Hello Guest it is August 17, 2019, 05:30:07 PM

Author Topic: Partmaster Lathe V13 & Rear Turret Lathe under Mach3 ----problems  (Read 8704 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Partmaster Lathe V13 & Rear Turret Lathe under Mach3 ----problems
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2016, 12:27:58 PM »
Before you worry about doing multiple parts, learn the basics.

I only used G0 G53 X0 Z0 as an example, you can change tool anywhere.
A major benefit of not having a fixed tool change position (i.e. coding it into the M6 macro), is you can command a tool change anywhere, however it is then up to you to ensure any tool changes are done in a 'safe' position. Some CAM packages are capable of doing that, however it normally means the CAM package has access to a 3D model of the machine, so it can simulate changes and know how much clearance is needed. But such CAM packages are expensive, and even more time consuming to setup.

Normally you'd pick a point where everything is clear of the spindle/work piece for all tools, however if you're wanting to minimise cycle time as much as possible, you can take the generated g-code from the CAM, and manually alter the tool change positions. However you would only normally do that if you're expecting to run a high quantity of identical parts, as it could easily take you 10-15minutes to find the optimum tool change positions, yet only save seconds of each cycle time, and you also risk the possibility of getting it wrong and causing a crash.

Regarding doing multiple parts, you can either rely on the CAM to simply generate additional lines to machine additional parts nearer the chuck, or re-use the code but insert temporary/work offsets to move everything nearer the chuck. However, before you get to that level of complication, learn and understand how to make single parts first.

 ;D This is why I bought CAM, but I discovered it does not listens me  :D

I am worrying to adjust post process so I can work like i tried to describe (machine is not 100% assembled yet so until whether become nice I play with CAM) ,  I managed to make macro for tool changer so probably I will be able to make changes in macro for tool changer but like I said that is last thing I want to do. I was hoping that will hear some advice what to do in post processor.

I agree about what you said about high quantity parts, I understand that  :)
« Last Edit: February 14, 2016, 12:41:07 PM by zmajmr »
Re: Partmaster Lathe V13 & Rear Turret Lathe under Mach3 ----problems
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2016, 03:21:54 PM »
I "sorta" understand what you are asking and have Dolphin Turn v10 but AM NOT experienced enough with it yet.  I've done some simple parts with it successfully (Hoo-rah!).  Mine is a converted ORAC & has a front mounted QCTP with 15 QC tools set up in the Mach tool table.  Works great!

Andre from Dolphin can most likely help you.  He checks in @ CNCZone every few days or so.  He certainly helped me!  http://www.cnczone.com/forums/dolphin-cadcam/

Not much activity there but I have learned a few things.  There is a Yahoo group for Dolphin as well.  Good luck & keep posting. ;D
Milton from Tennessee ya'll.
Re: Partmaster Lathe V13 & Rear Turret Lathe under Mach3 ----problems
« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2016, 03:49:56 PM »
I "sorta" understand what you are asking and have Dolphin Turn v10 but AM NOT experienced enough with it yet.  I've done some simple parts with it successfully (Hoo-rah!).  Mine is a converted ORAC & has a front mounted QCTP with 15 QC tools set up in the Mach tool table.  Works great!

Andre from Dolphin can most likely help you.  He checks in @ CNCZone every few days or so.  He certainly helped me!  http://www.cnczone.com/forums/dolphin-cadcam/

Not much activity there but I have learned a few things.  There is a Yahoo group for Dolphin as well.  Good luck & keep posting. ;D

Hi, I was hoping you are expert by now   ;D, I saw some of your posts, also saw that Hood used Partmaster. I bought motion controller from CS lab so I heard that guy with I communicate about some problems made post processor for Mach3 Turn, so I asked him about my problem, need to see what he say. I want to know is this what I expect is doable , some one who work with post processors can help in which way I need to go, I will learn to do it my self if it is possible, just need some tips.

Well I hope Andre see this thread  :)
Re: Partmaster Lathe V13 & Rear Turret Lathe under Mach3 ----problems
« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2016, 12:23:23 PM »
Here is update, guy who helps me about CSIMO / IP - S answered me what he concluded, will copy paste what I told him and what he answer:

Me:
Other thing , I made this video , and I posted it on Mach3 support forum and CNC zone and send it to Dolphin support and I did not get any replay. Thing is that I in CAM (Partmaster Lathe) see that after every command for tool change point of chosen tool is shown  in safe position( which I can define according machined part and choosen tools) (but in CAM it is not shown how tool came to this position) and problem is that I can not plan toolpath because CAM  does not take care how much each tool sticks out of turret so when I give in CAM command for some tool , tool changer start to rotate turret and I had situation that my drill hit spindle (again luckily I did not break anything) , thing is that I realized that with post processor that I got from Dolphin I see one in CAM and other in reality so it is frustrating to make some machining operations.

 
Him:
I understand what you mean because I was going through the same thing once.

I wondered for days how to avoid collison with long drill at the tool change.

 
I came to two conclusions which proved to be invaluable in practice:

 
1) You should always use  G28 (G91 G28 Z0 / G28 X0 / G90)

G28 should be treated as a point in which you can safely change tools no matter how long it is.

Usually it's X0 Z0 point (it depends on the magazine type)

If the tools exchange in point G28 could cause the collision then the gcode should be edited manually. 

 

2) A Tool change point isn't a tool change point.

The change point should be treated as a intermediate point through which the tool must go to reach the goal safely.

 

Both these conclusions create a simple rule.

From the G28 point to the tool change point - a collision is prevented by a user/machine operator.

From the tool change point through the entire processing up to tool change point - CAM prevents the collision.

From the tool change point to G28 point - a machine operator. 

 
Me :
Also I saw that in CAM when I delete all offsets of tools nothing is changed, execution of g code is same if I enter tool offsets or I delete them.

 
In Mach 3 if filled Tool Table with offsets. So my thinking is , or question why CAM does not takes offsets form tool definition in CAM and backs tool for their length so I can have in reality same tool path as in CAM. I do not know do you understand me what I am trying to explain, because of that I made video. I can machine part to be same as in CAM only problem is that every toolchange is russian rullet, or I hit soft limits or I hit wiht drill spindle and situations like that. I would made that before every rotation of turret , tool cahnger first need to backs right or up according to type of tools is chosen (all that information are entered in CAM ) and I thought they will be used when I made my first steps with CAM and mounted tools in turret.

 
Him:
Most of cheap and a bit more expensive CAM software do not use tool offsets but only blade corner radius.

Expensive and professional CAM software use blade corner radius, blade angle, handle length and thickness and tool offsets for a machine work visualization and collision control.

However I've never heard about a CAM software that would use tool offsets to automatically avoid collision at tool change.

 
I'm personally using Mastercam and I've never used tool offsets as in practice this would only make the work harder.

As I wrote before I worked on two machines and gcode must have been universal to be compatible with both of them.



End of conversation on that topic, so need to study that, if some one have more suggestions let me know. :)

Offline mc

*
  •  381 381
    • View Profile
Re: Partmaster Lathe V13 & Rear Turret Lathe under Mach3 ----problems
« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2016, 05:39:20 PM »
G28 is a go to machine reference point command (usually the same as home position), which ultimately leads to the same position as a G53 X0 Z0 command.

Probably worth reading http://www.mmsonline.com/columns/g28-versus-g53 to understand the differences. I'd personally use a G53, as it isn't affected by the current machine (absolute/incremental) mode.
Re: Partmaster Lathe V13 & Rear Turret Lathe under Mach3 ----problems
« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2016, 05:44:11 PM »
G28 is a go to machine reference point command (usually the same as home position), which ultimately leads to the same position as a G53 X0 Z0 command.

Probably worth reading http://www.mmsonline.com/columns/g28-versus-g53 to understand the differences. I'd personally use a G53, as it isn't affected by the current machine (absolute/incremental) mode.

Hi, thx for replay, will read that from link, it is good to hear different opinions. :)
Re: Partmaster Lathe V13 & Rear Turret Lathe under Mach3 ----problems
« Reply #18 on: March 13, 2016, 05:57:16 PM »
I realized that reality did not matched CAM 100% even it looked like I manage to make what I wanted, so after even more analysis I went step further, now I control CAM and not CAM me , haha  :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBxXSZwIiNo
« Last Edit: March 13, 2016, 05:59:11 PM by zmajmr »