx, whilst quite old, is pretty robust. A while ago whilst i was test running the spindle from the PWM. I went upstairs to check something or other on the internet only to find the cellar full of smoke when I returned. One of the large capacitors on the Lynx had burst and it was pretty scary. All I did was replace these components with the exact same new ones bought from RS for about £1 and the thing worked again. Great big components that you can actually replace. That ain't going to be the case with a modern inverter, though I do have a new ABB ACS50 on stock just in case!
I appreciate your offer of a chat and will take you up on it later this week.

thanks ...Sweep
Re: M3 & M4 relay configurations etc...
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2010, 05:00:10 AM »
sounds like the same fault the gemini boards have in the boxfords. 0.1uf  400v caps burn very well.

Offline Sweep

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Re: M3 & M4 relay configurations etc...
« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2010, 07:10:47 PM »
Sorry for not replying sooner but i've  been busy with work.

Hood, tried to find the Macros menu but couldn't find it on any of the tool bars. Is this option only available with the 'full licence' version?

...Sweep

Offline Hood

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Re: M3 & M4 relay configurations etc...
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2010, 02:08:22 AM »
You have to look in the Mach3 folder, you will see a folder called Macros and then in that there will be individual folders for the profiles you have, so you then look in the folder of the profile you use.
To read or edit a macro you go from the operator menu in Mach then VB Editor and browse to the folder mentioned and open the macro you want.
Hood