Machsupport Forum

Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: DAlgie on December 13, 2010, 07:18:00 PM

Title: Upgrade from 1.84 on lathe
Post by: DAlgie on December 13, 2010, 07:18:00 PM
Well I finally did the upgrade from 1.84 turn to 3.042. I backed up my XML and ran the instal file, and then rebooted. After I started it up again and got the silverblue screen set installed I tried to home the machine. When I power up the system and then click the E stop screen button off the lathe makes the fimilar noise of the steppers going into power and holding so I know that there is something right. All the tools and things were still there, all looks good. My problem is that the steppers don't actually move. The readouts show they are but I have no movement. I am not honestly sure of what ports and pins should be what, it's been years since I did anything real as far as maintainence to the thing, and because the steppers go into hold I think I have stuff right there, but no movement. I have attached my XML so anyone can loook and maybe let me know what's wrong? thanks.
Title: Re: Upgrade from 1.84 on lathe
Post by: Hood on December 14, 2010, 02:55:47 AM
Can you attach your original xml that you backed up. Dont see anything wrong with this one other than the motor pins are unusual. Not wrong as such as they are legitimate pins to use but normally people set them up in order.

Hood
Title: Re: Upgrade from 1.84 on lathe
Post by: RICH on December 14, 2010, 05:27:22 AM
DAlgie,
Assume that you have used the lathe before and it worked in 1.84.
Is that true?
RICH
Title: Re: Upgrade from 1.84 on lathe
Post by: DAlgie on December 14, 2010, 09:02:51 AM
Yes, lathe has worked flawlessly for 3 years, apart from the threading pitch problem. And that wasn't even a problem as I usually make both male and female threads for the mating parts. Have attached my original XML. Thanks.
Title: Re: Upgrade from 1.84 on lathe
Post by: Hood on December 14, 2010, 01:16:07 PM
XML looks similar, have you tried placing theold one in the folder and starting it from the loader?

Also check that the correct driver is installed, it could e the old driver is still there.
 Do you have a frequency showing on Diags page?
Hood
Title: Re: Upgrade from 1.84 on lathe
Post by: DAlgie on December 14, 2010, 05:00:04 PM
What would the name of the driver be, and in what folder? I don't seem to have or be able to find a frequency on the diagnostics page. Only thing, it is showing as running at 35Khtz, and I sort of recall it being set at 25Khtz before. I think I will have to go check the ports and pins and confirm that it is correct. Thanks guys.
Title: Re: Upgrade from 1.84 on lathe
Post by: Hood on December 14, 2010, 05:07:43 PM
Sorry was forgetting the Turn screen probably doesnt show the frequency, you could load a mill screen for viewing purposes. Also see what Time in Int is.
The driver version should be seen if you go to device manager and expand  the pulsing engine then right click and properties for the driver, on the driver tab you will see the date and version of the driver.
Hood
Title: Re: Upgrade from 1.84 on lathe
Post by: RICH on December 14, 2010, 05:51:47 PM
Here is what i suggest you try....
1. Save a copy of the Mach3. sys and Mach3.exe files which are located in the directory where  you installed the updated version of Mach.
2.Do a search of your hard drive for Mach3.exe and Mach3.sys ...........the search should only show one of each, if more, then delete all of them.
3. Go into the device manager and delete the Mach driver it is using.
4. Repeat step 2.
5. Put the copies you saved in step 1. back into the Mach directory
6. Run the driver test as it installs the driver
7. Go into device manager and confirm that the driver was installed.

Now, use the 1024 lathe screen set that comes with Mach instead of whatever you were using. Configure as necessary.

You should now have the correct driver installed and your eliminating any possibility of a screen problem.

Hood, Are the steps above correct as i am doing it from memory?
RICH

Title: Re: Upgrade from 1.84 on lathe
Post by: Hood on December 14, 2010, 06:21:29 PM
Hood, Are the steps above correct as i am doing it from memory?
RICH



Dont ask me, I cant remember anything ;D

Hood
Title: Re: Upgrade from 1.84 on lathe
Post by: RICH on December 14, 2010, 06:28:56 PM
Hood, just waite, you can only put so much junk in the trunk before it overflows and starts to show.  :D
RICH
Title: Re: Upgrade from 1.84 on lathe
Post by: Hood on December 14, 2010, 07:10:27 PM
Was going to reply but forgot what I was going to say ;D
Title: Re: Upgrade from 1.84 on lathe
Post by: DAlgie on December 14, 2010, 11:15:10 PM
Sorry was forgetting the Turn screen probably doesnt show the frequency, you could load a mill screen for viewing purposes. Also see what Time in Int is.
The driver version should be seen if you go to device manager and expand  the pulsing engine then right click and properties for the driver, on the driver tab you will see the date and version of the driver.
Hood
Looking in the device driver, date is 9/21/2008, version is 5.0.1.0 and shows no problems there. I checked the ports and pins and they are correct for my Sound logic breakout board. Tried another screen but it didnt make any difference. Diagnostic page shows nothing lit up except the index signal. Time in int. moves from 5.4 to 8.8 approx. Bummer.
Title: Re: Upgrade from 1.84 on lathe
Post by: Hood on December 15, 2010, 02:30:52 AM
That is an old driver, think the new one is 5.5 and the date will be year 2010, but thats just from memory and I have already stated what thats like ;D
Delete the driver from device manager then run the driver test and see if the new one gets installed, if it doesnt then you may need to delete the Mach folder and its contents (keeping xml etc) and install Mach again.
Hood
Title: Re: Upgrade from 1.84 on lathe
Post by: DAlgie on December 15, 2010, 10:52:55 AM
I deleted the driver and then reloaded 3.042 from the same download I had, rebooted and have the same thing now. I had downloaded that version of 3.42 quite awhile ago, just hadn't gotten around to updating it until now. One thing, when I power up the power supply and then hit the e stop off the machine does it's typical "Bonk" like it has powered the steppers, but I tried turning the Z axis ballscrew and I can, so it doesen't actually have the steppers in hold, which sort of makes sense I guess.

So, if I download version 3.042 again, will it have the right driver in the installer, or how does that work?

Thanks, Dave.
Title: Re: Upgrade from 1.84 on lathe
Post by: Hood on December 15, 2010, 01:55:27 PM
The $64K question is what is the actual version of 3.042 is it you have, it was just in the last 5 or 6 months probably later that the driver was updated for the threading so you need to make sure you have a version that is recent.
Hood
Title: Re: Upgrade from 1.84 on lathe
Post by: Hood on December 15, 2010, 02:00:34 PM
Just looked at the changelog and you need at least 3.042.037 to be sure  you have the threading fixed driver but best to go for the latest release which is 3.042.040


Hood
Title: Re: Upgrade from 1.84 on lathe
Post by: DAlgie on December 15, 2010, 02:49:32 PM
The version I have been loading is 3.042.033, so I will download a newer one.
Title: Re: Upgrade from 1.84 on lathe
Post by: DAlgie on December 15, 2010, 05:08:43 PM
I downloaded 3.042.040 and backed up my XML and loaded it over the old version. Did the reboot and tried it again, and same problem. Bummer. I looked at the device manager and it was the new driver, so don't know what to do now. I am heading to Cleveland tomorrow to pick up my Lagun CNC  mill so I won't be on here for a day, will be back at it after that. Thanks Hood.
Title: Re: Upgrade from 1.84 on lathe
Post by: Hood on December 15, 2010, 05:14:37 PM
Looks like you will need to get the scope out and see whats coming out the port. If no scope a voltmeter could be used but its not as good as it wont give you a true picture of the pulse, only  an indication that there is one.
Hood
Title: Re: Upgrade from 1.84 on lathe
Post by: RICH on December 15, 2010, 05:21:57 PM
One reason the steppers would engage "some" but not move is if you have inadequate amps going to them. That happens to me if i forget to select the correct resistor for my drive.
........but yours worked fine before........
If you haven't changed the wiring any, same drives, etc, I would follow the wiring path of one drive carefully and see if you can narrow down the culprit.

RICH
Title: Re: Upgrade from 1.84 on lathe
Post by: DAlgie on December 22, 2010, 10:37:42 AM
OK, after letting my lathe sit for a week and think about how it has wronged me and realise the error of it's ways I started it up again and it still doesen't get it. Actually I got my Lagun Allen bradley mill running and it's time to work on the lathe again. I rolled Windows XP back to an earlier time to just reload the old 1.84 version and guess what; it doesen't go either, same problem. Will try a couple of things now, need to open the drive up and see if the LEDs are lit for outputs etc.
Title: Re: Upgrade from 1.84 on lathe
Post by: DAlgie on December 29, 2010, 04:10:35 PM
Well the mill is down now with an X axis excess lag error so it's time to try to get the lathe running again. I looked at the step and direction LEDs on the Sound Logic breakout board and they light up for direction one way and not for the other, all OK there, and the step lights are dimly lit as you try to jog so I believe there are actually steps being sent to the steppers. Remember, I hear a 'bonk' sound from the motors when I flick off the E stop and similar when I turn it back on, so I think there is something going there. Have to try to remember more about what goes on with the breakout board, I don't get 5VDC on the third connection for the Gecko output on the BOB, so I don't know there. Thing is, all I did was update the Mach software to a newer version, never touched anything electrically on the machine, and it was working Ok before that.
Title: Re: Upgrade from 1.84 on lathe
Post by: Hood on December 29, 2010, 04:14:07 PM
Maybe your BOB requires an enable signal from Mach and its either come off or you dont have it set up.
Hood
Title: Re: Upgrade from 1.84 on lathe
Post by: DAlgie on December 29, 2010, 05:30:13 PM
Is there an enable setting in Mach I may have missed? I am impressed how the new version of mach used my XML, and I didn't have to do anything at all, it was all there from the start. However, maybe switching from such an old version, 1.84, to a new one, 3.42, might have new settings in it that the XML doesn't have in it's old code. Anything I could look at there you might think of?
Title: Re: Upgrade from 1.84 on lathe
Post by: DAlgie on December 29, 2010, 06:17:55 PM
Yay, it works!! I originally had the step and direction pulse in motor tuning set at 2, I bumped those to 5 and off it went. A more noticable 'bonk' when you power up the Geckos as well. I seemed to remember that you should keep those settings low if you can so I tried them at 3 and it didn't work so I went to 4 on them all and it was happy there. Strange how that would be different for an upgrade, Mach must have different pulsing somehow. Also noticed that when I home the machine, when it comes to the limit switches, the home off movement is sort of different, it homes off, then slows down, them moves a bit more before stopping.
Title: Re: Upgrade from 1.84 on lathe
Post by: Hood on December 29, 2010, 07:25:11 PM
Glad to hear you are going.
Regards the homing, what do you have set as a debounce interval on General Config page?
Hood
Title: Re: Upgrade from 1.84 on lathe
Post by: DAlgie on December 30, 2010, 10:44:40 AM
Have a debounce interval set at 300. Have odd backlash movement as well as the home off movement, as in the earlier post, it accelerates, then slows down, then accelerates again in a sort of two speed move. Once you get past that and stop jogging, and jog again in the same direction, it moves normally.
Title: Re: Upgrade from 1.84 on lathe
Post by: Hood on December 30, 2010, 10:52:36 AM
Its more than likely the backlash needing redone, as although I have never  used, it I believe there have been changes since the old version you had.

Hood
Title: Re: Upgrade from 1.84 on lathe
Post by: DAlgie on December 30, 2010, 01:01:20 PM
I checked the backlash and the same setting still seem to be right. Just does some odd things when jogging, does not seem to do that when in a program. Another problem now, the spindle speeds are wrong, it shows 167 rpm when it is doing 500, I went in and got rid of any other ranges and set the min and max the spindle will do, no difference. I tried changing the spindle debounce all directions and no difference there either. Spindle speeds would be my main problem now, can't do any threading till I fix that, which was the original reason for upgrading to this version in the first place. Thanks for hanging in there with me Hood.
Title: Re: Upgrade from 1.84 on lathe
Post by: Hood on December 30, 2010, 02:36:34 PM
Is it the spindle control or the spindle reading or both thats wrong? Are you using the Index input or the Timing input?
Hood
Title: Re: Upgrade from 1.84 on lathe
Post by: Hood on December 30, 2010, 02:37:31 PM
Oh and disabl;e backlash and see if that helps your other probs, it will at least let you know whether the backlash is the culprit and needs twaked.
Hood
Title: Re: Upgrade from 1.84 on lathe
Post by: DAlgie on December 30, 2010, 03:30:30 PM
Spindle is a fixed gearbox setting, 8 speeds, with one pulse per revolution. On the pulses per revolution, if I bring up the calibrate spindle page, it shows the pulses per revolution as 1, and it says "Zero if one per rev", and there is a box there with 1 in it. It won't let me change that to a zero for some reason. How do I change that to a zero as it should be?
Title: Re: Upgrade from 1.84 on lathe
Post by: Hood on December 30, 2010, 03:44:49 PM
Ok so do you call a M3 from Mach

Hood
Title: Re: Upgrade from 1.84 on lathe
Post by: DAlgie on December 30, 2010, 03:53:48 PM
Yes, Mach starts the spindle.
Title: Re: Upgrade from 1.84 on lathe
Post by: Hood on December 30, 2010, 03:55:06 PM
Ok  so not what I was thinking then, if you attach your xml I will have a look see if I can find a problem if you wish.
Hood
Title: Re: Upgrade from 1.84 on lathe
Post by: DAlgie on December 31, 2010, 09:52:10 AM
OK, XML duly attached, thanks Mr Hood.
Title: Re: Upgrade from 1.84 on lathe
Post by: Hood on December 31, 2010, 10:15:24 AM
Only thing I see that could be a problem is the Index debounce, I am sure however you said you had tried all sorts there.
From my experience(with the PP) it usually can only be set low, I used to use zero but may depend on your opto and wiring but I would think 5 or 10 max.

One other thing regards the backlash, do a search here, I think its Rich who usually advises on a rule he uses. Might be the shuttle on General config page needs changing.

Hood
Title: Re: Upgrade from 1.84 on lathe
Post by: Hood on December 31, 2010, 10:21:59 AM
Ok here it is
http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,16448.msg111218.html#msg111218

Hood
Title: Re: Upgrade from 1.84 on lathe
Post by: DAlgie on December 31, 2010, 02:13:29 PM
Worked perfect on the index debounce setting, even 10 there would screw it up, zero was what it needed, thanks mr Hood! I will look into the backlash wierd speed thing next, happy New Year!
Title: Re: Upgrade from 1.84 on lathe
Post by: Hood on December 31, 2010, 02:19:07 PM
Good news, hopefully the backlash settings Rich uses will sort you out :)
Hood