Machsupport Forum
Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: nissan20det on January 24, 2016, 05:05:10 PM
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Hey guys!
So if any of you guys could help I would really appreciate it.
I'm stuck I can't get my motors to turn. I have nema/24s (eBay) with M542 drivers and a 36v 10amp power supply. I'm pretty sure I have mach 3's settings right but I'm not positive. Ive tried both active low and high and get no differance. If I test my Xclk pin on breakout board with my scope I get a perfect 5us square wave to I'm sure I have that right but motors don't move. I have 5v from breakout going to pulse+ Dir+ and Ena+ then clk pin to (-) pulse dir pin to (-) dir. Green light it on the driver. Motor is wired red blue green black. I'm so lost!!! Everything's brand new and I doubt all 3 drivers and all 3 steppers are bad. Motors also move by hand, so you don't think any power is going to them at all. I'm not sure if the scope will read anything out to steppers but I tried grounding and testing driver output to steppers and get nothing.
I do notice on diognostic screen the Ejog- and Ejog+ for all axies don't light when joging with keyboard or tab screen, is it suppose to? Also I'm sure ports and pins are right since I'm getting that output sig.
Any thoughts? Please I'm so lost.
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Provide a link for the steppers you bought, the drive you bought, and the break out board.
Post your xml file you using so we can have a look at your configuration.
Someone will take a look at it all.
When you jog does the axis DRO show movement?
Is the estop flashing on start up?
RICH
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Yes dro is moving and estop is lit on start up. I will post my configuration up tonight.
Another thing I noticed is the motors lock on computer start and won't unlock till I start mach up.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-Axis-CNC-Kit-439-oz-in-Nema-24-Stepper-Motor-M542T-Driver-CNC-Mill-Plasma-/231398331688?hash=item35e06a5528:g:HysAAOSwu4BVh~75
http://www.ebay.com/itm/US-Ship-5-Axis-MACH3-CNC-Breakout-Board-Interface-for-Stepper-Motor-Driver-/231617048089?hash=item35ed73ae19:g:d6AAAOSw3ydVmzqq
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okay guys heres my setup as is, any thing wrong?-----------
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Signal to driver from breakout board is 5volts 5us @11.3k Hz with a jog rate of about 160Units/Min.
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HIYA Rich , Don't you just love it when they do everything but what you asked them to do (;-)
(;-) TP
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http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,28353.0.html
FYI I believe this is the same breakout board you are using.
Don
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Sorry BR549, I figured pictures are easier as well I dont know how to post a file on a forum, their is no option to attach files. and everything else he asked i did, so.......
Yes don, that is but they are have a completely different problem.
So I narrowed it down to what it is exactly doing. If I just power the drivers with 36v supply on, mother board off but PSU supply on, I can get the motor to Unlock and Re-lock when I power ENA+ with 5v and tap ENA(-) with ground. when motherboard is on they lock on start up then I open mach3 up, For some reason when I jog they release, then I can get it ever to lock the motor again. They'll also release when ground is applied but if I remove ground or switch enable on breakout from Low to High, they only half ass lock up, like just where I can feel the steps, so a little tighter then released but they can still be turned by hand. Nothing like when motherboard is off.
any thoughts? if you guys need the config file could you tell me how to post it?
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Your .xml file is located in the Mach3 folder <your profile>.xml (typically Mach3Mill.xml). Copy this file , rename it to Nissan.xml. Use the Reply tab then select Additional Options to attach the file to your post.
Tweakie.
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I haven't looked at all the info, but quickly read reply 7.
When the controller power supply is turned on the steppers should lock up. Current has been applied to the motors and thus the field is holding
the rotor in place / since the motor is not being pulsed. So you have max holding torque and that is based on the drive current setting.
Now some drives allow for reduced current to the motor when stationary, and as such, the drive will reduce the current, thus you can actually manually
turn the shaft. ( torque reduced and you can easily make it skip ) When pulsed the current is increased based on the current setting. On some drives this current reducing can really SUCK when implemented during actual machining.
Again, haven't looked the drive info ( multitasking at the moment!)........,
RICH
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Yes I did notice this driver has the option to set half current while stationary. This Isn't the issue I tried full and half modes, Driver current set to 3.2, Steppers handle 3.5 micro step is just at 400 for the moment. Everything is new fyi, all from StepperOnline
When it locks on start up it's not movable, Then the second I hit jog it frees up to the half ass locked mode(no where near half amperage). But the thing is I cant get it to re lock at all. Even if stationary current is set to full, once I hit jog I cant ever get it to fully re-lock or fully enable unless I turn 36v supply off and on again. My pulse signal is good though If you look at attached picture, sig is 5.02v. Its acting like the second the driver gets a pulse It disengages and wont fully re-engage unless I turn it off and on again. ahhhh I so freaking lost,this is the simplest circuit I just dont get it!!!!!!!! ??? ???
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One thing, you have the Estop on pin 10 along with x & y limits. Needs to be on its own pin.
But that may not be your current problem.
Are you sure the motor leads are connected to the drives properly ?
You can check the leads with a vom to identify the coils.
Maybe ? ?
Russ
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Never seen the RnRMotion controller before.
Also, you have a pirated version with an invalid license.
You MUST correct that FIRST.
Regards,
Russ
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Ya that RNR motion controller is a usb one made by SainSmart for only $50. thats who I got that version from.. I also have one from stepper online with a license, Should I install that and try it?
and Im sure there right ... red,blue,green,black is the order
and ********* if that's a pirated version someone should report there ass!!!!
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tried version that came from stepper online. still exact same.... I even tried my lab top as well...signals are all the same and motor unlocks the second jog is hit
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Ahh I'm freaking screwed I swear!!!! I just can figure it out!
Did meter test and looked at data sheet. Order is A+blackA-greenB+redB-blue
I also noticed after I hit jog and they half ass lock, the motors have a high pitch ring to them.
Bad drivers maybe.. Weird but that means all three???
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Cool a moderator emailed me so hopefully they find these guys who Pirated this and sue the crap out of them!!!hahaha
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AAAHHHH ???????
Just what is the first pic meant to show?????
Cheers
Roger
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thats a sideways picture of the pulse output signal from breakout board on a scope. in that pic is a 5v 2us sig square wave. I didnt zoom that mach so you could see multiple signals.
SO I had another thought. am I getting stepper stall? I read if the internal optocoupler pulles to much current it will stall the stepper. The optos inside are 6N137's, they pull 20-50ma. Now on a hunch I pulled the cover off one of the drivers and tested the signal. from breakout I get a 5v square wave then theres an internal 220Ohm resistor which makes my wave drop to 1v sawtooth and then after the 6N137 Its all over the freaking place, Like just noise really.
Any thought on this? What is stepper stall? do you have to reset drivers after a stall?
also how am I suppose to know what A+ and B+ are from the four wires?
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Heres the motors datasheet
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thats a sideways picture of the pulse output signal from breakout board on a scope.
Really?
It looks like someone may have hacked the URL, because that 1st photo comes from anysex.com (it says so on the photo), and what the girl is doing to the man has nothing to do with CNC.
Perhaps a Mod needs to check?
Cheers
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HAHAHAHAHA WTF really??? OMG wow ya wasnt me... I now straightened it but I posted this...
and maybe its just you cuz I see what I posted??
Or do you mean the 1st 1st pic? that was the ports and pins 1st page.. that was a url I didnt know at that point this forum allowed attachments
But if you see somthing like that click the report to moderator on bottom right of that post and say what you see so they can take it off
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thats a sideways picture of the pulse output signal from breakout board on a scope.
Really?
It looks like someone may have hacked the URL, because that 1st photo comes from anysex.com (it says so on the photo), and what the girl is doing to the man has nothing to do with CNC.
Perhaps a Mod needs to check?
Cheers
Changed images from URL posting to actual image posting - should solve the problem. ;)
Tweakie.
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I figured it out!!!!!!
dip switch pannel is backward on mine for some reason hahahaha Saweet!!!!
Okay what do you guys think I should go with for 5mm lead ball screws- unit/inch
400 steps per rev - 800*5.08 = 2032
800 steps per rev - 800*5.08 = 4064
1600 steps per rev - 1600*5.08 = 8128
And also does changing the kernel speed change the wine sound of the motors?
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For a start, if the ball screw is metric, I would go METRIC!
Trying to go imperial is just a waste of effort, and (dare I suggest it?) archaic.
5 mm / 400 steps => 12.5 um/step: coarse!
5 mm / 800 => 6 um/step
5 mm / 1600 => 3 um/step - barely tolerable.
Cheers
Roger
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Trying to go imperial is just a waste of effort, and (dare I suggest it?) archaic.
I disagree with ya racffin........and we will need to agree to disagree.
Your motor setup ( ie; steps per unit etc. settings ) should be based on the default units you will normally work in.
Matters not if the screws are metric.
Use the lowest kernel speed you need for the velocity required as there is no advantage to going higher.
There is no advantage to micro stepping great than 10. Micro stepping increases theoretical resolution and provides for smoother stepper operation.
RICH
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Hi Rich
Chuckle.
Cheers
Roger
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For a start, if the ball screw is metric, I would go METRIC!
Trying to go imperial is just a waste of effort, and (dare I suggest it?) archaic.
5 mm / 400 steps => 12.5 um/step: coarse!
5 mm / 800 => 6 um/step
5 mm / 1600 => 3 um/step - barely tolerable.
Cheers
Roger
This is bad advice. Rich is right. Your native units should be the units you work in no matter what the screws, racks, etc. are in. Do the math to convert your steps per unit.
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Rich is right. Your native units should be the units you work in no matter what the screws, racks, etc. are in. Do the math to convert your steps per unit.
Roger that ..... over and out.
:)
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Well I definitely agree with setting it how Ill be working as well. Math doesn't lie so really it not matter what unit screws I got conversions can take place. Now one thing I noticed in the diagnostic screen it the unit change on bottom right. Now thats freaking sweet that I dont have to change one damn setting and pow Im in metric.. So on that note I don't see and issue on either way I set it up if I can switch that easy. Other then of course screwing something up because your adjusting in inchs and think your in mm's. Overall I agree though.
On another note, I have it set right now to 3600 Micro step so 8128/inch, I only went up that high because on direction change it seems to skip steps and be kinda clunky (no load, on bench) if at 1600 or lower.
I had a thought today, would lowering my acceleration fix the step skip problem on direction change? also Is it kinda clunky because of no load?
I read somewhere in my research higher micro step doesn't give better accuracy just smooths. As well you loose torque when raising microsteps. Do most you guys agree with this?
I was going as high in micro steps as I could to still achieve the speed I wanted. Is that a bad way to go at it? my original thoughts where to be at 800, Should I just stick with that? Just for poops and laughs, what are most you guys set at?
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As well you loose torque when raising microsteps. Do most you guys agree with this?
Nope. But the bloggers often think so.
if I can switch that easy.
A word of caution. DO NOT EVER switch units during a program!!!!! Sadness wil follow almost invariably.
DC servos with optical encoders, not steppers. Single step resolution of 0.8 microns.
Cheers
Roger
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I suggest you go to the Gecko Site and read a lot of the info they have about steppers, etc.
Doing that will answer a lot of questions or misconceptions you may have.
No use repeating the same info here.
Just for poops and laughs..............
Use 10us on my drives
Steps per unit are over 253000 for my engraving machine................ theoretical resolution better than 0.0000004".
Max velocity 5 IPM.
You asked .............. ;)
RICH
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hahahaha Nice Rich....
Well I was thinking about in the very near future to throw encoders on. I found some Omron 2000ppr three phase encoders for $25 a pop on eBay. would it be worth it?
Way different subject here, Do any of you use touch probes? Any of you made your own? I've been looking a lot into designs a thought of making one. I have a nifty trick/design I'm gonna try in the next few days. Have you seen anyone use a Piezo Transducer, and have it flex when probe moves? wonder if I can get that to work, I'll post the build up if it'll work as planned.
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never mind... :( I thought I had a million dollar Idea lol. some people have done it.
Well what do you guys think.
1. Piezo with a lot of amplification (Simple) have all parts..
2. Accelerometer/inclinometer 256LSB/g = 256mv/g -l do have parts but digital means ill have to use a Arduino to convert a Bit amount to a switched 5v.
3. actual inclinometer 16V/g - 280mv/degree hella sensitive!!!
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All of those require actual deflection of the sensing tip, either to get piezo voltage output or to tilt the inclinometer.
What the world really needs is a touch probe which does not need any deflection - which senses touch.
Cheers
Roger
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ya well thats not hard to do there all like that anyway. And why dont they do it with electrical contact. So Say probe with a wire down to the tip, Tip being a copper ball and having 5v just being contacted through your work peice? of course your stock would have to be conductive. don't some touch plates act like that?
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Conductive touch probes? That idea has been in use for ... I dunno, maybe 50 years or more. I really haven't a clue when it was first invented. Does not work on insulators of course.
Conductive touch plates for the axis? Yeah, just as ancient.
It might be amusing to do a patent search on the idea, to see how many times it has been patented. Probably would not put the PO in a good light, but I have not bothered.
cheers
Roger
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never mind... :( I thought I had a million dollar Idea lol. some people have done it.
Well what do you guys think.
1. Piezo with a lot of amplification (Simple) have all parts..
2. Accelerometer/inclinometer 256LSB/g = 256mv/g -l do have parts but digital means ill have to use a Arduino to convert a Bit amount to a switched 5v.
3. actual inclinometer 16V/g - 280mv/degree hella sensitive!!!
Why not just use a simple microswitch - I fitted a probe to my plasma machine and the accuracy is about 0.1mm repeatable. The downforce to trip the switch is a mere 3gm.
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Hi Dave
A microswitch might work fine if 0.1 mm is sufficient accuracy.
But you need something a shade better if you are looking for 0.01 mm or 10 um. For me, that would be the worst case.
Going below that (to under 5 um) gets even more $$$. I would be looking for this.
Cheers
Roger
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Ah, I see, thats the trouble with only using plasma - its not that accurate and does not need to be.
:)
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nisson20det,
Did you get the steppers moving yet?
All the other stuff is of no value if the axis won't move. ;)
RICH
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Yea I posted it earlier, the dip switch panel description was upside down on mine.
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trying to set up new scratch built 3 axis mach 3 ...i keep getting a limit error, though i test the limits and they test as NC, @ the BO board and individually? help.
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Hi Friends,
Totally new to DIY-CNC and need your help and support to run my single motor in X axis (Pul/Dir).
I bought Rhino 10kgcm Nema 23 motor with DM542 stepper driver and trying to drive with 24VDC 14.5Amps power supply and 5 axis optical isolated board from Rrmin (Chinese make).
I did the connections as per general guidelines provided on internet, Everything seems fine but motor is not running.
Please support to figure out what is wrong and how to correct it
Maverick
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Hi Friends,
Totally new to DIY-CNC and need your help and support to run my single motor in X axis (Pul/Dir).
I bought Rhino 10kgcm Nema 23 motor with DM542 stepper driver and trying to drive with 24VDC 14.5Amps power supply and 5 axis optical isolated board from Rrmin (Chinese make).
I did the connections as per general guidelines provided on internet, Everything seems fine but motor is not running.
Please support to figure out what is wrong and how to correct it
Maverick
Which Chinese controller board do you have (make and model) ?
Tweakie.
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Hi Friend,
There is no model number for board, I bought it from Amazon (Rrimin Mach3 CNC Stepping Motor Driver Interface Adapter Breakout Board +USB Cable)
I worked again last night and by tuning motor control, I got the motor running.
My next query is how to increase the speed of stepper motor? How kernel speed affects it.
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Kernel speed does NOT affect the stepper motor speed.
Cheers
Roger
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Thanx Roger, what other parameters/factors affect stepper speed.
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Usually, stepper speed is set by the F command.
Note however that Mach3 can hiccup over this: you may need to repeat the command the first time.
Cheers
Roger
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Thanx again for valuable knowledge.
Please explain me how to fine tune motor control.
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The Mach3Mill_1.84.pdf manual covers this fully. You will need to first calibrate the axis for movement.
Caution: while the manual does cover just about everything, it very often covers it just ONCE. You need to read the manual very carefully, and skip nothing.
Cheers
Roger
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Noted Roger.
I plan to do router table first and want to proceed to laser finally.
Reading the manual will take some time for me.