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Author Topic: Backlash not applied during manual JOG?  (Read 10648 times)

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Offline dude1

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Re: Backlash not applied during manual JOG?
« Reply #40 on: July 12, 2016, 01:02:19 AM »
na hes someone who knows more than most phd and all.

you can get differences in travel does a 20 year old haas have the same backlash amount as it was new if not all of the table was used no it wont it will have a wear patch same as any machine

Offline Banr

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Re: Backlash not applied during manual JOG?
« Reply #41 on: July 12, 2016, 01:12:01 AM »
na hes someone who knows more than most phd and all.

you can get differences in travel does a 20 year old haas have the same backlash amount as it was new if not all of the table was used no it wont it will have a wear patch same as any machine

That's not acceptable backlash, that's a slopped out machine that needs to be rebuilt. there is a difference. and excessive wear patch is exactly that, worn out. it needs a new ballscrew and or rails. but apparently you need a phd to know that.

Offline dude1

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Re: Backlash not applied during manual JOG?
« Reply #42 on: July 12, 2016, 01:42:40 AM »
these is hobby not 2 million dollar kit there are barely any hobby machine or sub 100,000 machine with nasa speck that have a perfect surfaces over the length of the skew, rail, bed. compering a million plus machine from a billion dollar corp with teams working on one part of the machine, to M3 is compering lead to gold.

the amount of math to do backlash comp is massive and that is just working it out not the code then there's the code it's a undertaking in a half.

from a brand new machine sure backlash wont be that hard to work out in the + and - direction but if it's .1 or 0.01 that would be the parts, if it's 0.009 or lower sure why not get it lower.

a converted machine yer why not.

getting the + backlash and the - backlash you can use the average on that day 30 degrees ever side it will be different so easy no everything plays a part on what the backlash is at any given day depending on a lot of thing includeing the weather.

what the fanic guys would of worked out that's why they say warm the machine up for x amount of time before use. the specks will be at a temp and humidity

Offline rcaffin

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Re: Backlash not applied during manual JOG?
« Reply #43 on: July 12, 2016, 02:01:20 AM »
to M3 is compering lead to gold.
Ah ....
And Mach3 is the gold I presume?  ;D

Mind you, I can't help feeling that the Mach3 (UCCNC, LinuxCNC) direction is the way of the future. Proprietary HW/SW combos (such as Fanuc) always lose out to 'Open' SW ime. Yes, it may take the 'Open' SW a little while to get there (budgets, budgets), but just look at every supercomputer and every web server out there. And I find those massive (Fanuc-style) front panels quite boggling compared to the simple GUI of the more modern systems.

I am told that if you want to add a new g-code command or a macro facility to one of the older systems, it can cost you thousands. With the PC versions you usally get everything in the first package, with no extras needed.

I'm raving, and diverting the thread. Sorry. To the best of my knowledge, the ESS does not support backlash correction itself. It would be a silly idea to try imho.

Cheers
Roger

Offline Banr

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Re: Backlash not applied during manual JOG?
« Reply #44 on: July 12, 2016, 02:21:50 AM »
to M3 is compering lead to gold.
Ah ....
And Mach3 is the gold I presume?  ;D

Mind you, I can't help feeling that the Mach3 (UCCNC, LinuxCNC) direction is the way of the future. Proprietary HW/SW combos (such as Fanuc) always lose out to 'Open' SW ime. Yes, it may take the 'Open' SW a little while to get there (budgets, budgets), but just look at every supercomputer and every web server out there. And I find those massive (Fanuc-style) front panels quite boggling compared to the simple GUI of the more modern systems.

I am told that if you want to add a new g-code command or a macro facility to one of the older systems, it can cost you thousands. With the PC versions you usally get everything in the first package, with no extras needed.

I'm raving, and diverting the thread. Sorry. To the best of my knowledge, the ESS does not support backlash correction itself. It would be a silly idea to try imho.

Cheers
Roger


I agree with it being the way of the future, now if only some one cough..artsoft...cough,cough would make a specific motion control software package for controlling industrial robots. Used robots are dirt cheap, or scrapped once the proprietary controllers take a crap. being that they are the future, a guy could make quite a few extra bucks retro fitting new controls to them. and yes you could probably do it with mach, but it would be a pain, and no one wants to be programming robots in gcode in 2016.

Offline rcaffin

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Re: Backlash not applied during manual JOG?
« Reply #45 on: July 12, 2016, 02:42:02 AM »
being that they are the future, a guy could make quite a few extra bucks retro fitting new controls to them.
Reckon.
But not with Mach. For robotics you would need to take the mass/inertia of the arms into account to control the dynamics, and Mach can NOT do that. And will not, to the best of my knowledge.

Mind you, the computers used in some of the early (I think) Pumas were DEC PDP-11s, and they were a pleasure to program. Infinitely better than an X86. Support for them would be more difficult today, although there is a huge community to call on.

Cheers
Roger

Offline dude1

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Re: Backlash not applied during manual JOG?
« Reply #46 on: July 12, 2016, 03:02:04 AM »
M3 can't do that the what ever it's called function it does not have it there is a plug a dude in south america is doing that can do that multi axis at a time stuff.

the new motion control M4 is getting one day will be able to do that sort of stuff. it's one day budget and all. apparently Linux can do that robot stuff never seen it tho

we will have Auggie to added in soon to Roger it works quite well doing 3D stuff on my little router.

I had a go at that backlash idea years ago I read up on it and that was all that happened it was to much work getting the number's correct, I just got a expensive ballscrew, nut and bearings 0.001 is good enough for me over 100 mm

Offline rcaffin

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Re: Backlash not applied during manual JOG?
« Reply #47 on: July 12, 2016, 04:04:32 AM »
Hi Dude

Mach4 - someday, but not yet.
Auggie - interesting stuff, especially on the corners, but a long way to go too.
Q: is g-code really the right way to go? I believe there is Open Source Robotics SW around whcih handles this.

Cheers
Roger

Offline dude1

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Re: Backlash not applied during manual JOG?
« Reply #48 on: July 12, 2016, 05:52:49 AM »
yep your correct fanic I robot does it to.

Auggie is a cool little program slapping a chunk of C++ code in a G code is fun, it's almost a IOT machine controller, I could get it to stop at smoko and get it to make the coffee, then start again after smoko.

it does corners on the little machine a bit better than M3 could on 3D files.

Mach4 is about the same as M3 now just some bits missing it is a little bit smother you can hear it, and it is faster, I had to up the settings on the ESS and the look ahead, the backlash comp will be out soon on the ESS. what I don't need.
I will be going to M4 when the plug for the pendent I have is done it is good enough for me now but I can't use the pendent so I won't.

I think you will be able to use backlash comp with M4 as it is faster so it can keep up

Offline rcaffin

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Re: Backlash not applied during manual JOG?
« Reply #49 on: July 12, 2016, 05:55:45 PM »
Mach4 is about the same as M3 now just some bits missing
I'll wait. M3 does what I need at present. But I will watch.

Cheers
Roger