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Breakout board choices with smooth stepper
« on: September 16, 2019, 05:34:27 AM »
Hi
I'm fairly new to the hardware side of Hobby CNC work, although I’ve been programming in industry for over 10 years on 3/4/5 axis large woodworking routers.

The machine I've bought has a cheap chinese break out board with very few inputs outputs. Here is the spec,


Approximately 1mtr x 1mtr cutting area with 150mm Z clearence, 3 Axis
2.2kw Chinese water cooled spindle
4PC Nema34 Stepper Motor 965oz.in 5.6A bipolar Model 86BYGH 7.7N.M113mm 4wires 34HS9456 Step Angle 1.8, Rate Voltage 5.6, Rate Current 2.13A, Phase resistance 0.35,Phase Inductance 4.1mH
4 x Stepper motor drivers DM860A, PEAK 7.8A , Set to 3.0 RMS Peak 4.2A and 2000 microstep resolution
4x Power Supply  350W-60VDC
Cheap chinese HY-JK02-M 5-axis interface board. ( I'm not enthused with the board now I understand a little bit more about them and at £10 cost it seems penny pinching to run an expensive machine with one)
16mm dia 16mm pitch 4 start thread lead screws on all axis
Kernal speed at 25000 Hz



I’m looking at your Ess smoother stepper as I wish to use a newer PC with windows 10 which I prefer and already have a spare of and have heard very good things about using one.

With regards to a bob, I want a decent one with plenty of connections for inputs and outputs. I want to control spindle on/off and also the RPM, The usual E stop, ideally pump on/off , a probe, limit and homing switches as well as all the axis XYZA. Feed speed control via remote hand controller.

I like the idea of going to mach4 too....

I have my  my eye on a few here but I presume the USB type will now work with the your ESS smooth stepper if it requires parallel port connection to a bob?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3-axis-mach4-board-interface-usb-cnc-motion-control-card-2000khz/303252148651?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CNC-200-KHz-4-Axis-USB-Mach3-Motion-Control-Card-Breakout-Interface-Board/123698623045?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

Also looked at these,

Spec here
http://www.spark-concepts.com/cnc-xpro-controller-v3/

Now updated with this one, again doesn't mention MAch3/4

http://www.spark-concepts.com/cnc-xpro-v4-controller/



I also want a hand controller that I can control feed and spindle speed with a rotary dial/knob. I think this one will cover that.

https://www.makers-hut.com/product/mach3-4-axis-wireless-electronic-handwheel-manual-controller-mpg-usb-handle/


Any help and advice you can offer with regards to a good set up of smooth stepper and control board based on what I have and wish to upgrade will be very much appreciated,


Mark





Offline Tweakie.CNC

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Re: Breakout board choices with smooth stepper
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2019, 03:43:40 AM »
Hi Mark,

My advice would be to totally ignore the cheap Chinese motion controllers - they have issues and no customer support (plenty tales of woe posted here on the forum).

There are a number of good quality American or EU manufactured motion controllers that do provide good customer support and that is the way to go.

I have a number of different machines and applications so I currently use 5 different motion controller - they each have their own merits.

The Warp9 ESS has plenty of documentation and excellent customer support. You may like to check out their recommendations for breakout boards https://www.warp9td.com/index.php/bob-vendors
or their forum
https://www.warp9td.com/index.php/kunena/recent

Tweakie.
PEACE
Re: Breakout board choices with smooth stepper
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2019, 04:56:43 PM »
Thanks Tweakie,

Warp9 have kindly replied and said exactly the same thing. As a new user I'm learning all the time especially on the hardware side.

Hi Mark,

My advice would be to totally ignore the cheap Chinese motion controllers - they have issues and no customer support (plenty tales of woe posted here on the forum).

There are a number of good quality American or EU manufactured motion controllers that do provide good customer support and that is the way to go.

I have a number of different machines and applications so I currently use 5 different motion controller - they each have their own merits.

The Warp9 ESS has plenty of documentation and excellent customer support. You may like to check out their recommendations for breakout boards https://www.warp9td.com/index.php/bob-vendors
or their forum
https://www.warp9td.com/index.php/kunena/recent

Tweakie.
Re: Breakout board choices with smooth stepper
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2020, 11:12:09 AM »
Thanks Tweakie,

Warp9 have kindly replied and said exactly the same thing. As a new user I'm learning all the time especially on the hardware side.

Hi Mark,

My advice would be to totally ignore the cheap Chinese motion controllers - they have issues and no customer support (plenty tales of woe posted here on the forum).

There are a number of good quality American or EU manufactured motion controllers that do provide good customer support and that is the way to go.

I have a number of different machines and applications so I currently use 5 different motion controller - they each have their own merits.

The Warp9 ESS has plenty of documentation and excellent customer support. You may like to check out their recommendations for breakout boards https://www.warp9td.com/index.php/bob-vendors
or their forum
https://www.warp9td.com/index.php/kunena/recent

Tweakie.


Hi Mark,

having the same issue on controller and BOB, I ask you which BOB you bought for your Smooth stepper...
I seriously thinking about changing the Sh*t chinese XHC ethernet controller.... ;)

Adrian
Re: Breakout board choices with smooth stepper
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2020, 10:30:06 PM »
Hi,
I use an ESS and two MB02 BoBs from Homann Designs in Australia.

Just to be clear the MB02 from Peter Homann IS NOT TO BE CONFUSED with the MB3 from CNCRoom.
Its unfortunate that their part numbers are so similar, it's bound to create confusion.

There are two schools of thought when it comes to Bobs with an ESS.

The first school is to use a very simple bi-directional board like the C10 or MB02. Such boards have one input port,
and for our discussion the port is identical to Machs parallel port, and can be configured with pins 2-9 as inputs OR
outputs.

With my two boards I have one set for pins 2-9 as outputs allowing plenty of outputs for motor drivers, but the second
board I have pins 2-9 set for inputs. This means I've got swags of inputs for limits, homes and probes.

The downside of such simple boards as the C10 or MB02 is that there are no opto-isolated inputs, nor are there any relay
outputs nor a PWM to analogue output. Electronics is my thing and if I need an isolated input I will make it and add it to
my MB02, likewise if I need a relay output I will arrange the output to drive a relay, often through an intermediary transistor.
Such small additions are fine if you are electronically minded but may not be to your liking.

Using C10's or MB02's offers the greatest flexibility, you can decide which boards a dedicated to inputs and which to outputs and as you
are making the translation electronics you can decide whether you want single ended or differential outputs say, and whether inputs should
be 24V tolerant for example.

The other school of thought goes that the BoB should be configured to your needs as is. The MB3 from CNCRoom is a good example.
The board has three ports and is matched to the ESS. It has a balance of inputs and outputs, some differential, most inputs are opto-isolated
and 24V tolerant. It has two relay outputs and a PWM output for a spindle. In short the MB03 should just about fill any requirement.
The cost of the board is about $180USD. The only downside, in my opinion, is that you are now bound to use the configuration determined
by the manufacturer and I rue the loss of choice, having said that many users are more than happy with the manufacturers choice.

Craig
'I enjoy sex at 73.....I live at 71 so its not too far to walk.'
Re: Breakout board choices with smooth stepper
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2020, 05:40:11 AM »
Hi Craig,

I wrote you for asking for some advices also here https://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php?topic=42253.10

The 2 options are both good, as I'm in electronics as well (even thou I'm not an Engineer but a Sales manager with great passion for electronics and mechanics);
the bad thing is that I don't have time for producing a board by my self, so It is better if I go for the second solution...
Staying in Europe, I found 2 german BOBs (CNC Technics Breakoutboard 3.4 or 4.1) which are very similar to MB02 and MB03 by CNCroom, and also the price is comparable.
There are many more I/O than what I need, so not problem if they are not customized...
https://shop.cnc-technics.de/product_info.php?info=p63_breakoutboard-4-1-for-ess-smoothstepper.html
I would be very grateful if you could read my post on the other topic and reply, I hope I don't ask you too much......

bye
Adrian
Re: Breakout board choices with smooth stepper
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2020, 07:03:31 AM »
Hi,
the MB02 IS VERY DIFFERENT to the MB03, they are not even by the same manufacturer.

What you need to do is decide whether you want one/two/three single port MB02's or C10's and customize to suit your
machine or go with an MB03 (or Technics equivalent) which is a fully developed three port board.

C10's are $23USD each, they are hard to beat at that price even with import tax and shipping.

Craig
'I enjoy sex at 73.....I live at 71 so its not too far to walk.'
Re: Breakout board choices with smooth stepper
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2020, 08:37:50 AM »
looking at CNCroom, I thought they were of the same producer...  ::)

one port could be enough for now, I dont' need that many inputs, but I don't like the missing optoisolation..
Also, my intention is to drive the spindle with 0-10V output, so I should make a DAC by self

For sure with a MB03 (or Technics equivalent) I should be fine for very long time!

Thanks,
Adriano
Re: Breakout board choices with smooth stepper
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2020, 01:31:02 PM »
Hi,
having just one MB02 (or C10 equivalent) results in 12 outputs and 5 inputs.

If you have one input for an Estop, one for a probe that leaves just three for up to nine limit and home switches if you chose not
to combine them. I'd seriously recommend a second MB02 (or C10) set up as inputs and that would result in another 4 outputs but
a extra 13 inputs. These extra inputs allow you to have separate homes and limits that have distinct advantages.

Quote
I dont' need that many inputs, but I don't like the missing optoisolation..

I've used two MB02's for six years WITHOUT opt-isolation. It must be said that I did something silly with one input
on my primary BoB and have manged to damage that one input, and I haven't bothered to replace the SMD IC responsible,
but overall I don't miss opto-isolation. I was concerned that my probe might be vulnerable so I isolated that one input,
all the rest I had no need so didn't bother, no problem. Relays and 0-10V outputs are no big deal, a handful of components at best.

No doubt the MB3 from CNCRoom or the Technics equivalent will be fine but they are approx. $180 or 200 Euro respectively.
Neither were available at the time I was building my machine but doubt I would have spent the extra even if they had been.

Craig
'I enjoy sex at 73.....I live at 71 so its not too far to walk.'
Re: Breakout board choices with smooth stepper
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2020, 02:29:12 PM »
Hi,
having just one MB02 (or C10 equivalent) results in 12 outputs and 5 inputs.

If you have one input for an Estop, one for a probe that leaves just three for up to nine limit and home switches if you chose not
to combine them. I'd seriously recommend a second MB02 (or C10) set up as inputs and that would result in another 4 outputs but
a extra 13 inputs. These extra inputs allow you to have separate homes and limits that have distinct advantages.
I've used two MB02's for six years WITHOUT opt-isolation. It must be said that I did something silly with one input
on my primary BoB and have manged to damage that one input, and I haven't bothered to replace the SMD IC responsible,
but overall I don't miss opto-isolation. I was concerned that my probe might be vulnerable so I isolated that one input,
all the rest I had no need so didn't bother, no problem. Relays and 0-10V outputs are no big deal, a handful of components at best.

I now use 14 inputs (all limits and homes are managed separately) and 4 axis + 7 more outputs, so I'd need 2 boards....

No doubt the MB3 from CNCRoom or the Technics equivalent will be fine but they are approx. $180 or 200 Euro respectively.
Neither were available at the time I was building my machine but doubt I would have spent the extra even if they had been.

today a carpenter (a company supplier) asked me to buy motors, drivers and a controller for CNC he has intention to build after having seen mine... so I'm taking into consideration the development of a BOB (for both of us) to be paired to a smooth stepper...
If I make it I won't miss to post some data and photos...  ;)