Author Topic: Photos of webcam scanner. ( no laughing.. :) )  (Read 49259 times)

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Offline GAWnCA

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Re: Photos of webcam scanner. ( no laughing.. :) )
« Reply #20 on: December 16, 2007, 12:37:12 PM »
Art,

That is just too cool.  I already have all the VCarve software.  So it should be a snap when I figure it all out.  :D

Offline irk3

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Re: Photos of webcam scanner. ( no laughing.. :) )
« Reply #21 on: April 07, 2008, 09:25:32 AM »
Hi Art, I  recently purchaces same machine as yours (SHG0609) , going to make a video scanner, got a line laser and A4Tech cam today, hope to share results with you, please keep us updated wit your results, I like your KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) way of doing things.

Offline irk3

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Re: Photos of webcam scanner. ( no laughing.. :) )
« Reply #22 on: April 07, 2008, 09:27:04 AM »
Hi Art, I  recently purchaces same machine as yours (SHG0609) , going to make a video scanner, got a line laser and A4Tech cam today, hope to share results with you, please keep us updated wit your results, I like your KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) way of doing things.

Offline K3HTK

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Re: Photos of webcam scanner. ( no laughing.. :) )
« Reply #23 on: April 10, 2008, 01:45:30 PM »
Hello! I have been trying to accomplish the same setup but have not had much success....

I have a laser line generator and a Creative Web Cam and seem to get the Square Wave image looking like Art's nd calibrate on a 1 inch block of wood but when I do a scan, I am not seeing anything in the MachCloud program. Sometimes I see various dots (points) but nothing that resembles an image of anything recognizable anyway.... Ha Ha!

What webcam and laser is Art using for this? Maybe I should get exactly what he has and then try just to be sure..... Any ideas? I can post pics of my setup if that would help.

Thanks!

Ed


Offline ART

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Re: Photos of webcam scanner. ( no laughing.. :) )
« Reply #24 on: April 10, 2008, 01:57:41 PM »
Hi:
 Are you scanning in the Y dimension only? Send me a point cloud if you like , Ill see if I can see what the trouble may be..

Art

Offline K3HTK

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Re: Photos of webcam scanner. ( no laughing.. :) )
« Reply #25 on: April 10, 2008, 02:11:54 PM »
Yeah, I am scanning the Y axis only... I will try again this evening and send you my point cloud... Thanks Art! I appreciate it.... :)

-Ed-

Offline sshneider

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Re: Photos of webcam scanner. ( no laughing.. :) )
« Reply #26 on: April 10, 2008, 09:40:58 PM »
Hey All,

I too have been spending some time of late trying to figure out the whole Webcam Laser Video probing process.  I must admit that with no prior digitizing/probing experience combined with the relative infancy state that the Plug in and viewer are in it has been most challenging.

I don’t mean to “Hijack” this thread but since it seems it is a popular ‘view’ it seemed the appropriate place to do it. 

Got my laser (the cheapie $4.50 one that was recommended on the other thread).  It says it’s a 3.2VDC but, my Power supply is only 3VDC.  All seems OK- I have a red line so I guess it’s OKee Dokee.  If not could someone let me know?

The first camera I tried was a nice Logitech.  I think it cost me around $60.  With the default settings that the fancy schmancy driver software uses (i.e. auto exposure/ auto white balance, color correction, anti flicker, etc) I could not get a square wave to save my life.  After monkey-ing around with manual settings for about an hour I finally managed to get something that resembled a square wave. 

Scans with this Logitech camera didn’t yield any encouraging results.  Until, I changed the “Ignore less than parameter” to -100 (as Art had suggested to ‘aolshove’ in the alpha release of point generator thread).  While I was able to FINALLY get data into the computer and view it in Mach Cloud-(WHOOOOO HOOOOO!!!))  ;D, I had points on the Zero plane.  I agree with Art, those points are annoying.

So, I got another myself another Webcam-  Cheap P.O.S. $15 version (I think they had it at Big Lots-LOL).  Without any fancy settings software, the camera worked great right out of the box.  Scans were the same with the lights on or off.  This was a HUGE step forward.  So, I would have to say that the type of camera and driver software that you use seems to play a large (if not huge) role in the acquisition of data. It would be cool if the Logitech (or any camera) settings utility actually had some psychedelic color/intensity/saturations effects filter knobs that would allow you to tweak up the laser/square wave gain but alas, this is but a dream (for now).

So, with the camera out of the way (for a moment), there are those mysterious  settings on the Plug-in.  Just what does all of that stuff do?  Cube size is obvious. My cube is 1.5” so I set it for 1.50.   But what is Cam FOV.  OK, I know it stands for Field of view but, expressed in what units? Inches/Degrees.  Is the field horizontal, vertical or diagonal?  I have tried messing around with it (FOV), to get it to change the height value to equal the distance from the camera to the TOP of the cube.  Is that right?  Or, is  it to the bottom of the cube otherwise known as the table surface/zero point?   Hmmmmm,  ??? which is it?

On the subject of alignment and such.  I was wondering where the best place for my Z axis/camera angle?  High Z hovering directly above my subject matter or Lower and angled  45 Deg downward.  Another Hmmmmm?  Have not yet been able to experiment with this yet as my current spring clamp/electrical tape camera set up doesn’t give a lot of pan/tilt flexibility in this area  ;).  I’m gonna work on that and get back to ya.  Perhaps others can offer some insight here?

I set my feed rate @ 75 (IPM).  Default comes up @ 500.  That seemed kind of high to me but then I though maybe that’s how Art had it set for his machine running in MM.  After a few scans I started playing with feed rate and it doesn’t seem to change things that much- either how fast the machine scans- nor the quality of the scans.  It does effect how fast the machine Re-Zeros itself after the scan is finished though.  Not really sure about the feed rate will help/hurt.  Does a slower feed rate yield better results (i.e. smoother scans) or just take more time?  Yet another Hmmmmm.  ???

I stepped the Y at .039 (Inches).  Default I think = 1 (again probably 1mm-but that’s on that ‘crazy’ other measurement system so I use 'our' systems convenient  ::) # .04”.  Starting out small I’ve been scanning a 4” to 10” area.  The scans usually take about 15-30 seconds to complete.  At first I scanned only in Y then I tried scanning in both Y AND X but when I open the clouds in MachCloud, I get a message that says, “Use left/right arrows to register the striped cloud, press enter when done”.  I press the arrow keys but nothing happens, the mouse doesn’t seem to do anything- so, what’s a guy to do?  I press ‘Enter’ (sometimes multiple times and more points keep appearing.  The cloud is there but I’m left wondering if I missed something or is that feature just not enabled yet? 

I have tried scanning a bunch of different things and had varied results.  Some things that I thought looked great during the scan, don’t generate a good point cloud at all.  Others that I thought wouldn’t scan well, actually produce some good results.  It’s kinda weird and I wish I could figure it all out  ???.

I played around with the “Ignore” setting a little but I don’t really understand what it is that I am ignoring.  Is this telling the computer if something is lower than this value then it won’t record it?  For example, if I had a 2” cube on my table and said Ignore 1.0 then would I get a scan of just the top 1” of my cube?  I’m not clear on this one- anyone have the answer on how this works?

Here are 3 scans that I did only in the Y axis.  Sorry it's nothing too exciting, I'll try to find some more interesting subject matter.   I would rate the scans “OK” but I think that they are no where near the resolution that Art was able to get on the scans of his hands. 

1. The trpzd woodblock was 1st.  Not too shabby but the points are all really close to each other almost forming a line.  When I try to mesh/surface the surface is wavy and smooth and flat like the original block.  Is this the scan or something you tweak in Rhino?

2. Since the Vacuum nozzle was black, I thought might not scan well.  I was happily surprised to bring up the point cloud.  It seems to lack Z depth, as if something got cutoff/pruned down there.  Maybe this is another setting/camera angle/height thing?  Any advice on this anyone?

3. Finally the wedge of foam.  After a few adjustments of the “Ignore Z” settings I was able to get it.  Again, this one seems like I have too many points lined up in rows and it gives a distorted wavy look to the cloud even though the subject is flat and smooth.

I suppose spending a little time using the touch probe method of digitizing would be enlightening and also provide some basis of speed/quality comparison.  The MACH3/laser webcam digitizing concept is so promising!  I hope that its development matures rapidly as I think MANY would benefit from integrating this process.

I feel I am close but it seems my lack of experience is keeping me from crossing that frontier into the land of clear scans.  Arrrg-I love this plugin! I hate this plugin! Maybe some of  the dudes who have some more experience, knowledge or even luck would chime it would help me to lose the “hate” part.   I have more questions and comments but I think this is a good place to stop for now. 

Thanks and Regards,
Sid
« Last Edit: April 10, 2008, 09:44:28 PM by sshneider »

Offline sshneider

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Re: Photos of webcam scanner. ( no laughing.. :) )
« Reply #27 on: April 10, 2008, 09:42:10 PM »
Ooops,  only allowed 4 attachments per message.  Here are the last 2 pix.

Sid

Offline ART

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Re: Photos of webcam scanner. ( no laughing.. :) )
« Reply #28 on: April 10, 2008, 10:20:58 PM »
Hi:

 >> Im working in LazyTurn, and once I get toolpaths, Ill redo the data aquisition plugin for probing, needs work depending on camera I think, but heres some explanations.. ( Your photos dont look too bad, do they mesh alright if you select a ball mesh in MachCloud?

 The first camera I tried was a nice Logitech.  I think it cost me around $60.  With the default settings that the fancy schmancy driver software uses (i.e. auto exposure/ auto white balance, color correction, anti flicker, etc) I could not get a square wave to save my life.  After monkey-ing around with manual settings for about an hour I finally managed to get something that resembled a square wave.

 >>The square wave is seen becuase the Y of the line changes in the image, so if you turn off the lights in the room it can really help, flourecents give a infra red out as well, so they can mess up line discrimination. Just a suggestion..

Scans with this Logitech camera didn’t yield any encouraging results.  Until, I changed the “Ignore less than parameter” to -100 (as Art had suggested to ‘aolshove’ in the alpha release of point generator thread).  While I was able to FINALLY get data into the computer and view it in Mach Cloud-(WHOOOOO HOOOOO!!!))  , I had points on the Zero plane.  I agree with Art, those points are annoying.

>> Thats what ignore does, it ignore any Y less than the set amount. so play with that to get rid of the zero plane points..

So, I got another myself another Webcam-  Cheap P.O.S. $15 version (I think they had it at Big Lots-LOL).  Without any fancy settings software, the camera worked great right out of the box.  Scans were the same with the lights on or off.  This was a HUGE step forward.  So, I would have to say that the type of camera and driver software that you use seems to play a large (if not huge) role in the acquisition of data. It would be cool if the Logitech (or any camera) settings utility actually had some psychedelic color/intensity/saturations effects filter knobs that would allow you to tweak up the laser/square wave gain but alas, this is but a dream (for now).

>> Definitiely, my camera isnt great, but its not bad at doign organic 3d shapes like my hand..

So, with the camera out of the way (for a moment), there are those mysterious  settings on the Plug-in.  Just what does all of that stuff do?  Cube size is obvious. My cube is 1.5” so I set it for 1.50.   But what is Cam FOV.  OK, I know it stands for Field of view but, expressed in what units? Inches/Degrees.  Is the field horizontal, vertical or diagonal?  I have tried messing around with it (FOV), to get it to change the height value to equal the distance from the camera to the TOP of the cube.  Is that right?  Or, is  it to the bottom of the cube otherwise known as the table surface/zero point?   Hmmmmm,   which is it?

>>FOV is the degrees of the FOV in the X dimension, typically abotu 45 - 70 degrees depending on the camera.. The software tries to figure it out , but thats where work is needed, false readings are common in calibration. Keep calibration till the angle is about 50-70 degrees for a logitec. Yes, you can futz till the heght is rigth as well. I need to figure a more clever way to do all that.

On the subject of alignment and such.  I was wondering where the best place for my Z axis/camera angle?  High Z hovering directly above my subject matter or Lower and angled  45 Deg downward.  Another Hmmmmm?  Have not yet been able to experiment with this yet as my current spring clamp/electrical tape camera set up doesn’t give a lot of pan/tilt flexibility in this area  .  I’m gonna work on that and get back to ya.  Perhaps others can offer some insight here?

>>My Z is about 2-3" above the item, straigth down, laser about 45 degrees into the bottom 1/4 of the feild..

I set my feed rate @ 75 (IPM).  Default comes up @ 500.  That seemed kind of high to me but then I though maybe that’s how Art had it set for his machine running in MM.  After a few scans I started playing with feed rate and it doesn’t seem to change things that much- either how fast the machine scans- nor the quality of the scans.  It does effect how fast the machine Re-Zeros itself after the scan is finished though.  Not really sure about the feed rate will help/hurt.  Does a slower feed rate yield better results (i.e. smoother scans) or just take more time?  Yet another Hmmmmm. 

>> Feedrate wont matter much since its doing lots of small moves, never has time to get to full speed .. so ignore feedrate, I use metric, so 500 is default.

I stepped the Y at .039 (Inches).  Default I think = 1 (again probably 1mm-but that’s on that ‘crazy’ other measurement system so I use 'our' systems convenient   # .04”.  Starting out small I’ve been scanning a 4” to 10” area.  The scans usually take about 15-30 seconds to complete.  At first I scanned only in Y then I tried scanning in both Y AND X but when I open the clouds in MachCloud, I get a message that says, “Use left/right arrows to register the striped cloud, press enter when done”.  I press the arrow keys but nothing happens, the mouse doesn’t seem to do anything- so, what’s a guy to do?  I press ‘Enter’ (sometimes multiple times and more points keep appearing.  The cloud is there but I’m left wondering if I missed something or is that feature just not enabled yet? 

>> Yup, again metric, use about .05 for a stepover..  Just scan in Y for now, the X scan get striped, so MAchCloud uses a manual registration, again I need to clean that up..unless you know it, striping is not intuitive..

I have tried scanning a bunch of different things and had varied results.  Some things that I thought looked great during the scan, don’t generate a good point cloud at all.  Others that I thought wouldn’t scan well, actually produce some good results.  It’s kinda weird and I wish I could figure it all out  .

>> It IS hit and miss somewhat , its all tuned to my camera, so hard to duplicate what I do.. I use a logictec fusion.

I played around with the “Ignore” setting a little but I don’t really understand what it is that I am ignoring.  Is this telling the computer if something is lower than this value then it won’t record it?  For example, if I had a 2” cube on my table and said Ignore 1.0 then would I get a scan of just the top 1” of my cube?  I’m not clear on this one- anyone have the answer on how this works?

>>Zero Pkane is the ignore, it means ignore any lines less than.. ********* mm's.. ( again, your shoudl be set to inches equivalent..)

Here are 3 scans that I did only in the Y axis.  Sorry it's nothing too exciting, I'll try to find some more interesting subject matter.   I would rate the scans “OK” but I think that they are no where near the resolution that Art was able to get on the scans of his hands. 

>>Not bad really, getting close, they shouild mesh..

1. The trpzd woodblock was 1st.  Not too shabby but the points are all really close to each other almost forming a line.  When I try to mesh/surface the surface is wavy and smooth and flat like the original block.  Is this the scan or something you tweak in Rhino?

>> Use Ball mesh with a ball about 5mm or inch equivalent..

2. Since the Vacuum nozzle was black, I thought might not scan well.  I was happily surprised to bring up the point cloud.  It seems to lack Z depth, as if something got cutoff/pruned down there.  Maybe this is another setting/camera angle/height thing?  Any advice on this anyone?

>> Thats not too bad, but its only seeing from on top, so side data is missing, its what the X scan is supposed to fill in..

 I suppose spending a little time using the touch probe method of digitizing would be enlightening and also provide some basis of speed/quality comparison.  The MACH3/laser webcam digitizing concept is so promising!  I hope that its development matures rapidly as I think MANY would benefit from integrating this process.

>>Wont be real quick , its all R&D, but Ill see what I can do. :)

I feel I am close but it seems my lack of experience is keeping me from crossing that frontier into the land of clear scans.  Arrrg-I love this plugin! I hate this plugin! Maybe some of  the dudes who have some more experience, knowledge or even luck would chime it would help me to lose the “hate” part.   I have more questions and comments but I think this is a good place to stop for now. 

>>Me too, I hate it and love it. Hopefully, it will show more promise in future..

Thanks
Art

Offline sshneider

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Re: Photos of webcam scanner. ( no laughing.. :) )
« Reply #29 on: April 11, 2008, 12:46:52 AM »
Hey Art,

Thanks for the fast reply!  Things make more sense now. I am re-inspired to keep tinkering around to see if I can perfect (uh well... refine) my scans.  I am going to try re-aligning my camera/laser according to what you are doing and then rescan and see what happens.

I also need to mess around with the features on Mach Cloud- but that's for another thread  ;)

Thanks again and Good Luck and Godspeed with all of that Lazy Turn toolpath stuff.  I'm not really that much of a lathe man myself- it makes me dizzy to watch all of that spinning around action  ;D.

Regards,
Sid