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Author Topic: Out-Of-Band Axes in Hobby vs Indusrial  (Read 2598 times)

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Out-Of-Band Axes in Hobby vs Indusrial
« on: May 05, 2018, 07:44:44 PM »
Hi All,
in Mach4Hobby we are limited to one out-of-band axis and that axis is always the spindle. As such there is good control over it via the API but not indexing. That is to say that the spindle
is meant to be free running and cannot without some work-around be stopped at some precice location/angle.

If I understand Mach4Industrial allows all six out-of-band axes. Does anyone know what control mechanisms exist for those axes? I imagine for instance it would be highly desired that there
could be more than on free running spindle for multispindle machines. I imagine also that position/index control would be available. I'm thinking that such a feature would be required of a 'tombstone'
type workpeice which required indexable movement in order that multiple parts could be made from the one tombstone as an example.

The workaround I have used with Mach4Hobby is to programmatically reassign my spindle as a rotational axis, C say, then call a C axis move to the required index. Provided no other axes are called
on the same line of Gcode then it could be considered that the C axis moved independently of all other axes ie a quasi 'out-of-band' axis.

I must say that until I understood the implication of the restriction to one out-of-band axis and that its always a spindle as applies to Mach4Hobby I would have said there is nothing about
Mach4Industrial that I'd miss. I'm now thinking that I miss not having indexable out-of-band axes, even one would be good.

Notwithstanding Chads use of MacroB and the glowing report he makes of it, it is not a feature that I require at this time, but would like at least one indexable out-of-band axis.

Craig
My wife left with my best friend...
     and I miss him!

Offline dude1

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Re: Out-Of-Band Axes in Hobby vs Indusrial
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2018, 02:54:59 AM »
There are some MacroB Mach can use that if you knew what they where you would miss them, manly for production stuff checking tools, setting tool heights, offsets so on the fluffy stuff fanuc and renshaw use's.
Re: Out-Of-Band Axes in Hobby vs Indusrial
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2018, 08:13:23 AM »
Craig,
 
Is the out-of-band on hobby always the spindle?  I was kind of hoping I could use a separate axis out-of-band.

We are currently working on retrofitting a Milltronics with a SMTC; originally it had a servo to rotate the tool magazine, so we put a servo back on it. 

I was going to ask before long how you moved an out of band axis, for us, to pre load the tool changer, seperate while g code is running.  What did you plan on using an out-of-band axis for?
Chad Byrd
Re: Out-Of-Band Axes in Hobby vs Indusrial
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2018, 02:24:27 PM »
Hi,
trying to remember where I read it but yes in Mach4Hobby you have only one out-of-band axis and it is always the spindle.

Craig
My wife left with my best friend...
     and I miss him!
Re: Out-Of-Band Axes in Hobby vs Indusrial
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2018, 02:50:57 PM »
Well that's a bummer.  I guess I'll have to get the industrial license so I can have the Tool Magazine pre load while running g code.  Any Idea how to make it do such a thing?  

I made a macro using "T" once before per Steve's input.  It works great, but it is running off of a DC Gear Motor via Outputs and not an Axis.

I plan on being able to rotate the magazine through the PLC we are adding to this mill, it will be easy enough to keep track of positions between Mach and my PLC respectively, but being able to rotate the axis ANY time I want will pose to be a nice puzzle.

Any thoughts?
Chad Byrd
Re: Out-Of-Band Axes in Hobby vs Indusrial
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2018, 02:55:57 PM »
Hi,
no not really. That's why I was asking about how you'd go about getting motion from those other out-of-band axes. I was hoping that someone who had Industrial
could shed some light on it. I downloaded Industrial Demo but saw nothing to indicate how all the out-of-band axes work.

Craig
My wife left with my best friend...
     and I miss him!
Re: Out-Of-Band Axes in Hobby vs Indusrial
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2018, 03:03:02 PM »
Yeah, the industrial version we are using doesn't have need for out-of-band.  And, like you, I have found nothing indicating how to add motion to an out of band axis.

I'm currently finalizing the wiring on our electrical panel and then putting it back in the cabinet on our machine.  I hope by the end of the month we will have some motion on the

machine, pending time putting out fires here at the shop.  Once it is moving I can test the out-of-band axis.  Just have to figure out where to start haha.
Chad Byrd
Re: Out-Of-Band Axes in Hobby vs Indusrial
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2018, 10:21:32 AM »
Craig,
I was really hoping Steve would chime in and let us know how this works haha.  ;)
Chad Byrd

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Re: Out-Of-Band Axes in Hobby vs Indusrial
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2018, 12:07:11 PM »
Out of band axes are for controlling things like chip conveyors, stock feeders, carousel motors, etc...  They are not coordinated motion axes but instead are totally independent of other axes.  OOB axes use the scripting jog methods for motion and they can be homed.  So one can use incremental or absolute jogging for precise positioning.  Or velocity based jogs as a percentage of max velocity or feed per minute.  No G code will ever move one of these axes in coordination with any other axis.  Meaning that no axis letter can be assigned to them.

Contrary to the feature matrix on the website, the Hobby version has all 6 OOB axes available.  It was Mach4 Lite that was limited to only one OOB axis.  Obviously, one would need a motion controller that could control at least 12 motors to take advantage of every coordinated and OOB axis.  So...  you quickly get out of hobby territory, price wise. 

Not all motion controllers support these OOB axes.  So check with the controller vendor first. 

Steve
Re: Out-Of-Band Axes in Hobby vs Indusrial
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2018, 12:14:39 PM »
Awesome!  I'll check to make sure that HiCON Can use the OOB Axis, it controls 6 axis.

I plan on using an OOB Axis for a SMTC carousel and I would like to rotate it freely with the Click PLC as well as in Mach.

I'm thinking about having the Axis be based on a register value and letting the PLC Script move the axis based on what that value is.   I can manipulate the register easily enough from Mach or the Click.

Does that sound plausible?
Chad Byrd