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Offline beefy

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Re: Missing program
« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2015, 06:07:24 PM »
Thanks very much Craig,

I wonder if your New Zealand dealer ships over to Australia.

Yep, I agree that once you are making money with your toys, the extra cost for stability and reliability is well worth it. Just one unhappy customer can cost you a lot more than $750. Having a brand new new reliable board means it's not as much of a worry buying a Microsoft license because you won't be expecting to be asking to transfer the license to another PC when it stuffs up. Should be good for a few years.

I've seen the Mini-ITX site but like I say, the first thing I wonder is "Which board does Mach work great on". I've been looking into Linuxcnc a little bit and they too seem very picky about motherboards and which chipsets work great with Lcnc.

Well now I now at least one board that works.

Cheers,

Keith.
Re: Missing program
« Reply #11 on: August 01, 2015, 06:39:06 AM »
Hi Keith,
I imagine NZ supplier would be happy to supply, they are Jenlogix. I can't find on their site any mention of the Unigens product but
that is what they sold me probably as its cheaper, quite a bit cheaper, than their more usual Avantech products.
Advantech has a supplier in Aus as well, search Advantech Austrailia.

The Windows 7 Embedded Standard (WES7) runtime licence is no trivial matter. Officially if you wish to use an embedded MS
product then you have to sign an agreement with Microsoft. This makes you an OEM supplier. You get a runtime code which you
install on every unit you make and buy a little sticker for each unit they call 'certificate of authenticity'. You buy them either singly
or in blocks as you require.

In truth Jenlogix had no right to supply me with either the runtime code or the sticker, but they did. I did pay for it and it must have
been bought originally from MS, it is a holographic thingy. I have only the one machine running WES7 so I don't feel that I have
abused the technical oversight. One could of course with the one runtime code make as many systems as one desired which is
why MS are so protective of their Embedded products.

It is my belief that it is WES7 that contributes as much to the stability of the platform as the crispy new hardware.

Craig
My wife left with my best friend...
     and I miss him!

Offline beefy

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Re: Missing program
« Reply #12 on: August 01, 2015, 07:08:13 PM »
Thanks heaps for that info Craig.

After your first post where you mentioned the embedded version, I googled for it. I see there's even a Compact version which is a "real time" operating system. You might be right about the embedded version adding to stability.

With basic XP I remove / un-install / disable anything I possibly can so XP is as barebones as possible.

Seeya,

Keith.
Re: Missing program
« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2015, 03:24:53 AM »
Hi Keith,
Microsoft has released a number of embedded OS's over the years, including various compact versions. We had an automotive diagnostic/ scope
at work which was XPCe. Except for a few artefacts you couldn't tell you were operating a Windows system.
It is certainly true that a stripped down OS has a better chance of deterministic real time performance Windows has to my knowledge never
achieved it. By deterministic I mean that the OS is garanteed to respond to an event, usually an interrupt, within a certain time. Windows as it stands
can't do it.
The Mach3 pulse engine is a timer that requires service every 40us (25 kHz). If your computer is running well it will respond with 2-3us. If however another
thread/process/application has a higher priority interrupt service in progress the Mach3 starves and your machine halts. Try a viewing axis change
on the toolpath screen when running a part program and chances are you will stall the machine. The graphics processing means that the pulse engine
can't get serviced ergo Mach3 stops. When the redraw is complete and the pulse engine gets service its too late, your axis can't accelerate instantly.
The pulse engine is assigned the highest priority a application can have but Windows reserves all the highest priority levels for itself, no way around it.
I consider it a miracle that Art Fenerty was able to achieve what we have and blame none that we can't have what we want.
There are a couple of genuine real time operating systems out there, one which I think is very clever is RTX.
It runs a realtime scheduler in one (or more) cores and runs Windows in another. Whatever happens in the Windows core doesn't affect the realtime
scheduler. The Microsoft Embedded Manager in Melbourne is very enthusiastic about it, and well she might, it was going to cost $16000 to get started!!!
An external motion controller like a smoothstepper sounds very much more attractive by comparison.

Craig
My wife left with my best friend...
     and I miss him!

Offline beefy

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Re: Missing program
« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2015, 02:25:56 PM »
Thanks Craig,

any knowledge is good to have.

Been having a little play with Linuxcnc too. Seems the opposite way around with that system. The display will halt and must wait for the code to run. I especially like that latency test where you abuse the computer to see what it's worst case jitter will be. Can't have your cake and eat it though, it's a pig to learn if you want to get into customising things.

Keith.
Re: Missing program
« Reply #15 on: August 03, 2015, 03:13:26 AM »
Hi Keith,
CNC'ing has proven to be a long learning curve, first mechanical design and calcs to achieve your goals, Mach3 or
what have you as controller, motherboard/CPU/GPU and OS to run it sweetly, CAD/CAM to have decent code to run...

I built my machine initially to make PCB's but always intended that it should be able to mill steel. I made a lot of choices
along the way in order to do this, cast iron beds, steel table/column, ground ballscrews, preloaded linear rails, low backlash
planetaires with 5-phase steppers.

Have been making PCB's, aluminium and brass parts for a while now. The weekend past I tried my first steel (1045, 160HBn)
parts. It worked but NOT easy, two broken one blunted carbide tools. What I had thought rigid even overbuilt has proved to be
otherwise and my luvly German made high speed spindle looks very marginal when cutting steel. Suddenly things that I never
really had to bother with in aluminium have become important; surface speed, chipload, tool torque, tool deflection, tool wear
and the list goes on.

As I say CNC is just one long learning curve!!!

Craig
My wife left with my best friend...
     and I miss him!

Offline beefy

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Re: Missing program
« Reply #16 on: August 03, 2015, 05:35:13 AM »
Hi Craig,

if you're into making PCBs you might find my Youtube video a bit humerous. I'm using my 8' x 5' cnc plasma table to drill the holes in my etched PCB.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eb8oN5rHYxM

Keith.
Re: Missing program
« Reply #17 on: August 04, 2015, 04:04:32 PM »
Can you expand on the display will halt? 

Thanks Craig,

any knowledge is good to have.

Been having a little play with Linuxcnc too. Seems the opposite way around with that system. The display will halt and must wait for the code to run. I especially like that latency test where you abuse the computer to see what it's worst case jitter will be. Can't have your cake and eat it though, it's a pig to learn if you want to get into customising things.

Keith.

Offline beefy

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Re: Missing program
« Reply #18 on: August 05, 2015, 04:03:33 AM »
Can you expand on the display will halt?

Well, from what I've read, you can abuse the hell out of the PC by trying to make it do a zillion other things but that will not crash the running gcode. Linuxcnc runs what it is supposed to run FIRST then see to the other stuff "when it has time".

So if the screen needed updating but Lcnc was busy with something more important, the screen may appear frozen until Lcnc can attend to it.

Keith
Re: Missing program
« Reply #19 on: August 05, 2015, 07:36:41 AM »
Yes - I have heard of this.  (never experienced it though - linuxcnc is rock solid).  The trajectory planner/motion/hal/ladder in linuxcnc are running in realtime.  It takes priority over everything else.

the story is one of the first adopters of linuxcnc (emc at the time) had the screen totally lock up.  emc happily ran the rest of the gcode with no issue.  He rebooted and everything was fine.