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Author Topic: "Generally" Speaking, Quoting CNC work.  (Read 10267 times)

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Re: "Generally" Speaking, Quoting CNC work.
« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2008, 06:32:39 PM »
RC,
   Another thing, When all your friends find out you have a cnc, you're going to hear this.
  "Hey Buddy, can you make this part for me?"  They seem to think you just show the machine a picture
 and it spits out the part. ( example)  Ed, can you make me a belt buckle with the marine insignia. Answer. Sure, but it'll
cost ya 500 bucks for programming and setup, and another 500 for machining. How many do you want?
Got the picture?
   Yes, I've been there and done that. It's not profitable doing things for friends.
Don't forget fixtures. need a fixture for a special job. Custumer eats the cost. The fixtures worth nothing to you without the job.

Ed
Ed VanEss

Offline RICH

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Re: "Generally" Speaking, Quoting CNC work.
« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2008, 07:45:12 PM »
Hmm....
Like others say, if your in buisness, you got to make money. The more the better. Time is money.
Go to the a doctor, he looks in your ear, one charge, touches your tummy, another charge, and then informs you your a new patient and there is another paper charge. Ask the oil repair man to come out, $60 an hour from wherever he is to your house & $120 an hour while he's there. Dentist fills one cavity , charge, looks at your gums, charge, evaluates your smile, charge. Good grief don't ask a professional for an opinion, charge.........Not one them feels guilty! Get the picture. Undertaker once told me that "money has no concience". Went to spelling teacher, charge. Got a haircut, ugly girl and crappy hair cut leaving hair long around ear so i come back in 3 weeks $30 ( 20 minutes worth of work )!

Now as a hobbiest I do stuff for nothing, lets see, I made two custom sets of mirrors for bikers, it took 22 hours for the first set and 12 for the second= 34 hours total time. But I got my whole house carpeted for wholesale price on the carpet and free installation plus two bathroom floors tiled for free. The second guy saved me $2000 on my house air conditioning system which I put in. The custom door knobs done for someone else got got the house air conditioning charged. So barttering can pay off, sometimes. But it doesn't get the kids teeth done or feed the little eye's of the hungry!

If your not CNC'd today I don't think your even on the playing field. The smartest thing you can do is find those that you can trust and talk. More importantly......LISTEN.......when they start talking.
RICH



Re: "Generally" Speaking, Quoting CNC work.
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2008, 09:05:07 PM »
I started with Mach and CNC as a hobby and just to see if I could do it....build a machine and teach myself (with this forum of course) how to run it. Sure was/is an amazing journey. Well, I guess I've come to the conclusion that I just might know enough about it to actually do something useful with it.
Thanks to you all.
All ears,
RC

Offline jimpinder

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Re: "Generally" Speaking, Quoting CNC work.
« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2008, 04:08:26 AM »
I'm in the same boat as Overloaded. I had a lathe/milling machine and converted it to CNC  as part of my retirement hobby - making miniature railway equipment. I could do with a lathe that I could program to do the reptetive cutting (leaving me free to do something else) and attend to it only for the final acurate cuts. As it is, with Mach, I got both, any problems are with the lathe, not Mach.

The building and development of the CNC lathe has been a pleasure and quite absorbing, and in the scheme of things, not too expensive. I am prepared to "write off" the cost of it (and the time) as an education to me.

We now come to "making it pay". It depends on what your aspirations are. I would love to buy some of the CAD CAM programs everybody keeps talking about, and electronics being another of my hobbies, I would love a circuit board cutiing program - but - BLESS ME - people want money for them. Some has to pay.

If you are turning to the workshop for someone else, then you must charge by the hour for the time you put in for them and I am comfortable with £20 per hour - this is below the going rate in UK for someones time - but I am happy with it. Providing you are satisfied that you have worked efficiently (although not everybody bothers about that) then this provides a base for charging. Yes - don't forget programing time - my father-in-law could not understand why I had to spend a couple of hours in my office, prior to turning on the lathe, because in his day they reached for the hand saw and got on with it.

On top of that, you must ask for some costs for wear and tear - depreciation in business terms - because your machine will need replacement at some time - and repairing before that (I've already blown one set of drivers). Generally in business this is costed at 20% of the value of assetts (per annum) for tax purposes - so how much do you want to charge your customers for this - it should be something - say a weeks depreciation? because if you're are having to work, it has spolied the week. :D

On top of that there is improvement - there is always someway to improve what you are doing - better program, (not Mach), better anything - a bit difficult to quantify unless you have something in mind ( or a contigency fund).

And last, but by no means least - add 50% for being able to do it. You taught yourself, you built the machine, and the customer would not have come if he could have done it himself. A panel beater who makes my railway bodies (and charges well for them) suddenly said, one day, "Jim, you've got a CNC lathe, haven't you" - Ah, I thought ,pay back time.

At the end of the day - he can only say No - you haven't lost anything, and you can justify what you are asking (to yourself, if nobody else).

Above all - Be Happy With It   ;D ;D :'(





Not me driving the engine - I'm better looking.

Offline josh

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Re: "Generally" Speaking, Quoting CNC work.
« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2008, 03:04:00 PM »
I have to say this has been a good topic
I must say once you have reached a certain level of knowledge how do you know its time to go work for yourself.
and also I say to myself if my boss made it (without the internet and many sites like this when you ask for help people are always helping with thing you dont even know how to do) I would think its alot easier to work for yourself  than it was before.
I have a question how do you guys see the machining and fabrication indrusty going is there still hope for a joung guy like me to go out there and start a shop.
Re: "Generally" Speaking, Quoting CNC work.
« Reply #15 on: September 12, 2008, 04:03:44 PM »
It doesn't necessarily depend on the resources that you have, your competition has the same. That levels the playing field there. It's also highly dependent on what you have inside. Intestinal fortitude. To REALLY compete though is tough, this is one industry that has a high overhead.
I think there's plenty work out there for all. My first mistake was to bite off more than I could chew. If you are fortunate, you won't need to advertise. Your work will speak for itself.
RC
Re: "Generally" Speaking, Quoting CNC work.
« Reply #16 on: September 12, 2008, 04:06:42 PM »
Josh.
   A lot depends on your location, and what do you really know.  do you have a fully equipped machine shop?
Welding equipment for fab work? Mig, Tig, cutting equipment. Only you know, and can make the decision.
Check around your area and see what work is available, and , can you do it. I'M in Wisconsin, when I ran my shop,
 I had customers from New york, Texas, California. I only did custom and one off , and prototype jobs. You have to have the equipment and the tooling,
And just the tooling is a big investment. You also need some form of cad/cam programs. which can be costly.
Are there any bigger shops in your area that farm out some jobs?
Hope this helps in your decision. It's all up to you.

Ed V
Ed VanEss

Offline josh

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Re: "Generally" Speaking, Quoting CNC work.
« Reply #17 on: September 13, 2008, 08:12:49 PM »
hey ED
Is there really any money in the protype work  I would think there would be more in the production.
JOSH
Re: "Generally" Speaking, Quoting CNC work.
« Reply #18 on: September 13, 2008, 09:25:12 PM »
Josh,
  Yes. there is more money in production. Prototype work I always charged $50.00 an hour. Was all time and material.
But a lot more interesting. Production jobs can be sicking, looking at the same parts every day. But that all depends on the job quanitys.
Some proto job can take a month or more to do , depending on whatever it is.
What ever you decide or do, I wish you lots of luck.

Ed V

Ed VanEss

Offline KTM

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Re: "Generally" Speaking, Quoting CNC work.
« Reply #19 on: September 14, 2008, 10:50:08 AM »
Hi Jim

Your prayers have been answered,  ;D , there is a free PCB program with a mach post processor (limited to 250 points I think) for hobby use.

 link: www.diptrace.com

Regards

KTM