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Author Topic: Cincom citizen L20 control conversion  (Read 490 times)

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Cincom citizen L20 control conversion
« on: July 16, 2019, 03:10:01 PM »
Hello
Do you think that a Mach3 ~ 4 numerical control conversion can be made to a cincom citizen.
The machine has 5 axis and 3 spindles which should be controlled by PWM.
I know for sure that I can control 5 axes with Mach3, but 3 spindles one of which is the live tool ...?
Thank you in advance for your answers
Re: Cincom citizen L20 control conversion
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2019, 07:11:27 PM »
Hi,
neither Mach3 or Mach4 are natively multi-spindle CNC solutions.

Mach4 has up to six out-of-band axes, one of which is the nominal spindle. The spindle has a number of programming APIs
which make it useful as a spindle with all the features you would expect, including PWM. The remaining five out-of-band axes can be jogged
using scripts, the PWM function is not available for any out-of-band axis other the the spindle. Thus they would require step/direction
control. They are naturally suited to indexing (driving to a position and halting) rather than free running. They can however be
made to free run with a workaround.

I don't think Mach3 has out-of-band axes in the same manner, I'm hoping a Mach3 expert will jump in and answer that.

Craig
My wife left with my best friend...
     and I miss him!
Re: Cincom citizen L20 control conversion
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2019, 12:35:37 AM »
Thanks for the reply Joeaverage
I have to find a solution for at least two spindles, maybe if not PWM but at least a signal between 1V and 5V to control a frequency converter.
Re: Cincom citizen L20 control conversion
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2019, 02:39:24 AM »
Hi,
use an analogue capable PLC.

Craig
My wife left with my best friend...
     and I miss him!
Re: Cincom citizen L20 control conversion
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2019, 02:03:32 PM »
Hello
Ok, I know how to control an motor with PLC, but what would be the communication between PLC and Mach3.
For example, if I require a 1500 rpm CW (M3 S1500), how would this code be translated for the PLC.
Thanks.
Re: Cincom citizen L20 control conversion
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2019, 02:20:16 PM »
Hi,
Modbus.

Craig
My wife left with my best friend...
     and I miss him!
Re: Cincom citizen L20 control conversion
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2019, 01:18:05 AM »
Hi
And how would the mach3 make the difference between the spindle1 and the spindle2, assuming the two will have to run together with different speeds and even in sync mode.
I assume I need two independent signals coming from mach3.
How can i change mach3 for the second signal.
Thanks.
Re: Cincom citizen L20 control conversion
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2019, 03:43:55 AM »
Hi,
use Mach to generate two or more numbers, each one representing the speed of a spindle.
Those numbers are transmitted to  a PLC which turns those numbers into analogue voltages, one
for each spindle. Thus you could have a number of spindles up to the number of independent
analogue outputs of your chosen PLC.

There are PLCs which can generate step/direction signals. Whether any  (affordable) PLC has more than one
step/direction output pair, and whether they can be synchronized is more than I can say.

Quote
For example, if I require a 1500 rpm CW (M3 S1500), how would this code be translated for the PLC.

In short, you can't transmit that to a PLC. The S word is the speed of the ONE spindle defined in Mach and it does
not need to be transmitted anywhere. The primary spindle 'consumes' this signal.
The speed of secondary or tertiary spindles would have to be set by defining  numbers which are subsequently
converted to either analogue outputs OR step/direction signal pairs, should your PLC be capable of that.

Quite frankly you are pushing, or trying to push, Mach3 beyond its intended capabilities. You might get a result
but I think it will be long, difficult and error prone. I wish you luck.

You could use out-of-band axes as provided by Mach4. They can be made to be free running with a little cleverness.
They are not coordinated axes however.

Mach3 and Mach4 are limited to six coordinated axes. Thus if you have five axes for motion that allows one
coordinated axis leftover. That axis could be a rotationally synchronized spindle. Further spindles could NOT
be synchronized in the same fashion because there are no further coordinated axes left.

You can have positionally accurate out-of-band axes in Mach4, we would call them 'indexable axes' but not coordinated.
For example if you commanded a two positional jogs for two out of band spindles, say one to rotate 3600 degrees, ie 10
revolutions at a speed of 360 degree/sec and the other 7200 degrees or 20 revolutions at 720 degree/sec they should
arrive at their respective destinations at the same time. What could not be guaranteed however is that they will maintain
perfect 2:1 positional accuracy throughout the move, even though they would end up in perfect 2:1 at the end of the move.

Craig
My wife left with my best friend...
     and I miss him!
Re: Cincom citizen L20 control conversion
« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2019, 11:49:14 AM »
Hi Craig
I like to push things beyond their limits, is the only way to reach the stars ;D
At these machines the two spindles in most cases work separately, with different speeds, their synchronization (when they take the piece from one to the other) is not very difficult to do, can use the same signal from spindle 1 to spindle 2.
The third spindle is actually the living tool, and I'll find a way to get him to go.
I'll try to use the sixth axis as a secondary spindle.
Thanks a lot Craig!!!

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Re: Cincom citizen L20 control conversion
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2019, 04:06:38 AM »
if you use an external Motion Controller like CSMIO or UC300 (both have two analog Outputs), you can control
spindle 2 and 3 via them (spindle 1 will be the Standard spindle).

via a customised M3 macro you can control the seperate spindles.

there will be different possibilties to let the macro know, witch spindle/spindles has to be turned on.
anything is possible, just try it.
if you find some mistakes, in my bad bavarian english,they are yours.