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Re: just bought a little baby cnc 280mm square davinci style thing
« Reply #20 on: January 31, 2023, 03:10:19 PM »
Hi.
That is an RS232 breakout board, it may plug into the drives and allow you to hook up some wires but you still need to know the pinout
of the plug....and that is Berger Lahr specific.

If you've already bought two phase steppers and driver then just forget the 5 phase stuff.

You will need a motion controller like an ESS and a breakout board. Make some decisions around those components.

Craig
'I enjoy sex at 73.....I live at 71 so its not too far to walk.'

Offline nobby

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Re: just bought a little baby cnc 280mm square davinci style thing
« Reply #21 on: January 31, 2023, 03:29:48 PM »
what is the real kick in the pantaloons is
I had three sets of panasonic minas a4 200w motor and drives

the motors share this machines 50mm mounting and bore - its the exact same, I originally thought they were a servo motor when i measured them as nema 23 is 56mm on centres

anyways

i sold them years ago, but I might treat myself

then it will be
bolt on botors
connect to drives
connect controller to drives

vroom vroom

does anyone bother with for example 200w little servos and drives on a tiddly machine

there is no information on 200w panasonic minas motors and drives used in hobby cnc
or mitsuboshi
or yaskawa

shame really
ok so a set of motors and drives is 500 odd - used
thast not out of this world

....................................................................

no, sod that
3 nema 23's 41mm long 8 wire bipolar £21
3 3a stepper drivers £27
one 24v 10 a psu £30

total 78

3 panasonic minas a5 200w servo motors and drives £600 - 700
hmm

edit
- not to self
DO NOT BUY panasonic minas a5 200w servo drive part number
MADHT1507
DO NOT buy panasonic minas a5 motor 200w part number
MHMD022   G1U
« Last Edit: January 31, 2023, 03:44:47 PM by nobby »
Re: just bought a little baby cnc 280mm square davinci style thing
« Reply #22 on: January 31, 2023, 03:52:20 PM »
Hi,

Quote
does anyone bother with for example 200w little servos and drives on a tiddly machine

there is no information on 200w panasonic minas motors and drives used in hobby cnc
or mitsuboshi
or yaskawa

The problem is cost....all of those will cost well over $500 each. I use Delta servos which are a Taiwanese brand made in China,
good quality, performance, support and free set-up and tuning software at fair prices. The 200W servo is believe it or not costs
more than a 400W servo, they are both 60mm square, but the 400W being that much more popular is cheaper:

https://www.fasttobuy.com/220v-127nm-ac-servo-motor-drive-kits-400w-delta-servo-motor-3000rpm-60mm-cnc-machinery-motion-control_p28069.html

The same company (fast-to-buy) sell Yaskawa, Mitsubishi, Panasonic, Delta and their own in house brand ToAuto. Check out the prices.
ToAuto is easily the cheapest and I have no reason to doubt the quality or performance but they have no set-up and tuning software, and if you've never
set up servos you'll really want that, no matter the extra cost.

Craig
'I enjoy sex at 73.....I live at 71 so its not too far to walk.'

Offline nobby

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Re: just bought a little baby cnc 280mm square davinci style thing
« Reply #23 on: January 31, 2023, 04:17:46 PM »
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/144922498613?epid=1308030908&hash=item21be0dd635:g:RyoAAOSwnvpjxMsO&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAoC34NrmijXfFv%2F2odS4evevGNNXiuvMwUjyRy2%2BbWhYvuremePCmkXOiFHmJwGVSdMA1UW4PXFD1xlZdnHYFNCUn87j5qmzl2nKw%2BvhS4MS7%2B53lquZP2UDrwCgJo5IkcEDnF28z8wQlHBBjgzIbZ8eWyg0N6s3FZVlFX8FOIjuHQBDW3%2B8Uskom3lqcC0JRGQcapHXV8Vq7sVdrQyzbOsk%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR_aM8prBYQ

yes i shall do the cheap stepper motors 4 phase bi polar parrallel and the cheap drivers to get it going
then search for a set of three of the above

make sure they all work off the machine and swap them in.

what I mean is..... is that an offer of help regards the actual connection and setting up of the drives and the tuning
I think thast what stopped me fitting the minas a4 set i had to my last machine, it was all a bit too specialist
Re: just bought a little baby cnc 280mm square davinci style thing
« Reply #24 on: January 31, 2023, 04:31:01 PM »
Hi,

Quote
setting up of the drives and the tuning
I think thast what stopped me fitting the minas a4 set i had to my last machine, it was all a bit too specialist

Yes, setting up servos if you've not done it before is not easy. As it turns out all AC servos are broadly similar. If you know how to set up a Yaskawa then you'll
be able to adapt that to Mitsubishi say. The trick is therefore to find a brand that you can gain that familiarity, and in my case its Delta.

I had quite a battle wiring up the first ones....now it takes under an hour. In particular I have a little comm gadget ($68USD) that you plug into the drive and your PC
to set up all the parameters. There'll be over 400 of them in most modern AC servos, so having setup software is a godsend, otherwise you have to program them
by pushing buttons like a microwave, very tedious and error prone.

You still have to make some decisions on a motion controller and breakout board. That's going to soak up a lot more money than your steppers, even if
not quite as much as a set of three servos.

Craig
'I enjoy sex at 73.....I live at 71 so its not too far to walk.'

Offline nobby

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Re: just bought a little baby cnc 280mm square davinci style thing
« Reply #25 on: January 31, 2023, 04:47:09 PM »
ahh
so what i really need to look into is the release dates of for exampl
200w panasonic systems
yaskawa sets
and mitsubishi
mitsu for example
Mitsubishi HC-MFS23 200W AC Servo Motor
gate on the box
2015

thats not ancient.........
find the matching drive to the hc-mfs23
which is a
Mitsubishi MR-J2-20B Servo Drive
then go - no used ones, move on.....
etc

yaskawa
Yaskawa SGM-02A312 200w motor    SGDA-02AP fm 200w driver




« Last Edit: January 31, 2023, 05:03:14 PM by nobby »
Re: just bought a little baby cnc 280mm square davinci style thing
« Reply #26 on: January 31, 2023, 05:08:29 PM »
Hi,
I would not go for second hand, or rather its not second hand but where you have to mix and match drives. If you don't know
anything about servos you are letting yourself in for a world of hurt......dont do it.

Even the 200W ToAuto ones in the Fast-to-Buy listing at $248USD are brand new and complete, with cables etc would be better. You don't have to concern yourself
adapting one to the other, they are matched.

I would recommend the 400W Delta B2's at $398USD each,  for the quality of the documentation but mainly for the set-up software,
I gaurantee you'll come to appreciate it. Many of the other brands you have to buy the software. You might get it free if you buy new from the distributor
but if you buy second hand you'll have to pay. I bought a second hand 1.8kW Allen Bradley servo and drive. Cost $900NZD delivered which was pretty good.
Then I had to make and/or buy the cables, another $350NZD and then buy the setup software....and you had to, you cannot program the drives without it for another $200NZD.
I did get the servo to work and have been using it on and off for four years as a spindle motor....and good at it it is. As it turns out I could have bought a new 2kW Delta B2
for less.....so you live and learn.

Now that I have some familiarity with servos I would be prepared to take a few extra risks but its hard to beat a servo and its manufacturer supplied drive.

Craig
'I enjoy sex at 73.....I live at 71 so its not too far to walk.'

Offline nobby

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Re: just bought a little baby cnc 280mm square davinci style thing
« Reply #27 on: February 01, 2023, 03:39:49 PM »
smartdrive nema 23 39mm long 3a

data sheet for SMR230-042-G-FN
https://www.datasheetarchive.com/whats_new/6f20340ee63441d8b2700e76c7e14d8e.html


8 WIRE BIPOLAR PARALLEL

A+ BLACK + WHITE / ORANGE STRIPE
A- ORANGE + WHITE / BLACK STRIPE
B+ REDV+ WHITE / YELLOW STRIPE
B-  YELLOW + WHITE / RED STRIPE

CHECK ME HOMEWORK PLEASE
THANSK

£6.95 EACH FREE DELIVERY, A MERE ONE POUND MORE FOR A MOTOR THAN THE BLUM COUPLINGS......

caps lock off







Offline nobby

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Re: just bought a little baby cnc 280mm square davinci style thing
« Reply #28 on: February 12, 2023, 01:41:25 PM »
spindle is a
maxon dc motor 145354

5 wires coming from it
black =       chassis ground
white  =   + positive motor ?
brown =     - negative motor?
green =     + positive hall effect?
yellow =     - negative hall effect?


the motor power is the outer
the hall sensor speed sensor is the inner?















« Last Edit: February 12, 2023, 01:57:07 PM by nobby »
Re: just bought a little baby cnc 280mm square davinci style thing
« Reply #29 on: February 12, 2023, 02:21:46 PM »
Hi,
Yes, I agree with your Brown and White assignments, Those I would expect to be Motor+ and Motor-.

The two wires for the Hall sensor I dis agree with. Firstly Hall sensors require three wires, a positive and negative supply, and a signal output wire.
Secondly the motor looks to have two wires for DC input, if this were a brushless motor there would be three, so my estimation is that this is
a brushed DC motor.

If that assumption is correct then I would guess the two remaining wires are actually a tacho-generator not Hall senors at all.

Take a multimeter, or better a Kelvin Bridge and measure the resistance between the Brown and White wires. I'd expect to see armature resistance
say 1 Ohm. Then measure between Yellow and Green, if its a tacho generator I would expect to see several hundred Ohms at least.

Craig
'I enjoy sex at 73.....I live at 71 so its not too far to walk.'