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Author Topic: Help! How best to configure Mitsubishi MR-E-20A (and 40A)-QZ  (Read 1445 times)

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Help! How best to configure Mitsubishi MR-E-20A (and 40A)-QZ
« on: March 27, 2017, 02:06:33 PM »
Good day to you.  First time posting.  Please forgive me if this is the wrong area, but I did see similar questions to mine here.  I currently have what used to be a CNC router (4x8' table), manufactured by Shop Sabre, using WinCNC software and in internal controller card.  The machine has 4 Mitsubishi servo drives/motors, MR-E-20A (and 40A)-QZ.  I can not find a reference to the QZ.  The closest I've come is this link http://dl.mitsubishielectric.com/dl/fa/document/manual/servo/sh030031/sh030031b.pdf.

When WinCNC connected these drives, they did so using 5v from the controller card, versus the 24v requirement in the referenced manual.  They also only used pins 1,2,8, 23, and 25.  Pins 1 and 2 are soldered to one wire (+5v).  Pin 8 is E-Stop input.  Pins 23 and 25 are PP and NP respectively.

In talking to Mach Support, they are not sure the drives will function with the software.  They have recommended I install the Mach3 version, hook up a drive, and try it out.  Now I am, by no means, an engineer on this stuff.  I've been around it for a long time, and I could probably muddle my way though it and hopefully not burn out a drive, but in an effort to do this the smart way, I thought I would ask here if anyone either has experience with these drives, or knows enough about this to decipher the manual, couple that with your knowledge of Mack3, and help me get the signals worked out.

Thank you, in advance, for any help you can offer me.

Patrick
Re: Help! How best to configure Mitsubishi MR-E-20A (and 40A)-QZ
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2017, 05:43:37 AM »
Hi,
I am inexperienced with servos but electronics is my thing and may be able to help or at least ask the right questions.

Most servo drives are programmed usually with software by the servo drive manufacturer. The program parameters are
stored in EEPROM in the drive. I presume that your drives have been configured previously. It may be necessary to get a copy
of the software that you can reconfigure to your requirement. It would certainly be instructive about the capability of your drives
and servos. Given that the servos have worked in this application then you should be OK without it but you may have to make
some shrewd guesses about how it was configured.

The inputs you require particularly are the step pos and step neg. In section 3.2 Internal connection of servo amplifier page 3-9
shows the inputs as opto isolated. Thus if current flows thru the opto LEDs the input will work. While the drive manufacturer
probably intended that 24V be used 5V will probably also work and certainly did with your previous controller.
Pins 1 & 2 need to be connected to the 5V supply of your BOB/motion controller, pin 8 to suitably configured estop/enable pin
on your BOB and pins 23 and 25 to your step pos and step neg pins of your BOB. I am going to presume your motion controller/
BOB can produce step pos/step neg signals. Note they are called different things, CW/CCW, among others by different controller/BOB
manufacturers. While Step/Direction is more common in Mach CW/CCW is well known and widely if not universally supported.
What is not clear is whether your drives are anticipating that the limit and /or home switches are to be hooked direct to the drive
or to the controller. Either would work as far as the servo is concerned but if direct connected to the drive the signals must be
transmitted back to Mach somehow usually via some sort of serial comms.

That only pins 1,2,8,23 and 25 had previously been used would lead you to believe that home and limits were connected to the
controller rather than the drive. I think the advice to try it that way is a good idea. If the servo is not actually installed in the machine
then not having either limits or a home switch will do no harm.

If you decide that the servo PID parameters, fault current, max speed/accel have to be changed  then you will have to get a copy of
the configuration software, no question. With any sort of luck you can use what is currently configured.

What controller and/or BOB are you using? I use an external controller, a Smoothstepper ESS and Homan Designs BOBs.
If you don't have either a controller or BOB then you have some decisions to make. You might also consider using Mach4
rather than Mach3. There is nothing wrong with Mach3 and it has tens of thousands of users but its development has ceased.
Mach4 is suitably complete for milling and routing and features are being added daily by Artsoft and Plugin manufacturers.
If you are going to buy a BOB or BOBs make sure you get ones with LEDs on the outputs, really are a Godsend when setting
up, especially if new to Mach.

Craig
My wife left with my best friend...
     and I miss him!
Re: Help! How best to configure Mitsubishi MR-E-20A (and 40A)-QZ
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2017, 05:46:06 AM »
Hi,
should have prefaced the above with a welcome to the forum!

Of course now you are in our clutches..... LOL

Craig
My wife left with my best friend...
     and I miss him!
Re: Help! How best to configure Mitsubishi MR-E-20A (and 40A)-QZ
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2017, 08:21:14 AM »
Craig, thank you for the reply.  I had apparently been under the misconception that step and direction were two separate signals.  As I managed to successfully make a cable and connect Mach3 to one of the drives, the drive went the opposite direction than what was being called out.  I assume (scary thought, assuming) that pins 23 and 25 are reversed in my cable (now to find my pin extractor).

I can probably get ahold of the drive software, but I'm not sure what, other than parameters, I would need to alter, if at all.  I can access parameters from the display, and the drives have been working fine with regard to the most common settings.

As for the choice between Mach3 and Mach4, the good people at Mach Support were not sure they would, so Mach3 was purely for beta testing.

The original software that came with the machine, WinCNC, has it's own internal controller card (which is where the 5v comes from).  And yes, the limits are wired directly in to the card.

So, all of that being said, my task list moves to the next 2 items;
1) Should I leave the servos as they are with respect to open collector, or should I move to differential mode?  That may be a question for the servo guys, and maybe the correct answer is to leave well enough alone.
2) I need to find spindle motors, within my small budget, that will drive between 400-1000 rpm, and have a minimum of 20 inch pounds of torque at those speeds.  The speeds will most likely be set it and forget it in most cases, and the need for the range (400-1000) is mostly because I'm not sure what will work best.  The existing spindle (just a 90v dc gearmotor) spins at 360, and I'm sure the other axis' could handle ramping up.  The existing spindle motor is going to be replaced by two spindles (already have two vertical axis', but one is empty), and will need to spin at the same speed.  The vertical axis' will drive the spindles, equipped with form taps, down and up in to existing holes.  X and Y will only move when Z and W are  up, out of the part.

Once I have the new drives nailed down, I can begin looking for a controller card, BoB, etc. to move in to the Mach4 software.

I thank you again for your assistance Craig, and hope to hear from you and others with suggestions on my project.
Re: Help! How best to configure Mitsubishi MR-E-20A (and 40A)-QZ
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2017, 02:15:45 PM »
Hi,
that you can drive a servo is good news. That its going the wrong direction is a simple fix.

Reading the manual further I found the parameter settings you're talking about and it certainly appears that you can
program them from the drive without software installed on a PC. I have an Allen Bradley servo for a spindle and it
requires propriety software to configure it. It seemed like an extra complication but having used it it does make
configuration so much simpler than parameter entry like my VFD.

Whether you go to differential signalling is really just a matter of pulse speed. Mach3s native PP pulse rate is 25khz.
Without electronic gearing and a 10,000 count ppr encoder that means 2.5 revs per second or 150 rpm max for your
servo, pretty modest. If you up Machs PP pulse rate to its max of 100khz which happens to be the max open collector
rate for your drive that works out to 600 rpm. Is that fast enuf for your rapids? Do you require really fine resolution because
electronic gearing increases speed but at the expense of resolution. To take advantage of the speed of differential signalling
you will need an external controller, PP just wont keep up.

As for spindles if you don't require indexing then VFD driven three phase motors would work fine. If you want indexing or
may do so in the future two decent steppers and drivers would work.

Craig
My wife left with my best friend...
     and I miss him!
Re: Help! How best to configure Mitsubishi MR-E-20A (and 40A)-QZ
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2019, 04:03:02 PM »
Hi,
I'm in the process of retrofitting a ShopSabre to run Mach 4. My machine is outfitted with the same Mitsubishi drives listed, and I'm hoping someone on this thread can help me solve a major problem I'm having.

I can't figure out how to configure the e-stop circuit, and clear my AL.E6 alarm. I'm using a warp9 BOB, and the e-stop circuit is talking to Mach 4 (as are my limit switches). The drive manual it says EMG should be connected to SG through the e-stop switch, but WinCNC didn't use pin 13. I've tried shorting the two to see if I can get a response, but nothing happens. I'm guessing the drives have been reconfigured, or something upstream of SG-13 isn't active.

@Left469 did you end up installing a differential line driver, or stick with cw/ccw? I purchased some line drivers when I bought my warp9 bob, but wont install them unless there is a need. 

any suggestions would be very helpful.

Adam

Re: Help! How best to configure Mitsubishi MR-E-20A (and 40A)-QZ
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2019, 09:02:13 PM »
Hi,
this post should probably be on the Mac4 General Discussion board as would get more replies....possibly.

Quote
My machine is outfitted with the same Mitsubishi drives listed,

Where is that listing? Would you post either the drive manual or at least a link to it.

Quote
I can't figure out how to configure the e-stop circuit, and clear my AL.E6 alarm

AL.E6 sounds like a drive alarm.... not really Mach at all?

Craig
My wife left with my best friend...
     and I miss him!
Re: Help! How best to configure Mitsubishi MR-E-20A (and 40A)-QZ
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2019, 09:03:35 PM »
Hi,
sorry missed the earlier link....please disregard my post.

Craig
My wife left with my best friend...
     and I miss him!
Re: Help! How best to configure Mitsubishi MR-E-20A (and 40A)-QZ
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2019, 09:20:16 PM »
Hi,
according to the manual there is an Estop circuit within each servo drive.

If you connect with a wire CN1 EMG input (pin8) to SG input (pin13) then the drive side Etsop is permanently deactivated.

Craig
My wife left with my best friend...
     and I miss him!
Re: Help! How best to configure Mitsubishi MR-E-20A (and 40A)-QZ
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2019, 08:36:47 AM »
If you connect with a wire CN1 EMG input (pin8) to SG input (pin13) then the drive side Etsop is permanently deactivated.
Correct, but I would recommend finding a way to integrate a switch into that configuration as a means to stop movement.  On my Shop Sabre, no signals existed to monitor or halt the system in the event of a crash (e.g. if one drive alarmed, the others just kept running and would cause damage).
Also note that when I originally went to wire my controller card to the drives, I found the drive ground wires were all wired in series, and someone also wired an outlet using the ground wire for neutral.  This created a ground loop and sent the mitsubishi's into an epileptic seizure.