Author Topic: DELTA-E VFD MODBUS BRAIN Help Needed  (Read 38546 times)

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Offline mbele

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Re: DELTA-E VFD MODBUS BRAIN Help Needed
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2015, 02:51:15 AM »
Let's focus just on fwd/rev/stop.
While the brain that sets p02.01 is enabled, manually setting that param on VFD will not work, since as soon as you set it, the brain resets it. It will lock p02.01 to 0, while outputs1&2 are inactive.

When you say:
Quote
I then hit the spindle button on the screen and all MODBUS outputs registered correctly. Nothing turned on brain looks correct.
I'm not 100% sure I know what you mean. I'm not native English speaker, and my screenset is completely custom, so I'm not sure which button you mean, and how "nothing turned on" is correct. That's why I suggested using M3,M4 and M5 commands via MDI. If the button you're pressing is "Spindle CW F5" on standard screenset, brain view should show a change of output1 state and the outputs of modbus terminators should read MOD:1-P0: 18.0000 and MOD:1-P2: 3.0000
Please re-check that.

I found (but I may be wrong) that the order of brains doesn't matter if you're not using the output of first brain to feed the input of second brain, which output is used as part of the input of the first brain (some sort of state lock) - and that the results of that are not consistent/dependable on. You can look at the brain as switch, it just reacts to input states and holds the output state in regards to processing done on those input states (regardless of the input state, active or inactive). Same with the modbus, it's just a "virtual memory", like a table with cells that hold some value, either Mach or VFD can read/write into those cells.

To verify that there is no error in communication, please check the value of the VFD param 09.02 "Transmission fault treatment" - it defaults to 3 ("no warning"), so set it to 2 ("warn and coast to stop") - the error, if there's one, will be displayed on digital keypad. I've noticed that you have "Use RTS for transmit" enabled on serial modbus config screen. I'm using RS232 to RS485 converter that does not need that option enabled, you may try disabling it also.

I don't quite understand what you mean by:
Quote
I set to not use the reset and still locked out.
I presume that by "locked out" you mean that you can't change the p02.01 manualy, but what you mean by "to not use reset" ?

The only things that come to my mind in regards to Mach3 or VFD settings are that the outputs 1/2 may be used by some other Mach3 feature you have enabled (mine are configured as active, port 0, pin 0, active low), and the VFD param p02.01 is being set by some VFD input - config group 04.xx (I've never changed those, all are default)

Offline techie4971

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Re: DELTA-E VFD MODBUS BRAIN Help Needed
« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2015, 11:29:44 PM »
I am still having trouble getting the VFD to respond to MODBUS Commands. I have issued the M03,M04,M05 commands and the spindle does not turn. I believe that the brains are functioning correctly. When the M03 command is issued I see the brain change the outputs to MODBUS 4,3,18 as directed by you brain config.

I set the parameter 9.02 to 2 and no errors were displayed. I also ran the VDtool from Delta and pulled all the parameters. I also toggled the RTS check-box and nothing changed.

When i mention that I am locked out means that once Mach3 is running the commands at the VFD keypad stay locked at 2.01 = 0,  2.01 = 0. They can not be change with Mach3 3 running.  I can change them when testing Modbus but when I close the test they go back to 0.  I am wondering if  Mach3 or something else could be setting them to 0.

I went into Ports and Pins and matched your settings 0,0,Active Low.  Still no change. 

I know computer control over the VFD works because I used the VDtools software to control the motor.  I know that the modbus test is working in Mach3 because I can turn on the spindle.  As soon as I stop it goes to back to 0 for 2.00 and 2.01. I have made so many changes to both the VFD and Mach3 I need to attach the images and parameters.


Offline techie4971

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Re: DELTA-E VFD MODBUS BRAIN Help Needed
« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2015, 11:48:19 PM »
Here are the parameters pulled from the VFD after I test and close MACH3.

Offline techie4971

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Re: DELTA-E VFD MODBUS BRAIN Help Needed
« Reply #13 on: February 07, 2015, 11:51:09 PM »
Here are the revised ports and pins configurations.

Offline techie4971

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Re: DELTA-E VFD MODBUS BRAIN Help Needed
« Reply #14 on: February 08, 2015, 12:01:06 AM »
Here is the MODBUS and Brain operation.

Offline mbele

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Re: DELTA-E VFD MODBUS BRAIN Help Needed
« Reply #15 on: February 08, 2015, 06:03:08 AM »
Quote
When i mention that I am locked out means that once Mach3 is running the commands at the VFD keypad stay locked at 2.01 = 0,  2.01 = 0. They can not be change with Mach3 3 running.  I can change them when testing Modbus but when I close the test they go back to 0.  I am wondering if  Mach3 or something else could be setting them to 0.
...
When i mention that I am locked out means that once Mach3 is running the commands at the VFD keypad stay locked at 2.01 = 0,  2.01 = 0. They can not be change with Mach3 3 running.  I can change them when testing Modbus but when I close the test they go back to 0.  I am wondering if  Mach3 or something else could be setting them to 0.
That's normal behavior if the brain is enabled. Try disabling the brain, change those params via modbus test feature and/or manually via VFD keypad while mach is running, and see if they change back. If they do not change back to 0, then it's the brain who is changing it back to 0. Prove that by enabling the brain and check the params again. If they do change back to 0 while the brain is disabled, then something else changes them - but that's highly unlikely.
Brain constantly(every 250ms in your case) writes 0 to p02.01 when the outputs1&2 are inactive, or 3 when either of those two outputs is active.

I've attached screenshots of my config - please compare to your settings. There are differences, but I'm not sure if they matter (eg. serial timeout, outputs active low settings, motor output-spindle enabled, spindle setup-motor control...)

When debugging, it's important to change only one thing at a time and reduce the number of variables to minimum.
You could test if you can change VFD param via modbus using brain: disable all brains, create and enable brain that uses some onscreen led as input and writes something to some VFD param, for example:
[input LED: 815 - softlimits on]->[no-operation]->[formula: a]->[modbus: MOD:1-P:4 (create cfg#4: address 776 - p03.08/fan control)]
clicking the softlimits button should change the value of fan control param. If that does not work, step back, and try it manually using serial modbus test feature.

Offline techie4971

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Re: DELTA-E VFD MODBUS BRAIN Help Needed
« Reply #16 on: February 09, 2015, 04:02:54 PM »
I have done a few tests and I can manually set the VFD P2.00 to 4 and P2.01 to 3. I can operate Delta’s VD tools and the commands stays in the VFD. I load Mach3 and instantly the parameters both switch to 0. Which should be normal with the brain enabled.  I go to brain control, disable all brains, and close Mach3.  I then set the VFD parameters again to P2.00 to 4 and P2.01 to 3 and open Mach3 and once again the settings on the VFD are set back to 0.  I confirm from brain control to that no brains are enabled. They are not enabled.  I can open the serial Modbus test and set P2.00 and P2.01 and spin the motor.  Once I close down the test window, they are set back to zero.

My tests review:
VFD parameters are set P2.00 to 4 and P2.01 to 3
Parameters remain set using and closing VDTools.
Mach 3 is launched with no brains enabled and VFD is set to P2.00 to 0 and P2.01 to 0

I cannot seem to find anything that is causing this activity. I think it has to be something in Mach3, because Delta’s VDTools has no issues. 

I believe that the reset to 0 is the reason that I cannot issue commands from Mach3 brains.  Is it possible that the VFD has disabled the RS-485 connectivity by something when Mach3 starts up?  I changed the communications port to 4 and same issued occurred.

Could the VFD be resetting the parameter to 0 when a communication timeout occurs. Like VFD times out before command is issued by Mach3.  Like Mach3 opens port but VFD is no longer waiting and defaults to 0. 

You are correct there is very little changes in your configuration when compared to mine.  I went ahead and matched your configuration to mine assuming that one of those little changes could have made some major difference. I was thinking that the timeouts on the VFD could have expired on the VFD and then it goes to manual operation. I don’t know how Mach3 could be sending the information to disable P2.00 and P2.01. 

I tired the following brain suggestion and nothing happened.  This is what is pointing me to a possible VFD timeout or command failure issue.   
[input LED: 815 - softlimits on]->[no-operation]->[formula: a]->[modbus: MOD:1-P:4 (create cfg#4: address 776 - p03.08/fan control)]

I think my next steps for testing is to take out all serial Modbus configurations and set the VFD P2.00 and P2.01 and open Mach3 and see if the changes occur.  I think if I can determine if it is Mach3 or the VFD I can focus on the problem area. If the problem still occurs after removing the serial Modbus configuration. I will remove and reinstall Mach3 and start over. 

I am open to any suggestions if you have any you think I should try.

Offline mbele

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Re: DELTA-E VFD MODBUS BRAIN Help Needed
« Reply #17 on: February 09, 2015, 09:52:05 PM »
It's a long shot, but try using modbus address 0 instead of 1 in brain terminator. It doesn't make sense, but I've just checked, and all my original brains use address 0.  I think that address "0" means that mach will "broadcast a message" to all modbus slaves, but there can also be missmatch between indexing systems, where one system uses "0" based indexes, and another "1" based indexes...

Quote
Mach 3 is launched with no brains enabled and VFD is set to P2.00 to 0 and P2.01 to 0
This is the key, it shows that something in mach is responsible.

Maybe before taking out all the params, you could try turning off "ModBus Run" option on "ModBus Configuration" screen and/or disabling "ModBus InputOutput Support" on "Ports and pins" screen. This would show if the modbus plugin is doing this or some other part of mach.

Before uninstalling, try a fresh install on another PC, if you have that option. When I got the VFD, I did all the serial modbus experiments with plain mach3 install on my notebook PC, just to figure how all this works, and then copied relevant settings to the shop PC.
If you do uninstall, be sure to backup your xml file and all the custom stuff.
I'm running Mach version R3.042.020.


Offline techie4971

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Re: DELTA-E VFD MODBUS BRAIN Help Needed
« Reply #18 on: February 11, 2015, 09:36:48 AM »
First thing I did was change the modbus address to 0 in the brain terminator.  No change on on the VFD.

The next thing was to turn off the "Run Modbus"  in the Modbus configuration.  I could set the VFD manually. I quit Mach3 and re started it and there was no change to the VFD settings.  So I need modbus run check to enable the modbus.  I then set modbus run and the VFD setting reverted to 0 on p2.00 and p2.01.

I went into ports and pins and then disabled "Modbus Input/Output Support" , I was able to set the VFD, but once again it reverted back to 0 when "Modbus Support was checked"

I then got another laptop running 32 bit  and downloaded and installed Mach3 and setup the comm port to 4 and matched your settings for the baud rate. I set the VFD on p2.00 and p2.01 to 4 and 3.  The VFD keeps the settings and once "Run Modbus" or "Modbus Input/Output Support" is checked the VFD goes to 0.  

I also tested with serial modbus and it of coarse worked. After I entered 512 to 4 and 513  to 4 and 8192 to 18.  Once I close the comm port, I noticed the VFD sets to 0.  When I open the comm port I have to enter them in to turn the spindle.

I tried the attached brain. On failure I changed the terminator to 0 and received the same response.

Something is messing up on either the VFD or Something from Mach3 serial control is throwing an error.

I know this is a lot to ask. Is there a way you can use Delta's VDTools to read the parameters from your VFD and send me the file for comparison.

I think that somehow the VFD is getting some sort of timeout or is wired incorrectly and by default sets to 0 for manual operation.  

I am using a Delta VFD-E. I have manual controls for VFD on/off,  Fwd/Off/Rev, Emergency stop. There are two switches set to ACI and PNP.

I attached the pictures of VFD. I have to take off the keypad to install the cover.



  




 


Offline Ya-Nvr-No

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Re: DELTA-E VFD MODBUS BRAIN Help Needed
« Reply #19 on: February 11, 2015, 11:46:38 AM »
Sorry I'm a little new to this thread and issue, but where is the modbus connections and it looks like your switched for current but supplying 0-10v

I just bought a Delta EL and have just started looking into how to implement it for my needs, so am viewing your thread with interest.

Just that what I see in your photo made me scratch my head. Maybe I'm missing something from what I read in the document that came with my drive!

Hell I might be all wet, as I just put power to it to see if it at least spins my motor. It does... now to figure out how I want to control it. So I hope you get your issue figured out.