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Author Topic: Mach Controls On/Off of spindle, not speed?  (Read 11579 times)

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Offline BarryB

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Mach Controls On/Off of spindle, not speed?
« on: December 31, 2009, 10:37:30 PM »
Hello, I've got a mill I'm building using a smooth stepper, C23 BOB, Hitachi X200 VFD.  I've gotten the spindle to turn on and off just fine, but when I set the VFD to get speed from the control terminals, instead of the potentiometer on the front of the VFD, it only spins about 10% of full.  I can have Mach control the on/off, and then use the potentiometer by hand each time, just thought, there would be a way for Mach3 to control on off, and the speed.  Am I off my rocker?  I haven't found a setting that will work for this.

Do others use Mach 3 just to control on/off, and they do the speed by hand too?

Barry

Offline ger21

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Re: Mach Controls On/Off of spindle, not speed?
« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2009, 11:25:47 PM »
You need to use the analog output of the C23 to provide 0-10V to the VFD. See page 4 of the manual, "Configuring the Analog Output: "
http://cnc4pc.com/Tech_Docs/C23-Dual_Port_Multifunction_CNC_Board_Rev2.pdf
Gerry

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Offline BarryB

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Re: Mach Controls On/Off of spindle, not speed?
« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2010, 01:00:17 PM »
Thanks, I missed that section, thought it was just a brochure/marketing doc;)

Is there an advantage to controlling the speed through Mach3?  Do you commonly change the speed of something mid job?  How does your CAM software know when to insert a speed change?

It might be my newb-ness, but isn't having it external preferred, so you can adjust on the fly if need be.  For instance differing densities in wood, etc.

Barry
Re: Mach Controls On/Off of spindle, not speed?
« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2010, 01:08:45 PM »
Hi Barry,
 The CAM will automatically change the speed but by what is entered for that tool in CAM itself when it spits out the gcode.
Other than that, the SRO and FRO on the RUN screen are for changing speeds on the fly.
Russ

« Last Edit: January 01, 2010, 01:24:41 PM by Overloaded »

Offline Sam

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Re: Mach Controls On/Off of spindle, not speed?
« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2010, 02:43:20 PM »
Quote
Do you commonly change the speed of something mid job?
pretty much 90% of the time.
Quote
How does your CAM software know when to insert a speed change?
Some CAM software calculates the chip load and all that stuff for you, so it will output the correct (recommended) feeds and speeds, based on the tool selection, like Russ stated.  Some will even make changes for arcs and other stuff. The parameters can really get advanced with high speed machining. The way my CAM tells what feed and speeds to use are....by me telling it what to use. Just from experience. This usually gets it in the ball field, or at least inside the stadium. Then I can use the overrides to dial it in. If I have several parts to cut, I go back and edit the feed in the code to what it needs to be.
Quote
isn't having it external preferred, so you can adjust on the fly if need be
Preferred may be a bad way of looking at it. More suitable would be...ability to control externally.
Quote
Is there an advantage to controlling the speed through Mach3?
Absolutely. Say for instance you run a large quantity of parts, that require changes in speed for different tools. You wouldn't want to have to change the speeds and feeds manually for every tool change, for every part.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2010, 02:46:16 PM by Sam »
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Offline BarryB

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Re: Mach Controls On/Off of spindle, not speed?
« Reply #5 on: January 01, 2010, 02:48:37 PM »
Thanks, I'll change the input back to sink and get the speed controlled via Mach.  I just got homing to work, I'm so excited;)

Barry

Offline BarryB

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Re: Mach Controls On/Off of spindle, not speed?
« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2010, 08:16:58 PM »
Hmm, now that I've changed back to 'sink' and I thought these things are hooked up right it is crashing Mach3 right after you toggle the spindle on.

I've got a couple questions though, as maybe I'm setting Mach3 up incorrectly for this.  It looks like there is a setting that is missing according to the pdf from CNC4PC.  According to:

http://cnc4pc.com/Tech_Docs/C23R2toVFD.pdf

You are still supposed to use pin 1 and 16 for fwd/stop and rev/stop.
Then there is pin 14 for (0-10v), which I assume is step and subsequently, for velocity.

This leaves out another pin for direction.  It wouldn't be 1 or 16, since this would limit the machine to only spin in one direction, would it?  The PDF shows using both, so I assume it's a 4th pin that we don't see on this pdf somewhere.  Guidance would be apppreciated, if anybody has an idea.

Offline ftec

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Re: Mach Controls On/Off of spindle, not speed?
« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2010, 02:02:23 PM »
.....
You are still supposed to use pin 1 and 16 for fwd/stop and rev/stop.
Then there is pin 14 for (0-10v), which I assume is step and subsequently, for velocity.

....

You've got those right but set also the Dir Pin# to 0 for the spindle in Motor Outputs. I'm wiring the relays 1 & 16 as in the pic below to get them control both ON/OFF and CW/CCW. This works for Chinese Huanyang VFDs so you need to modify it according to your VFD

I'm using CNC4PCs C11 card and so far haven't got the 0-10V output give more than 9.3V and that happens about 15% under the max 24000 rpm. If I give a higher S value than the 20500 rpm then the voltage drops again. So I have to say that I'm not too pleased with the card at the moment. If you encounter similar problems and can solve them please let me know.

/Risto



« Last Edit: January 03, 2010, 05:25:50 AM by ftec »

Offline BarryB

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Re: Mach Controls On/Off of spindle, not speed?
« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2010, 02:34:09 PM »
setting the direction pin to 0, throws an error in Mach 3, saying the only valid numbers are 1,2,3, etc.  As soon as I click the spindle on, it starts to spin, then crashes Mach3.  I'm not a happy camper at the moment.  The Smooth Stepper I'm using is set to Step/Dir for spindle control, and 40 for pulse width.  In Mach, spindle tab is set to enable output 1 and 2, which is set to pin 1 and pin 16.  For spindle output control, it's set to step/dir.  In spindle motor outputs I've got it set to 14, and any number, tried 0, 17, etc, and each time, it starts, then crashes mach3.  Lovely.

Offline ftec

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Re: Mach Controls On/Off of spindle, not speed?
« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2010, 02:43:13 PM »
setting the direction pin to 0, throws an error in Mach 3, saying the only valid numbers are 1,2,3, etc.  As soon as I click the spindle on, it starts to spin, then crashes Mach3.  I'm not a happy camper at the moment.  The Smooth Stepper I'm using is set to Step/Dir for spindle control, and 40 for pulse width.  In Mach, spindle tab is set to enable output 1 and 2, which is set to pin 1 and pin 16.  For spindle output control, it's set to step/dir.  In spindle motor outputs I've got it set to 14, and any number, tried 0, 17, etc, and each time, it starts, then crashes mach3.  Lovely.

I certainly do have the Spindle Dir Pin# as 0 and this is how it is written in the Mach manual (Using Mach3Mill) for spindle control from where i got it. Can't help with the Smoothstepper, sorry.