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Author Topic: Retro fitting a Fadal/Haas ect.  (Read 7284 times)

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Offline TT350

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Retro fitting a Fadal/Haas ect.
« on: August 13, 2010, 11:39:29 AM »
From time to time I run across a VMC like a Haas,Fadal, Mazak  at actions.

They are sold as is where is and I don't want to fall prey to some ones
proprietary controls.

Has anyone retrofitted a commercial VMC with a tool changer with Mach?

I hope I've posted this in the right place.

Offline Hood

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Re: Retro fitting a Fadal/Haas ect.
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2010, 01:45:19 PM »
I have done a large lathe which has a 6 position rear turret and a 4 position front toolpost.
The main thing that will be an issue is the VMC/Lathe or whatever will almost certainly have analogue amplifiers/drives so you will need some way of converting the Step/Dir signals that Mach puts out into an analogue voltage. The lathe I did came without the amplifiers as it was a dual buy by me and a friend and he was wanting the old HIAK drives, I put AC Servos and drives on and the drives could accept Step/Dir so I never had that problem.
If however the amps/drives are in working order on your machine then you could use one of the motion controllers that can utilise analogue drives, the ones I know of are
Galil
DSPMC
K-Flop


Hood
Re: Retro fitting a Fadal/Haas ect.
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2010, 01:58:21 PM »
i have a question about analog servo driver.
there are a pair wire for analog input(+-10V) ,when i connect this two wire (i mean 0V for analog input),i see motor rotate a little ,While must motor Remain motionless. i use yaskawa driver.
why?


Amir
**Even a clock that does not work is right twice a day**

Offline Hood

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Re: Retro fitting a Fadal/Haas ect.
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2010, 02:00:56 PM »
i have a question about analog servo driver.
there are a pair wire for analog input(+-10V) ,when i connect this two wire (i mean 0V for analog input),i see motor rotate a little ,While must motor Remain motionless. i use yaskawa driver.
why?


Amir

I am not sure how you are connecting the wires but it is likely there will be noise getting picked up so there are mV present thus the motor rotates.
Hood
Re: Retro fitting a Fadal/Haas ect.
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2010, 02:06:25 PM »
i connect pin 14 to 15 .
**Even a clock that does not work is right twice a day**

Offline Hood

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Re: Retro fitting a Fadal/Haas ect.
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2010, 02:19:42 PM »
I am no electronics expert but by doing that you will get a small voltage, likely due to the internal circuitry of the drive or possibly the wire itself picking up noise. It only takes a few mV to move the motor.
Why are you doing that anyway?

Normally in these drives you can offset the voltage to overcome this creep, in modern drives its done in software, in older drives it was done via a pot.

I fitted a servo to the spindle of my manual lathe (gearbox was noisy) and I use a =-10v via a pot to control speed but use auxiliary position input to stop and hold the motor stationary. Without using the position mode the motor would creep like you are seeing, I could offset that in the software but it would obviously affect the reverse direction rotation as the voltage in reverse would need to be higher than the offset before it would turn.
When connected to a CNC control this is likely not an issue as the control itself would see the motor moving so would command an opposite voltage to hold it stationary.

Hood
Re: Retro fitting a Fadal/Haas ect.
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2010, 02:31:33 PM »
i think i have Ground issue.
yes , i also connect range 0 ~ +-10V and motor rotate .all thing is ok but i have noise in system.i think
in addition my driver dont have position mode.


Amir
« Last Edit: August 13, 2010, 02:36:10 PM by manmardam »
**Even a clock that does not work is right twice a day**

Offline BR549

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Re: Retro fitting a Fadal/Haas ect.
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2010, 03:01:03 PM »
WHile is is simple to get basic functions working xyza axis control it can be a BEAST to get all the other functions working as they should. It will require knowledge in using a PLC and ladder logic for the tool changer AND a plugin to get the tool changer function working as it SHOULD.

Mach is very usefull but it does have its limits. There IS a reason that proprietery controls seem very complicated. They have to be for a reason.

For applications that need a GOOD analog solution Keep a watch on what SteveM is doing with the MESA line of motion controls(PCI and USB). These controls have been used in the emc world for a while now and are very good quailty and a fair price to boot. MANY COOL options available as well. Things like rigid tapping and electronic gearing are possible. Steve has been working HARD to get the plugin up to speed.

Just a thought
Re: Retro fitting a Fadal/Haas ect.
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2010, 04:08:18 PM »
i test with digital driver. In this way ,when i connect S-ON pin to GND, motor lock( dont can rotate with hand ) and motor stationary.
now with analog drive ,when connect S-ON to GND motor stationary BUT i can rotate shaft with hand To both sides.
What difference there?



Amir
**Even a clock that does not work is right twice a day**

Offline Hood

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Re: Retro fitting a Fadal/Haas ect.
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2010, 04:18:20 PM »
AND a plugin to get the tool changer function working as it SHOULD.

Terry, why would a plugin be required to get a toolchanger working, all the ones I have seen are basically I/O and/or timers and can easily be done in a ladder and M6 macro.


Amir, not really sure what you are saying but really you should start your own thread as you have kind of hijacked this one with questions that dont really relate to the original posters questions.
Hood