Hello Guest it is November 20, 2019, 12:04:22 AM

Author Topic: V2.75 ready for test  (Read 12126 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: V2.75 ready for test
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2007, 11:19:04 AM »
I just modified the first topic to replace the Newfangled.zip. This new version now handles the full 255 entries in the tool table, skipping over those that have a zero dia tool. Still no description, but Art has promised a function for the next Mach version.

vmax549

*
Re: V2.75 ready for test
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2007, 03:23:36 PM »
Ron would it be possible to list ALL tool table entries?? Normally we do not enter in the tool diam for Drills,taps,boring heads,etc but we still need to see them for possible use in the wizards.

Thanks (;-) TP

vmax549

*
Re: V2.75 ready for test
« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2007, 08:37:03 PM »
Ron the update works well . With the tool desc applied at least you can see what you have loaded. I still worry about inputting a tool number then changing the dia separately. I see a disasster coming up with the wizard thinking one thing and Mach another. I have seen this happen when somone changed out the tool but did not update the tool table(ME)

(;-) TP

vmax549

*
Re: V2.75 ready for test
« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2007, 08:39:03 PM »
Ron, would it be possible to print out a project summary that listed all the important info including the tool#/size  required for the total project?? THat way you would have a list of all the things needed to start the project including a tool# list so you can update the tool table if needed.

The old way was to start with an empty tool table and update it before running the file. Then when done empty the table back out. Pretty much fail safe that way was.

Just a thought, (;-)TP
« Last Edit: October 26, 2007, 08:41:37 PM by vmax549 »
Re: V2.75 ready for test
« Reply #14 on: October 26, 2007, 09:11:23 PM »
Art has promised a new VB function that can read the description from the tool table, so when that happens I should be able to make this look much better.

I could list the entire 255 entries of the tool table in the list box, but that might  make things very slow, and much harder to read. This whole tool table thing was supposed to make entry SIMPLE not more difficult.

Obviously a wizard cannot know that the operator has screwed up the tool table. If you use tool tables I suggest you do it VERY carefully.

I suspect most use of the wizards is for simple, one-off jobs by guys that dont even use the tool table. I have never used it on my mill, I had to fill one in so I could test this code.

I have been adding more comments to the Gcode as I work on the wizards. I intend to make each one write all its major parameters at tehtop of each operation. Its good documentation and it helps me debug.

I am not about to try to make this poor VB script system try to print sumary data. It is an interesting thought to create a separate file with just the wizard input data.

vmax549

*
Re: V2.75 ready for test
« Reply #15 on: October 27, 2007, 07:52:59 AM »
Hi Ron , conversational programming it not just for a few simple projects. It is a modern programming interface that is used widely in the machine tool world. Pretty much the wave of the present and future. Best to get on board the train NOW. You have to think beyond a few newbies trying to figure Gcode programming out(;-)

To make it a best seller you will have to cater to both the beginner as well as the seasoned pro.

If you want tool tables to be SIMPLE you have to treat them that way. Just display the entire tool table and leave it up to the programmer on how best to implement them. I just loaded up the entire 255 entries as a test, looks fine from here.

I don't have problems using the tools tables they can be a handy tool. BUT just like using an ATC you just have to make sure they are loaded correctly(;-)

The empty dia trick is used a lot by people that use the tables as a programming TOOL.

So if you can write the summary to the Gcode, why not give the option to send it to a printer?????

""It is an interesting thought to create a separate file with just the wizard input data. """ NOW YOU ARE THINKING, that is the summary data you need to be able to print(;-). Tool data, feeds,speeds,ETC,anything that can be a reference to someone that has NEVER seen the project before having to run it.(;-)  We used to get handed jobs all the time that we personally had never run before. THe summary allowed us to verify the setup BEFORE running the code.

 Each project we do that is not CAM generated we have to hand write all the important data that will stay with the project file for life. THat simple idea will save tons of work over the years.

The trick here is to give access to ALL the handy tools of conversational programming for the pro yet keep it simple in context so it does not LOOK overwhelming to the beginner. 

The new interface DOES look and work WELL, Good Job.  Please remember I am not picking on you, just trying to help you along and help test things when I can.

(;-) TP

« Last Edit: October 27, 2007, 08:08:31 AM by vmax549 »
Re: V2.75 ready for test
« Reply #16 on: October 28, 2007, 12:08:14 PM »
Funny to be on the other side of this conversational debate. My first experience with real CNC was when a good friend bought an AcuRite MillPower system. That does ONLY conversational, it didn't allow Gcode at all. I got so excited about it I wrote a similar program that ran under Win 3.1 See http://plsntcov.8m.com/CNH.htm for some info on it. That system worked really well, and I actually made parts with it- the screen shots show a part for a traction engine model I built that actually was made with the software.

That software used a dll driver that could not be ported after Win95. I came to Mach because it promised an interface that could be called from VB. I was going to  port my code to use Mach as a 'back end' I re-wrote it all into very good quality object oriented VB, but I was never able to get the Mach.ocx to work. I don't think anyone else ever did either and Art eventually quit talking about it. I met Brian Barker when I took my code up to U Maine to show him

So, I really like conversational approach. Actually, I am more into what I call 'Interactive Milling' I like an interface that lets me define parts and simply run them without ever having gcode involved. Thats the MillPower model.

MY problem with the wizard set as it exists is the poor VB script environment. I could do lots of neat things to the wizards, but since every button is its own environment and cannot see or use subroutines form any other button or source it becomes very difficult- maybe tedious is a better word. For example if I wanted to add a 'process sheet' to each wizard the code to do it would have to be included into every screen. Ok, so cut and paste would make that possible, but if i ever needed to make a change Id have 20+ places with the same code to change. I consider that un-supportable.

I don't mean to knock the wizard set- for what they do they work very well and a lot of guys have done a lot of work with them. I will support them, fix bugs, and make minor improvements, but I'm not going to try to make a whole new environment out of them.

What I am doing now is learning Flash and Action Script 3.0 That will be a VERY powerful capability and one could build a nice, interactive, conversational package on it. I'm a long way from being able to do that, but I am working on it.

vmax549

*
Re: V2.75 ready for test
« Reply #17 on: October 28, 2007, 08:46:08 PM »
RON don't give up yet. I am not a programmer but maybe it can be made to work. if it was  done back then, then it should be able to be done now(;-) Never say never just get clever.

What was it that would not interface, I do know that mach is very cranky with VB at times(;-)

You are correct in that the future of machine tools is interactive programming. My oldest son has two Masters in machine tool related technology and they have created some very interesting gizmos dealing with CNC machines and extreme high speed machining.

Lets lay it out to ART once again, it is starting to get cold up there he may need an interesting project to work on.

(;-) TP
« Last Edit: October 28, 2007, 08:49:54 PM by vmax549 »
Re: V2.75 ready for test
« Reply #18 on: October 29, 2007, 04:20:13 PM »
I have edited the manual to reflect the changes in V 2.75.  Art has placed a copy on the FTP site, and I have sent it to Scott to include on the Newfangled site. Its to big to attach to this forum.

Let me know if you find any errors.

vmax549

*
Re: V2.75 ready for test
« Reply #19 on: October 30, 2007, 08:34:58 AM »
Ron I do not see it on any of the sites. Let us know when it gets posted and I will look it over.(;-) TP